The Bard of Banefort Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 48 minutes ago, Odej said: Ashara Dayne is dead and she isn't Daenerys, Jon or Aegon mother's. Get used to it. I just don’t understand why the books keep bringing her up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odej Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 47 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said: I just don’t understand why the books keep bringing her up. 'Cause she is a beautiful woman, with a mysterious past who had a tragic death. People love speculate about it and Martin knows it. I bet Ashara's original plot was just to be the red herring for who Jon Snow's mother is, but Martin may have gotten carried away and given her more background. But if she had an affair with a Stark it was Brandon, not Ned, and if she had any child, it's Allyria not Jon, Daenerys or Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Lannister Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 1 hour ago, Odej said: Ashara Dayne is dead and she isn't Daenerys, Jon or Aegon mother's. Get used to it. Obviously not. She's Ser Barristan's female persona according to the latest theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alysanne Donnelly Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 The Red Wedding is a cop out that took away the most interesting conflict, politics, and POV characters. I understand the white walkers are the "true villains" because the iron throne doesn't matter in the end, but I also don't find them as interesting as the politics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odej Posted January 4, 2022 Author Share Posted January 4, 2022 2 minutes ago, Lord Lannister said: Obviously not. She's Ser Barristan's female persona according to the latest theory. Oh really? According to the latest theory I read she is not only Jon Snow's mother as also Aegon's mother. Being Aegon fathered by Howland Reed and Jon by Ned. I guess I'm a little misinformed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EggBlue Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 12 hours ago, Corvo the Crow said: Sand snakes don’t seem to have any such quality though, and neither does Arianne. For male dorniers, since you brought this on a male-female axis, Oberyn and Darkstar don’t have any redeeming qualities either. Sand snakes are like that because of their father I think but why Arianne is such a spoiled bitch, I don’t know. Of all the characters, she is most similar to Cersei I think, not the one we currently see but her younger years. good point. it seems as if Dornish characters (and Iron Born) are still one dimensional in the story, some are barely characters despite having a pretty great potential in their backstory (looking at Aerio Hottah!) .I hope that'll change. also, what does Oberyn need a redeeming quality for?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EggBlue Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 2 hours ago, Odej said: Oh really? According to the latest theory I read she is not only Jon Snow's mother as also Aegon's mother. Being Aegon fathered by Howland Reed and Jon by Ned. I guess I'm a little misinformed. Nahh.. the latest theory says that Ashara Dayne is Sweets. you know, the purple eyed slave Tyrion meets . apparently Sweets/Ashara and Lyssene Hightower are Dany's parents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 Just now, EggBlue said: good point. it seems as if Dornish characters (and Iron Born) are still one dimensional in the story, some are barely characters despite having a pretty great potential in their backstory (looking at Aerio Hottah!) .I hope that'll change. also, what does Oberyn need a redeeming quality for?! Personally I love Oberyn as a character, he's so funny and badass at the same time and he does have several genuine human qualities such as his love for his family, his friendship with Willas Tyrell; his chemistry with Tyrion is also really great. Though he also have his darker and less likeable traits such as when he slapped Obara's mother because she didn't want to lose her daughter which was really an assholish move, his use of some very violent poisons as well as his arrogance and recklessness with him having poisonned and killed the Yornwood heir and how stupidely he exposed himself to be caught and smashed by Gregor Clegane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoodedCrow Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 Oberyn reminds me of Inigo Montoya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 Posted January 4, 2022 Share Posted January 4, 2022 6 minutes ago, HoodedCrow said: Oberyn reminds me of Inigo Montoya. Maybe GRRM was inspired by him to write Oberyn, I wouldn't be surprised if the showrunners of GOT based at least partially Oberyn's constant yelling of Gregor having murdered Elia, raped her and murdered her children on Inigo's screams of vengeance the six-fingered man who killed his father. