Formula 1 2020/2021: Shits getting crazier

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

37 minutes ago, lessthanluke said:

Today was the first race I've watched in years because of all the hype. Honestly the shambles of the ending has put me off ever watching it again. Yes it was dramatic but as a fair sporting contest? Just nonsense.

I guess I'm too much of a noob to really comment with any knowledge, but it has felt like there have been a lot of shenanigans throughout the season. 

[polishgenius]

It has definitely been clear throughout the season that Masi is not half the race director Charlie Whiting was.

[Werthead]

22 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

It has definitely been clear throughout the season that Masi is not half the race director Charlie Whiting was.

Not helped by this being the first season we've heard the interactions between Race Control and the teams.

[Wouter]

The origin of the problem for me is the introduction (years ago IIRC) of the the rule that allows lapped cars to unlap themselves after a safety car. The intent was always to spice up the show, but a safety car already robs the race leader(s) of their advantage and on top of that, lapped cars that were in between them and their direct pursuers are removed (and may in turn, gain a lap over their own pursuers in the process). All so we can get an exciting race finish. It may work in a period of complete domination as it is a chance to get an unexpected winner, but the intent of the rule (though apparently not the wording) was followed.

IMO the unlap thing under SC should be removed.

Both drivers deserved the championship. Hamilton was robbed today, but then Verstappen had more bad luck over the season before this (particulatly Baku and Hungary). A pity that only one can win. Great season though.

[6649er]

Quote

My takeaway here is they should have red-flagged it and seen what would happen with both cars on softs from a restart with five laps to go

I don't think they could have restarted under the rules. With only 5 laps left they would have been forced to declare it there.

[lmanion]

I honestly hate the red flag and restart rules especially being able to make changes to the car, fix things and change tyres during a red flag. It punishes the teams trying to make the race and helps those who have made bad decisions. Personally I think red flag should be parc ferme conditions and you take the restart in the same condition you were in at the red flag.

There is the option to not allow cars to unlap themselves bit once they chose to let cars go all lapped cars have to go and the safety car has to stay out for another lap after the lapped cars are allowed to pass. It's kind of all or nothing as the rules are written but I'm guessing because the race director took the decision the FIA would say that his ruling can override the written procedure. 

I find it hard to feel sorry for Merc the way Toto conducts himself when things don't go his way. Red Bull and Max are certainly no saints either but in this case they can only play the hand they are dealt. The main takeaway from the race overall for me is this track is still a borefest of a track for a season finale even with the changes and it took some extraordinary circumstances in the stewards room to make it memorable.

[kungtotte]

5 hours ago, 6649er said:

I don't think they could have restarted under the rules. With only 5 laps left they would have been forced to declare it there.

They have done short restarts in the past, it would have been permissible under the rules.

[baxus]

18 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

If you wrote up a summary of the season and handed it in as a screenplay, nobody would think it was realistic. What a finish. F1 has gained so many new fans over the last year and the sport will continue to grow moving forward. 

While it was rather dramatic, a fair bit of the drama was for absolutely wrong reasons. Crashes, racing incidents, time penalties and all that are part of the sport and are a part of what makes people like it (or not). On the other hand, there have been some major fiascos that had nothing to do with what happened on the track. Except for yesterday's race finish, the race in Belgium is the first things that comes to mind. That's 2 races that have been directly influenced by "administration" rather than drivers and engineers.

I was watching F1 rather regularly in my high school years (days of Schumacher-Haakinen rivalry), then kind of faded out as Ferrari became more and more dominant and never got back to it until some point during this season. The main factor for coming back was that Netflix docuseries, not racing itself. Racing and drama did help, but what went on yesterday did more harm than good.

15 hours ago, lessthanluke said:

Today was the first race I've watched in years because of all the hype. Honestly the shambles of the ending has put me off ever watching it again. Yes it was dramatic but as a fair sporting contest? Just nonsense.

The ending was a disgrace. Now, I'm not up to speed with the rules and regulations and I think both Hamilton's eight title and Verstappen's first would've been equally spectacular so I'm saying this purely as an observer and a potential regular spectator in the future - decisions made by "referees" were not just wrong but also stupid to the point of me wondering if the people making them needed legal guardians.

I don't know if the rules say red flag was due, or finishing the race behind the safety car, or letting lapped cars get back into the same lap or not, or whatever. What I did see is "referees" not knowing what they're doing and trying to improvise which completely backfired.

Hamilton was the better driver up until the safety car came on track, he was clearly ahead, everything was going in his favour. Then a crash and a safety car and laps behind the safety car, "lapped cars stay where you are", "lapped cars overtake safety car, and race is on, GO!". It was very confusing to watch and the way those decisions clearly affected who ended up as the winner and champion left a bad taste in my mouth. Once again, not talking as a Hamilton fan, just a potential fan of the sport.

15 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I guess I'm too much of a noob to really comment with any knowledge, but it has felt like there have been a lot of shenanigans throughout the season. 

Shenanigans are not a good thing in sport, especially when they come from outside the track/pitch/court etc.

[kungtotte]

I'm not a lawyer, but from my reading of the rules they completely went against them yesterday.

There's no hard rule about when a red flag restart should occur other than when the race director deems it appropriate. The rules as written has no provision at all for letting just some lapped car unlap themselves, and the format of the messages from race control don't follow the rules either.

