Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 19

[LynnS]

50 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

A weirwood connection was what I thought as well, considering how ancient old nan is, perhaps she developed an affinity to the tree or that affinity may be the reason she was able to grow so old. The really old characters we see have some connection to places of magic, Maester Aemon for example is at the wall which is full of magical wards, Ghost of High Heart is another example.

This is a good explanation.  I wonder if Old Nan is the three-eyed crone. 

[LynnS]

43 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

A snake shark? A sea monster then? Another name for a sea dragon perhaps? Or is the snark itself is not important but is there to make a connection to Lewis Caroll poem?

Euron Greyjoy strikes me as both a snake and a shark. Or Victarion.

[Corvo the Crow]

1 hour ago, LynnS said:

Euron Greyjoy strikes me as both a snake and a shark. Or Victarion.

One of their ships was named Shark. Could it be important as the word Shark is mentioned only a handful of times in the series.

[Corvo the Crow]

Quote

The bride was garbed in white and grey, the colors the true Arya would have worn had she lived long enough to wed. Theon wore black and gold, his cloak pinned to his shoulder by a crude iron kraken that a smith in Barrowton had hammered together for him. But under the hood, his hair was white and thin, and his flesh had an old man's greyish undertone. A Starkat last, he thought. Arm in arm, the bride and he passed through an arched stone door, as wisps of fog stirred round their legs. The drum was as tremulous as a maiden's heart, the pipes high and sweet and beckoning. Up above the treetops, a crescent moon was floating in a dark sky, half-obscured by mist, like an eye peering through a veil of silk.

A Stark at last. His description could be important I think, but how

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

A Stark at last. His description could be important I think, but how

Oh!  Perfect!

[Seams]

19 hours ago, LynnS said:

Grumkin is a combination of the words grum meaning glum and grim and kin. grum-kin.  But what of the Snark?  It's taken from the poem by Lewis Caroll's The Hunting of the Snark, a terrifying creature named after the boojum tree. 

A snark turns out to be a combination of the words shark and snake. 

I took a swipe at explaining grumkins in 2016, but it's just a theory. No one came up with a solid explanation for snarks in the brief discussion that followed.

On this second glance at grumkins, I am struck by the fact that grumkins can make things. This would put them in the category of smiths. Before he dies, Donal Noye "gives" Jon Snow the Wall:

Quote

"Jon, you have the Wall till I return."

For a moment Jon thought he had misheard. It had sounded as if Noye were leaving him in command. "My lord?"

"Lord? I'm a blacksmith. I said, the Wall is yours."

(ASoS, Jon VIII)

 

22 hours ago, LynnS said:

I wonder why Old Nan can smell magic besides the obvious that the blind have other senses that become heightened as a result of blindness.  How does she identify the smell of magic or dragons.  I wonder if she can breach the veil between the worlds or does the weirwood of Winterfell remember the smell of dragons? 

We might gain insights into Old Nan's sense of smell by examining characters such as Gared, whose ears were lost to frostbite (but were apparently surgically removed by Maester Aemon); Dywen, who can smell cold; Tyrion's nose being cut off by Ser Mandon Moore; Arya's interlude as Blind Beth; Chella of the Black Ears mountain clan and Timmet son of Timmet who puts out his own eye. The Hound has also lost an ear as part of the wounds from being burned by his brother.

I'm particularly intrigued by the clues in Gared's story, though, as the frostbite injuries to his hand and foot are similar to the ways that Ramsay maimed Theon's hands. There is a memorable moment in Theon's recollections of life at Winterfell where he runs into Old Nan - from a literary analysis perspective, symbolically, Theon and Old Nan may be united as one entity during this collision. So I'm curious to ponder parallels in the heightened and sacrificed senses that might tell us how Gared, Theon and Old Nan perceive the world. 

Quote

"I've had the cold in me too, lordling." Gared pulled back his hood, giving Ser Waymar a good long look at the stumps where his ears had been. "Two ears, three toes, and the little finger off my left hand. I got off light. We found my brother frozen at his watch, with a smile on his face."

Ser Waymar shrugged. "You ought dress more warmly, Gared."

