Wow, I never noticed that. Vol. 19

[The Bard of Banefort]

34 minutes ago, Seams said:

I think there may be anagram wordplay in the name Cregan Stark involving the word "stranger".

He might be the embodiment of a Winter King - a northern version of the "Stranger" - unleashed on Westeros during the Dance. 

That’s a great catch!

There was a Cregard, so maybe that should count.

I always found it weird that there were never any other Visenyas, but I think FnB cleared that up pretty well. 

[TheLastWolf]

3 hours ago, EggBlue said:

12 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

There was only one Cregan Stark.

I thought Cregan might be popular , he sure seemed like a badass... 

Maybe just having one Cregan adds to his badassery. Aemon the Dragon knight didn't say for nothing who his best sword opponent was. 

3 hours ago, EggBlue said:

well.... Sansa will marry a Ned if that means anything!  

Arya has already met him then. Edric Dayne, next wielder of Dawn. 

[EggBlue]

39 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Silly EggBlue, Whoresbane’s first name is Hother, not Edric!

we shall see! 

ps. check out Artworks thread. I put something you'd like...well.. you , Corvo and Loras Tyrell:) 

39 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

 

I forgot Daemon had a son named after him. In my defense, he wasn’t on the family tree. He probably did like and respect the Dragonknight though. Even Daeron II seemed to have liked Daemon when he was younger.

In my head canon , Daemon B was actually a good guy forced in an impossible situation . so yeah , I think he probably had more relationship with Aemon -hero of all- than his absent selfish father.

39 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

It wouldn’t surprise me if Aegon let Daenaera name all of the kids herself.

yeah.. the guy was sensitive 

39 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Good catch with Baela and Rhaena.

tnx

39 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

George may have only had one Cregan for the same reason he only had one Rhaegar and Rhaenyra, to make them unique. (Multiple Daeneryses though, curiously).

you're probably right

39 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

The tinfoil is strong in this one. 

Don’t come for my guy Viserys. He spent his entire life cleaning up his idiot relatives’ messes, from the time he was as a teenager. He was more fit to rule than all of them.

agreed... almost. it would have been great if he either supported his poor niece's crown or disinherited his son in favor of his grandson...

 

12 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Arya has already met him then. Edric Dayne, next wielder of Dawn. 

finally , someone with good shipping sense they'll even be parallel to Ashara the desirable maid and Shy Ned! 

[Megorova]

59 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Don’t come for my guy Viserys. He spent his entire life cleaning up his idiot relatives’ messes, from the time he was as a teenager. He was more fit to rule than all of them.

He was a monster, he did horrible things, even worse than his uncle. You'll see later.

"When Willam Stackspear suggested that perhaps she was part of the reward the Volantene had been promised, Lady Cassandra burst into tears. Yet even her confession paled beside that of Lady Priscella Hogg, a sad and somewhat simple girl of fourteen, stout and short and plain of face, who had somehow conceived the notion that Prince Viserys would marry her if only Larra of Lys were dead. “He smiles whenever he sees me,” she told the court, “and once when he passed me on the steps, his shoulder brushed against my bosom.”"

Viserys manipulated that girl into joining their conspiracy, in which they orchestrated poisoning of Aegon III and Queen Daenaera. He lied to her that he will marry with her if Larra will die. Though actually that was all a lie, and he had no intentions of getting rid of Larra, because she was the one behind all those plans, and he just did what she told him. That girl was simpleminded, so nobody believed afterwards into what Viserys told her. Based on what she said, how she said it, they all thought that she was just reading too much from just him smiling, maybe not even at her, and him once supposedly accidentally touching her, when they were passing each other. The courtiers thought that she was an idiot, and she really was an idiot, though it wasn't a lie or her misinterpretation, that he told her that if only his wife was dead, then he could have married her, and she believed him and took part in their plans, without actually knowing what those plans really were about. Viserys was a manipulative psychopath.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Megorova

[The Bard of Banefort]

8 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

we shall see! 

ps. check out Artworks thread. I put something you'd like...well.. you , Corvo and Loras Tyrell:) 

In my head canon , Daemon B was actually a good guy forced in an impossible situation . so yeah , I think he probably had more relationship with Aemon -hero of all- than his absent selfish father.

yeah.. the guy was sensitive 

tnx

you're probably right

agreed... almost. it would have been great if he either supported his poor niece's crown or disinherited his son in favor of his grandson...