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 While Tyrion isn't a saint like on GOT, I think the fandom is swinging too hard in the other direction by portraying him as a satanic gargoyle. A lot of his decisions in the earlier books are understandable, and expecting him to actively undermine his family is not something we'd ask of any other character. Dorne reads a bit too much like a male fantasy land. They still follow the feudal system, complete with bastards bearing separate names and arranged marriages, and they worship the same Seven as the rest of the southern kingdoms, but they're also apparently cool with women being sexually liberated. The whole reason why women can't take paramours is because you need to be able to verify that the kid you're bearing is your husband's, and therefore is in the line of succession for his lands and titles. There are no DNA tests in Westeros. (Also, as someone who was raised Catholic, a lot of these Latin cultures that Dorne is clearly modeled after that seem hot and sensual based on appearances usually also have major Madonna-whore complexes. Someone like Arianne would definitely be considered a hussy if it got out that she was sleeping around). I still don't understand what heresy is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Young Maester Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 5 hours ago, Alysanne Donnelly said: I understand the white walkers are the "true villains" because the iron throne doesn't matter in the end, but I also don't find them as interesting as the politics. I will go as far as saying the Others shouldve been scrapped and George should focus on what made this series popular. “Politics” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 55 minutes ago, The Young Maester said: I will go as far as saying the Others shouldve been scrapped and George should focus on what made this series popular. “Politics” Yeah, the Others bore me to tears. I have no idea what's going to happen with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 Magic didn’t return because of dragons, it’s the other way around, or rather, the Other way around as the return of the Others is also connected. Oh and also, Stark children aren’t Starks, they are Snows, except for Robb, he is a Rivers as he was born in Riverlands. Ned has secretly married to Ashara before Brandon died, so his marriage to Cat was a sham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted January 5, 2022 Share Posted January 5, 2022 I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion so much as an observation, but I don’t see any reason for the Valyrians to practice incest when there’s something like 14 different dragon-riding families. It’s basically just a smaller version of Westeros, where the highborn only marry each other. The bloodlines could have remained pure without the incest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaenara Belarys Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said: I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion so much as an observation, but I don’t see any reason for the Valyrians to practice incest when there’s something like 14 different dragon-riding families. It’s basically just a smaller version of Westeros, where the highborn only marry each other. The bloodlines could have remained pure without the incest. Agreed, there's fourty families, you don't need incest to keep the blood pure. Maybe bedding your sister was nostalgia for the "good old days" when "Valyria was Valyria!" just like the Romans did for 600 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bard of Banefort Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 2 hours ago, Jaenara Belarys said: Agreed, there's fourty families, you don't need incest to keep the blood pure. Maybe bedding your sister was nostalgia for the "good old days" when "Valyria was Valyria!" just like the Romans did for 600 years. Jesus, 40 families? Now the inbreeding really doesn’t make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 8 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said: I don’t know if this is an unpopular opinion so much as an observation, but I don’t see any reason for the Valyrians to practice incest when there’s something like 14 different dragon-riding families. It’s basically just a smaller version of Westeros, where the highborn only marry each other. The bloodlines could have remained pure without the incest. It's ideological, an obsession about the "uniqueness" of the Targaryens and of preserving it, not something rational. And nothing too surprising if you know the nonsensical customs and ideologies that have existed or still exist in real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 2 hours ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said: It's ideological, an obsession about the "uniqueness" of the Targaryens and of preserving it, not something rational. And nothing too surprising if you know the nonsensical customs and ideologies that have existed or still exist in real life. It’s not just Targs though, and even non dragon riding families seem to do it. 5 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said: Jesus, 40 families? Now the inbreeding really doesn’t make any sense. It may have started as something like marrying your cousin so your lands don’t get split up in inheritance and in thousands upon thousands of years it became a custom to marry as many of your sisters as it’s ungodly possible, for in Valyria thousands of gods were revered, while non feared. Westerosi lords aren’t far off either, cousin marriages are aplenty and iirc we even see some aunt-nephew, uncle-niece marriages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvo the Crow Posted January 6, 2022 Share Posted January 6, 2022 Dawn is a sword of the Others. Star that fell was a Stark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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