Gared glared at the lordling, the scars around his ear holes flushed red with anger where Maester Aemon had cut the ears away. "We'll see how warm you can dress when the winter comes." He pulled up his hood and hunched over his garron, silent and sullen.

 

[Corvo the Crow]

13 hours ago, LynnS said:

This is a good explanation.  I wonder if Old Nan is the three-eyed crone. 

crone - Wiktionary

So apparently, crone is related to carrion. Which bird is associated with carrions, if not crows?

[Jaenara Belarys]

2 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

So apparently, crone is related to carrion. Which bird is associated with carrions, if not crows?

Ravens? Vultures? 

[LynnS]

23 hours ago, Seams said:

On this second glance at grumkins, I am struck by the fact that grumkins can make things. This would put them in the category of smiths.

I'm starting to thinks that snarks and grumkins are generic terms.  A grumkin seems to be someone who is a magic user or sorcerer who can either make magical objects or use magical objects.  Mel certainly tops my list with her rubies.  She does magic up Stannis' sword,  which Catelyn observes as having a great square-cut ruby in it's hilt.  We also see a great square-cut ruby in Mance's manacle and these are slaved to Mel's own ruby.  So when Mormont ask if Jon has a grumkin in his pocket to magic up his sword; this seems to refer to both the magical object and the services of one who can use it.

I think the source of Mel's magic is her fiery heart since the ruby at her throat is often described as pulsing like a heart beat.  That may be confirmed with Mance describing the burning sensation he feels from the ruby at his wrist.

So I also wonder about the source of Mel's power or how she renews her own life force since fire consumes.  I'm guessing that her fiery sacrifices have less to do with pleasing R'hllor and more to do with maintaining her own life force.  She could be the real soul-eater.  The more power or life-force she expends with her magic, the more she has to consume.  The younger the sacrifice, the greater the life-force.  As Gilly says, newborns stink of life.

Snarks are a little harder to define.  They are terrifying, imaginary beasts that one can hunt.  I suspect snark is a generic term for wargs and skinchangers.

[Corvo the Crow]

Dany is the daughter of Ashara and Lynesse!

 

 

[Corvo the Crow]

46 minutes ago, LynnS said:

So I also wonder about the source of Mel's power or how she renews her own life force since fire consumes.  I'm guessing that her fiery sacrifices have less to do with pleasing R'hllor and more to do with maintaining her own life force.  She could be the real soul-eater.  The more power or life-force she expends with her magic, the more she has to consume.  The younger the sacrifice, the greater the life-force.  As Gilly says, newborns stink of life.

That's why she doesn't eat or dress warmer clothes at the wall. Nice observation.

[LynnS]

30 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

That's why she doesn't eat or dress warmer clothes at the wall. Nice observation.

Well it's -18 centigrade today where I live and not a dragon to be had.  So I'll be making chili this afternoon.

[Corvo the Crow]

What does Catelyn, Beric and Melisandre have in common?

Red hair.

Catelyn has auburn (red + brown) hair(but it becomes white after staying in the river for so long), Beric has red-gold hair and Melisandre, copper lile red hair.

Although we don't know Beric's, Mel have red eyes and Cat's eyes become " e two red pits burning in the shadows"  So perhaps some support for Mel being a "fire wight?"

 

[LynnS]

On 1/2/2022 at 12:38 PM, Seams said:

So I'm curious to ponder parallels in the heightened and sacrificed senses that might tell us how Gared, Theon and Old Nan perceive the world. 

I like Corvo's idea that the longer you live in a place with powerful magics, the more affected or changed you are by it. That would be a more passive use of magic than what Mel proposes.  Her magic is increasing just by proxomity to the Wall, but tells Jon he can actually use it.

Theon is so mentally and physically damaged that the veil between worlds has become very thin.  His senses are heightened in other ways beyond the physical senses.

Edited January 3, 2022 by LynnS

[Corvo the Crow]

45 minutes ago, LynnS said:

I like Corvo's idea that the longer you live in a place with powerful magics, the more affected or changed you are by it. That would be a more passive use of magic than what Mel proposes.  Her magic is increasing just by proxomity to the Wall, but tells Jon he can actually use it.