Finishing under yellow is both allowed and has precedent from this very season (Belgian GP), having a red flag restart close to the end is also allowed and has precedent. The race director may keep lapped cars in the line or release them as the situation dictates but he can't do a partial release.

 

What they should have done is an immediate red flag to restart with 5 laps left, immediately released lapped cars, or run the SC to the finish line. Those are all within the rules and would make for a fair and uncontested ending to the season.

[lmanion]

There was really no reason to red flag this race. A red flag is not a 'sporting' decision it is pretty much purely a safety decision. There are very few reasons to throw a red flag and the possibility of finishing under yellow flags is not one of them.

Safety barriers that need to be fixed after a crash like in Saudi, a big crash requiring medical intervention, the track being blocked or the track conditions being too unsafe for cars to be out there racing. These are the only reasons to throw a red flag and have been for as long as I can remember.

[baxus]

I didn't mean to imply that any solution, red flag included, was the right one since I lack the required knowledge of the rules.

It's just that the end of the race seemed too chaotic because the race director didn't seem to know what he was doing.

Even if his decisions were 100% correct, the way he made them and the way they were announced was completely wrong.

[lessthanluke]

38 minutes ago, baxus said:

I didn't mean to imply that any solution, red flag included, was the right one since I lack the required knowledge of the rules.

It's just that the end of the race seemed too chaotic because the race director didn't seem to know what he was doing.

Even if his decisions were 100% correct, the way he made them and the way they were announced was completely wrong.

Yeah exactly this.

[Wilbur]

It seemed like the admins got stuck in between "competition" mode and "safety" mode, and then made decisions without clarity of thought.  I doubt that allowing the teams to communicate directly to the admins during decision time helped them make better decisions, either.

[Werthead]

3 hours ago, Wilbur said:

It seemed like the admins got stuck in between "competition" mode and "safety" mode, and then made decisions without clarity of thought.  I doubt that allowing the teams to communicate directly to the admins during decision time helped them make better decisions, either.

To be fair, the teams have always been able to communicate with Race Control (but not the stewards). This was the first year that 1) those communications are public and 2) they know those communications are going to be made public. Apparently this has helped in the sense that some team principals and staff used to be a lot more vigorous in their complaints to Race Control and have now calmed down a bit because they don't want to sound like dickheads to the public. But it has put undue scrutiny on Masi in a way that his late predecessor never had to endure.

[williamjm]

One thing that I haven't seen mentioned much is the contrasting effectiveness of the team-mates. Perez did a lot for Max in  giving a tow in qualifying and holding up a flying Hamilton in the race. On the other hand Bottas had one of his more anonymous races, he should really have been glued to Hamilton's rear wing for the final lap restart but instead he was out of the picture. Perhaps it wouldn't have made a difference in the end, but Verstappen having to pass not one but two Mercedes on the last lap could have been crucial.

[baxus]

The moment it was announced Bottas would be moving to another team at the end of the season he ran out of all the fucks to give.

[Wilbur]

19 hours ago, Werthead said:

...some team principals and staff used to be a lot more vigorous in their complaints to Race Control and have now calmed down a bit because they don't want to sound like dickheads to the public...

Too late.

[Werthead]

 

[Werthead]

Lewis Hamilton has confirmed he will decide on his F1 future after the FIA wraps up their Abu Dhabi enquiry.

Other reports that Mercedes has made a deal with the FIA to replace Michael Masi as director for the next season with a promise that regulations will be much more universally applied with an eye to sporting fairness than "the spectacle." It also sounds like the team principles will no longer be able to communicate with the race director mid-races, and lines of communication between Race Control and the team pitwalls may be restricted to safety concerns only. They may also stop broadcasting communications between the teams and the race director.

Alain Prost thinks it's only 50-50 that Hamilton will continue, citing the possibility that Hamilton may retire or take a year off to focus on other things. If so, it's unclear who would replace Hamilton since almost all the other options are under contracts and Mercedes would have to pay a ton of cash to free them up, even more if it's only for a one-year deal. Mercedes reserve drivers Nyck de Vries and Stoffel Vandoorne are both in Formula E which starts in a couple of weeks, so recruiting either of them would be problematic as well (de Vries seems much more likely than Vandoorne). If Hamilton goes for good, Mercedes are probably minded to pay top dollar to buy out Esteban Ocon from Alpine. That could be interesting if Alpine get a one-year temp as Gasly is reportedly interested in moving to the French Alpine team if Red Bull don't promote him back after next season.

A simpler option would be to recruit someone with recent F1 experience but not on the grid next year straight back into the sport. Giovinazzi is also in Formula E, Raikkonen and Kubica I think are definitely done (though even Raikkonen might think twice if offered to sit in a Merc), but of course, one option would remain.

Most likely, Hamilton will be back on the grid, though, and I think the current uncertainty is more of a move by Mercedes to get the changes they want.

[Werthead]

I suspected this would happen. Honda have reversed course on their decision to leave Formula One. They will now continue to supply Red Bull and AlphaTauri until at least the end of the 2025 season.

Red Bull now plan to have their new Red Bull Powertrains facility engaged in R&D for the next four years with a view to taking over supply in 2026.

Given that Honda's departure led to all of the F1 teams agreeing to freeze all power development for the next four years, putting the teams with less power at a disadvantage (Alpine and potentially Ferrari/Haas/Alfa Romeo), I suspect this reverse course is going to be very poorly received by some of the teams, though it is to Mercedes and Red Bull's advantage.