 

finally , someone with good shipping sense they'll even be parallel to Ashara the desirable maid and Shy Ned! 

Yeah, it sucks for Daena, although we are told he tried to have her and her sisters freed from the Maidenvault. (It shows how there was something deeply wrong with Baelor when you consider that he could have just arranged marriages for his sisters. Instead he locked them in a tower for ten years. I doubt he planned on ever letting them out).

[Megorova]

28 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Yeah, it sucks for Daena, although we are told he tried to have her and her sisters freed from the Maidenvault. (It shows how there was something deeply wrong with Baelor when you consider that he could have just arranged marriages for his sisters. Instead he locked them in a tower for ten years. I doubt he planned on ever letting them out).

They all knew the truth about who their real father was, that their fathers were Gaemon and Viserys, not Aegon III. Gaemon was Aegon II's bastard, and he was the one who poisoned Aegon III in 135 AC, so he was a kinslayer, because him and Aegon III were first cousins. Baelor and Rhaena, out of Queen Daenaera's five children, were the only two fathered by Gaemon - the kinslayer, so their entire lives they were repenting for their father's sin. And Baelor locked Rhaena and the other two princesses into the tower, to keep them from Aegon IV, who actually was a half-brother of Daena and Elaena. Larra Rogare was intending to create something like a super-human, and was experimenting with genetical engeneering, using her son as a breeder. Eventually he did had a child with all three of his sisters - his full sister Naerys (princess Daenerys - mother of Duncan the Tall) and his two half-sisters - Daena (Daemon Blackfyre) and Elaena (Viserys Plumm). Aegon IV also had a child with his own daughter - Jeyne Lothston (the Bastard of Harrenhal), and a child with his own mother - Serenei of Lys/Larra Rogare (Shiera Seastar/Quaithe/the Three-Eyed Crow).

You people just don't understand what ASOIAF is about.

Edited February 3, 2022 by Megorova

[EggBlue]

17 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Yeah, it sucks for Daena, although we are told he tried to have her and her sisters freed from the Maidenvault.

he did try to free them (and I believe it) but afterwards  there was basically nothing to stop Daena from ascending the throne and legitimizing her own son (hell.. if  Freys and Lannisters were planning on presenting Robb as the beast who slew everyone at the red wedding , then Daena could definitely present herself as the Maiden Mary in history books). Targaryens were one single faction, the realm was united due to dornish war and during the 10 years of Baelor's rule there was limited enmity with Dorne...yet for some reason Viserys took the throne knowing that it not only destroys his poor mother's legacy but it also puts AegonIV next in line! 

17 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

(It shows how there was something deeply wrong with Baelor when you consider that he could have just arranged marriages for his sisters. Instead he locked them in a tower for ten years. I doubt he planned on ever letting them out).

 

the more I think about Baelor , the more I come to the conclusion that his interest in religious corelated with his shame of being a deep deep pervert! he probably wanted all his sisters but since it contradicted his religious beliefs and it scared him he took an oath of celibacy and then due to jealousy towards others who might have them, he kept his sisters in Maidenvault.... OR he was another sort of psycho! 

6 minutes ago, Megorova said:

You people just don't understand what ASOIAF is about.

look, there definitely is a chance that all your theories turn out to be true .from what I've read, you have gathered a good piece by piece set of evidence for each small theory. however , every small part is supported by yet another theory when you look at the large picture, which makes the whole thing a bit of a stretch... definitely a good read... but you cannot expect us to take them as facts and say "oh you guys don't get it ..only I do.." ! you might be right but yet again you might not. and it's not like a scientific fact that we can prove and set aside.. it's incomplete fiction in the head of one guy and all these are basically imagination of each of us! some theories are more supported than the rest but the bottom line is that these are all just guess games!

[The Bard of Banefort]

29 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

he did try to free them (and I believe it) but afterwards  there was basically nothing to stop Daena from ascending the throne and legitimizing her own son (hell.. if  Freys and Lannisters were planning on presenting Robb as the beast who slew everyone at the red wedding , then Daena could definitely present herself as the Maiden Mary in history books). Targaryens were one single faction, the realm was united due to dornish war and during the 10 years of Baelor's rule there was limited enmity with Dorne...yet for some reason Viserys took the throne knowing that it not only destroys his poor mother's legacy but it also puts AegonIV next in line! 