Theon is so mentally and physically damaged that the veil between worlds has become very thin.  His senses are heightened in other ways beyond the physical senses.

The characters affected are more susceptible, I think, and Theon could be a good example: I don't recall Cat and Ned having any dreams of importance in that weirwood bed but Theon sees a feast of the dead, including Brandon, Lyanna and Rickard, people he has never seen and many Starks long dead, judging by the description of "half seen pale shades with long grim faces" Not only does he see them but the dream is prophetic with Grey Wind and Robb joining the feast as well.

Quote

King Robert sat with his guts spilling out on the table from the great gash in his belly, and Lord Eddard was headless beside him. Corpses lined the benches below, grey-brown flesh sloughing off their bones as they raised their cups to toast, worms crawling in and out of the holes that were their eyes. He knew them, every one; Jory Cassel and Fat Tom, Porther and Cayn and Hullen the master of horse, and all the others who had ridden south to King's Landing never to return. Mikken and Chayle sat together, one dripping blood and the other water. Benfred Tallhart and his Wild Hares filled most of a table. The miller's wife was there as well, and Farlen, even the wildling Theon had killed in the wolfswood the day he had saved Bran's life.

But there were others with faces he had never known in life, faces he had seen only in stone. The slim, sad girl who wore a crown of pale blue roses and a white gown spattered with gore could only be Lyanna. Her brother Brandon stood beside her, and their father Lord Rickard just behind. Along the walls figures half-seen moved through the shadows, pale shades with long grim faces. The sight of them sent fear shivering through Theon sharp as a knife. And then the tall doors opened with a crash, and a freezing gale blew down the hall, and Robb came walking out of the night. Grey Wind stalked beside, eyes burning, and man and wolf alike bled from half a hundred savage wounds.

Also worth noting would be the lack of Benjen. 

 

Suffering serious trauma also helps as are the cases with Jojen and Bran. Which makes me think, once he is awake again, what powers will Jon have? He already lives in a place of powerful magic, but not just that, he was already a warg so powerful that he was able to "hear" Ghost, despite Ghost being a mute.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Corvo the Crow

[LynnS]

3 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

That's why she doesn't eat or dress warmer clothes at the wall. Nice observation.

I'm also reminded of the Fiery Hands of R'hllor:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Tyrion VII

Benerro's high voice carried well. Tall and thin, he had a drawn face and skin white as milk. Flames had been tattooed across his cheeks and chin and shaven head to make a bright red mask that crackled about his eyes and coiled down and around his lipless mouth. "Is that a slave tattoo?" asked Tyrion.

The knight nodded. "The red temple buys them as children and makes them priests or temple prostitutes or warriors. Look there." He pointed at the steps, where a line of men in ornate armor and orange cloaks stood before the temple's doors, clasping spears with points like writhing flames. "The Fiery Hand. The Lord of Light's sacred soldiers, defenders of the temple."

Fire knights. "And how many fingers does this hand have, pray?

"One thousand. Never more, and never less. A new flame is kindled for every one that gutters out."

 

So these fiery hands burn out like candles and have to be replaced.

The spears with points like writhing flames reminds me of glass candles and what could be done with obsidian spear points.

Quaithe knows the trick of it and I'm betting that Mel does too.

Quote

A Storm of Swords - Samwell V

The king gave that a curt nod, as if to say he knew and did not care. "You slew this creature with an obsidian dagger, I am told," he said to Sam.

"Y-yes, Your Grace. Jon Snow gave it to me."

"Dragonglass." The red woman's laugh was music. "Frozen fire, in the tongue of old Valyria. Small wonder it is anathema to these cold children of the Other

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by LynnS

[Fool Stands On Giant’s Toe]

On 1/1/2022 at 11:12 AM, LynnS said:

Maddened by the smell of dragon

Ty. Did not know about frog

[Corvo the Crow]

The red haired Melony Piper, who was slain in battle beneath the god's eye, is the only character to be named so... well perhaps with the exception of one other, red haired character.