 

the more I think about Baelor , the more I come to the conclusion that his interest in religious corelated with his shame of being a deep deep pervert! he probably wanted all his sisters but since it contradicted his religious beliefs and it scared him he took an oath of celibacy and then due to jealousy towards others who might have them, he kept his sisters in Maidenvault.... OR he was another sort of psycho! 

look, there definitely is a chance that all your theories turn out to be true .from what I've read, you have gathered a good piece by piece set of evidence for each small theory. however , every small part is supported by yet another theory when you look at the large picture, which makes the whole thing a bit of a stretch... definitely a good read... but you cannot expect us to take them as facts and say "oh you guys don't get it ..only I do.." ! you might be right but yet again you might not. and it's not like a scientific fact that we can prove and set aside.. it's incomplete fiction in the head of one guy and all these are basically imagination of each of us! some theories are more supported than the rest but the bottom line is that these are all just guess games!

Well, to be fair, the fact that Daena just had a bastard didn’t help. I’m not sure why she didn’t name the father, but I’m wondering if was to spare Naerys the embarrassment.

[EggBlue]

37 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Well, to be fair, the fact that Daena just had a bastard didn’t help. I’m not sure why she didn’t name the father, but I’m wondering if was to spare Naerys the embarrassment.

I suspect she didn't tell for the sake of Naerys too.. plus if you sleep with the biggest jerk in the family who happens to be married to your cousin -out of desperation from 10 year confinement , 3 unsuccessful escapes , disappointment of a too healthy brother/prisonkeeper , loneliness and lack of any other guy - you won't shout out about your affair afterwards either... 

anyways , the point is that Viserys was the only one with the power or influence to oppose her ... as I assume, the country was at peace and more united than ever .  the fact that in spite of her confinement , her bastard and her lack of penis, still some thought she would be queen is telling. the world book says she didn't have powerful supporters , something Viserys had . he was too old to be a pawn so all I can think of is that Viserys took the throne because he wanted it. he probably thought it was his turn.

Edited February 3, 2022 by EggBlue

[EggBlue]

I just realized if Rhaegar's Jon's dad, then this quote makes Ned a total asshole in Jon's eyes whenever he knows of his parentage... 

Quote

. ..The king was a great disappointment to Jon. His father had talked of him often: the peerless Robert Baratheon, demon of the Trident, the fiercest warrior of the realm, a giant among princes.. ( aGot - Jon I )

we know from Bran's POV that Ned is not much of talker , he doesn't tell old tales about victories against famous knights if he doesn't want to (Arthur Dayne) , he doesn't talk about old parties even they have cool stories, etc. he has no obligation to talk about Robert so often and especially not about how he was demon of the Trident when he killed Jon's dad , how he was the fiercest warrior (so he could kill Jon's dad) and how he was a giant among princes (as compared to Jon's dad for example)! ... 

I wonder what he wanted to tell Jon when he saw him and talked to him?!

" so .. yeah .. you are my sister's son with the Targaryen prince.. you know the one I told you how Bobby was a total badass when he slew... they fought for your mom..and I lied about your identity because when Lannisters killed your siblings Robert called them dragonspawns so I feared he might kill you as well.. by the way courtesy Robert's half-Lannister children who technically have taken you and your sibling's place .... don't worry ,though, you are not a child of rape.. that basically does make your father an innocent but whatever, you are in NW so don't even think about revenge or IT or any of that nonsense!..  "

OUCH! 

[Corvo the Crow]

24 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

I just realized if Rhaegar's Jon's dad, then this quote makes Ned a total asshole in Jon's eyes whenever he knows of his parentage... 

we know from Bran's POV that Ned is not much of talker , he doesn't tell old tales about victories against famous knights if he doesn't want to (Arthur Dayne) , he doesn't talk about old parties even they have cool stories, etc. he has no obligation to talk about Robert so often and especially not about how he was demon of the Trident when he killed Jon's dad , how he was the fiercest warrior (so he could kill Jon's dad) and how he was a giant among princes (as compared to Jon's dad for example)! ... 

I wonder what he wanted to tell Jon when he saw him and talked to him?!

" so .. yeah .. you are my sister's son with the Targaryen prince.. you know the one I told you how Bobby was a total badass when he slew... they fought for your mom..and I lied about your identity because when Lannisters killed your siblings Robert called them dragonspawns so I feared he might kill you as well.. by the way courtesy Robert's half-Lannister children who technically have taken you and your sibling's place .... don't worry ,though, you are not a child of rape.. that basically does make your father an innocent but whatever, you are in NW so don't even think about revenge or IT or any of that nonsense!..  "

OUCH! 

Good find but He doesn’t see Rhaegar in a negative light either, in fact perhaps a bit of positive light. These are provanla told out of “obligation” Robert is his friend and very much alive whereas the not talked about individuals are all dead. No reason not to talk about him and in fact if he doesn’t it’d be suspicious. He talks about Howland too.

 

Oh and also…

Quote

we know from Bran's POV that Ned is not much of talker

Are we sure about this? The way Sansa nibbes on chicken’s makes me think otherwise

[EggBlue]

7 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said:

Good find but He doesn’t see Rhaegar in a negative light either, in fact perhaps a bit of positive light. These are provanla told out of “obligation” Robert is his friend and very much alive whereas the not talked about individuals are all dead. No reason not to talk about him and in fact if he doesn’t it’d be suspicious. He talks about Howland too.

I don't know . it might be a matter of perspective more than anything but I think it's insensitive of him to often talk of Jon's father's killer, friend or not , specifically from the time he put his hammer in Jon's father's chest(what other tale would be said of Trident?). he talks about Howland too but clearly he tells stories about Robert and not about Howland or Arthur Dayne or even Lyanna Stark ( Bran's knowledge about her seemed limited to general history and Arya was surprised to know she was like her aunt) 

[Corvo the Crow]

3 hours ago, EggBlue said:

I don't know . it might be a matter of perspective more than anything but I think it's insensitive of him to often talk of Jon's father's killer, friend or not , specifically from the time he put his hammer in Jon's father's chest(what other tale would be said of Trident?). he talks about Howland too but clearly he tells stories about Robert and not about Howland or Arthur Dayne or even Lyanna Stark ( Bran's knowledge about her seemed limited to general history and Arya was surprised to know she was like her aunt) 

There was an entire battle and that wasn’t the only noteworthy thing that we’ve been told perhaps he tells something else like Robert not letting Roose have his way with Barristan. If he indeed tells stuff like “My good friend Robert the King bashed Rhaegar’s head and caved his chest in with that huge warhammer that I can barely lift it with both hands” and “Rhaegar’s chest exploded like an overripened pomegranate, sending  rubies everywhere” than it’s really insensitive but Ned doesn’t seem to be that kind of person. He doesn’t like  fighting even if it’s mock like melees and tourneys.

I must say he’s truly ahead of his time.

[The Bard of Banefort]

Speaking of tourneys, does anyone find it weird that Arya didn’t attend the Hand’s Tourney? That seems to be something that tomboys in Westeros love (Brienne, Lyanna, etc.)

[Lady_Qohor]

1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Speaking of tourneys, does anyone find it weird that Arya didn’t attend the Hand’s Tourney? That seems to be something that tomboys in Westeros love (Brienne, Lyanna, etc.)

That is weird. Maybe Ned's disapproval of the tournament or maybe she just didn't want to be forced to sit next to Sansa for hours on end?

However, I would have thought that Arya would be independent minded enough to get round those barriers if it meant watching the best knights in the land hit each other with really big sticks.

[The Bard of Banefort]

I feel like I should have noticed this parallel sooner but. . . Littlefinger is basically Jeffrey Epstein, right? Clever, charismatic man from humble beginnings who gets rich by befriending powerful people, pulling money out of thin air, and covering his tracks, then starts a human trafficking ring and preys on teenage girls. Littlefinger was created long before the Epstein scandal broke but still, the similarities are striking.

[Alexis-something-Rose]

It's about the places that Brandon the Builder is rumored to have build, had a hand in building, made recommendations for. North to south:

• The Wall -- A place of ice, woven with old magic that dotsn't allow the monsters to pass.
• Winterfell -- A place of both ice and fire because of the hot springs.
• Storm's End -- A place of salt with walls woven with old spells that ward magic. Melisandre had to be rowed past the walls to birth her monstrosity. 
• The Hightower -- A place of fire. Even described as a flaming sword in the prologue of AFfC.

It seems like Storm's End and the Hightower could be a lot more strategic to the endgame than we might think. We have one POV in Oldtown and we'll have two at Storm's End. I'd even go as far as to say that because of the battle that will take outside its walls, Storm's End will become a place of both smoke and salt.