Quote

The red priestess shuddered. Blood trickled down her thigh, black and smoking. The fire was inside her, an agony, an ecstasy, filling her, searing her, transforming her. Shimmers of heat traced patterns on her skin, insistent as a lover's hand. Strange voices called to her from days long past. "Melony," she heard a woman cry. A man's voice called, "Lot Seven." She was weeping, and her tears were flame. And still she drank it in.

Dawn. Another day is given us, R'hllor be praised. The terrors of the night recede. Melisandre had spent the night in her chair by the fire, as she often did. With Stannis gone, her bed saw little use. She had no time for sleep, with the weight of the world upon her shoulders. And she feared to dream. Sleep is a little death, dreams the whisperings of the Other, who would drag us all into his eternal night. She would sooner sit bathed in the ruddy glow of her red lord's blessed flames, her cheeks flushed by the wash of heat as if by a lover's kisses. Some nights she drowsed, but never for more than an hour. One day, Melisandre prayed, she would not sleep at all. One day she would be free of dreams. Melony, she thought. Lot Seven.

 

[The Bard of Banefort]

I was reading through Tyrion’s last AGOT chapter, and there are two interesting things I took note of:

1. Gregor speaks. Coherently. Mind=blown 

2. Tywin calls Varys a “cockless wonder.” That’s just hilarious.

[Corvo the Crow]

Quote

"The black wool cloak of a Sworn Brother of the Night's Watch," said the King-beyond-the-Wall. "One day on a ranging we brought down a fine big elk. We were skinning it when the smell of blood drew a shadow-cat out of its lair. I drove it off, but not before it shredded my cloak to ribbons. Do you see? Here, here, and here?" He chuckled. "It shredded my arm and back as well, and I bled worse than the elk. My brothers feared I might die before they got me back to Maester Mullin at the Shadow Tower, so they carried me to a wildling village where we knew an old wisewoman did some healing. She was dead, as it happened, but her daughter saw to me. Cleaned my wounds, sewed me up, and fed me porridge and potions until I was strong enough to ride again. And she sewed up the rents in my cloak as well, with some scarlet silk from Asshai that her grandmother had pulled from the wreck of a cog washed up on the Frozen Shore. It was the greatest treasure she had, and her gift to me." He swept the cloak back over his shoulders. "But at the Shadow Tower, I was given a new wool cloak from stores, black and black, and trimmed with black, to go with my black breeches and black boots, my black doublet and black mail. The new cloak had no frays nor rips nor tears . . . and most of all, no red. The men of the Night's Watch dressed in black, Ser Denys Mallister reminded me sternly, as if I had forgotten. My old cloak was fit for burning now, he said.

Ranger from Shadow Tower is attacked by a Shadowcat, is gravely wounded, nursed back to health by a wisewoman who mends his cloak with silk from Asshai, Asshai which is called Asshai-by-the-Shadow, Asshai where little grows save ghost grass and most animals die as soon as they are brought from other places?

Quote

An account by Archmaester Marwyn confirms reports that no man rides in Asshai, be he warrior, merchant, or prince. There are no horses in Asshai, no elephants, no mules, no donkeys, no zorses, no camels, no dogs. Such beasts, when brought there by ship, soon die. The malign influence of the Ash and its polluted waters have been implicated, as it is well understood from Harmon's On Miasmas that animals are more sensitive to the foulness exuded by such waters, even without drinking them. Septon Barth's writings speculate more wildly, referring to the higher mysteries with little evidence.

And there are no children in Asshai.

Despite its forbidding aspects, Asshai-by-the-Shadow has for many centuries been a thriving port, where ships from all over the known world come to trade, crossing vast and stormy seas. Most arrive laden with foodstuffs and wine, for beyond the walls of Asshai little grows save ghost grass, whose glassy, glowing stalks are inedible. If not for the food brought in from across the sea, the Asshai'i would have starved.

 

Why do all these sound awfully suspicious to me? Catelyn and Berric may not be the only firewights we've seen. The healer's mother was probably from Asshai as well came together with the silk and taught the arts to her daughter.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Corvo the Crow