Edited February 10, 2022 by Alexis-something-Rose

[Alexis-something-Rose]

Going through quote collecting for an essay that I'm looking to write on the Long Night when I remembered this quote from the Mystery Knight;

"I'm not stupid, ser." Egg lowered his voice. "Someday the dragons will return. My brother Daeron's dreamed of it, and King Aerys read it in a prophecy. Maybe it will be my egg that hatches. That would be splendid."

So I never even connected that the prophecy alluded to in this tiny line is actually about the waking dragons from stone part of the Azor Ahai prophecy. 

Then everything goes to hell at Summerhall, with the GoHH telling Jaehaerys that the prince that was promised was going to come from Rhaella/Aerys's line, Egg trying to hatch the dragon eggs, probably including his own and Rhaegar's birth. 

GRRM is planting those seeds for Summerhall.

Edited February 11, 2022 by Alexis-something-Rose

[Corvo the Crow]

 

Quote

 

Ser Waymar looked him over with open disapproval. "I am not going back to Castle Black a failure on my first ranging. We will find these men." He glanced around. "Up the tree. Be quick about it. Look for a fire."

Will turned away, wordless. There was no use to argue. The wind was moving. It cut right through him. He went to the tree, a vaulting grey-green sentinel, and began to climb. Soon his hands were sticky with sap, and he was lost among the needles. Fear filled his gut like a meal he could not digest. He whispered a prayer to the nameless gods of the wood, and slipped his dirk free of its sheath. He put it between his teeth to keep both hands free for climbing. The taste of cold iron in his mouth gave him comfort.

Down below, the lordling called out suddenly, "Who goes there?" Will heard uncertainty in the challenge. He stopped climbing; he listened; he watched.

The woods gave answer: the rustle of leaves, the icy rush of the stream, a distant hoot of a snow owl.

The Others made no sound.

Will saw movement from the corner of his eye. Pale shapes gliding through the wood. He turned his head, glimpsed a white shadow in the darkness. Then it was gone. Branches stirred gently in the wind, scratching at one another with wooden fingers. Will opened his mouth to call down a warning, and the words seemed to freeze in his throat. Perhaps he was wrong. Perhaps it had only been a bird, a reflection on the snow, some trick of the moonlight. What had he seen, after all?

"Will, where are you?" Ser Waymar called up. "Can you see anything?" He was turning in a slow circle, suddenly wary, his sword in hand. He must have felt them, as Will felt them. There was nothing to see. "Answer me! Why is it so cold?"

It was cold. Shivering, Will clung more tightly to his perch. His face pressed hard against the trunk of the sentinel. He could feel the sweet, sticky sap on his cheek.

A shadow emerged from the dark of the wood. It stood in front of Royce. Tall, it was, and gaunt and hard as old bones, with flesh pale as milk. Its armor seemed to change color as it moved; here it was white as new-fallen snow, there black as shadow, everywhere dappled with the deep grey-green of the trees. The patterns ran like moonlight on water with every step it took.

Will heard the breath go out of Ser Waymar Royce in a long hiss. "Come no farther," the lordling warned. His voice cracked like a boy's. He threw the long sable cloak back over his shoulders, to free his arms for battle, and took his sword in both hands. The wind had stopped. It was very cold.

The Other slid forward on silent feet. In its hand was a longsword like none that Will had ever seen. No human metal had gone into the forging of that blade. It was alive with moonlight, translucent, a shard of crystal so thin that it seemed almost to vanish when seen edge-on. There was a faint blue shimmer to the thing, a ghost-light that played around its edges, and somehow Will knew it was sharper than any razor.

Ser Waymar met him bravely. "Dance with me then." He lifted his sword high over his head, defiant. His hands trembled from the weight of it, or perhaps from the cold. Yet in that moment, Will thought, he was a boy no longer, but a man of the Night's Watch.

The Other halted. Will saw its eyes; blue, deeper and bluer than any human eyes, a blue that burned like ice. They fixed on the longsword trembling on high, watched the moonlight running cold along the metal. For a heartbeat he dared to hope.

 

Others don't attack Ser Waymar until he challenges them. They could've easily charged him with their higher number and superior weapons or even taken him unawares but they make their presence known and only attack after Waymar challenges them.

[EggBlue]

38 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

 

Others don't attack Ser Waymar until he challenges them. They could've easily charged him with their higher number and superior weapons or even taken him unawares but they make their presence known and only attack after Waymar challenges them.

they are honorable!