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Random Thoughts About ASOIAF


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15 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

I just hope it wasn't because the discussion got too heated. 

Is that why the w**ting threads were deleted/locked? Because I’m super bummed about that. (Mods, could someone shed some light on this for us, please? I would really appreciate it).

Edited by The Bard of Banefort
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Posted (edited)

Back to random thoughts: there’s a bit of a consensus among fans that the Riverlands have it the worst during times of war, but after re-reading the Dance, I think that the Crownlands take the top spot. They’re essentially forced to follow whoever sits the Iron Throne, and are brutally attacked during every civil war. 

Edited by The Bard of Banefort
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1 hour ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Back to random thoughts: there’s a bit of a consensus among fans that the Riverlands have it the worst during times of war, but after re-reading the Dance, I think that the Crownlands take the top spot. They’re essentially forced to follow whoever sits the Iron Throne, and are brutally attacked during every civil war. 

I think a lot of people base their opinion on what happened during the War of the Five Kings - the Riverlands had it way worse than anyone by far because Tywin went out of his way to wreck them. By contrast the Crownlands aren't nearly as wrecked.

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I've got a new theory regarding SanSan which got longer than I intended!

summary : I think Sansa reminds Sandor of his dead sister at the beginning of the story. so here's my train of thoughts:  

I've always found the fact that Sandor is suddenly so drawn to Sansa to the point he gets vulnerable every time they are together rather cheesy and old school ( basically "becoming a better man for the special girl" trope that dominated the fiction media of my teens ) . after all , although Sansa is a purely good hearted character , she does not come off as any different than other naive 11 yr old girls in court . moreover , her treatment around Sandor is not anything unique , she is frightened of him like everybody else .  Sandor's treatment of her isn't normal either. he , who is not exactly a talkative person at court, for some reasons thinks with himself that he should frighten the Hand's daughter from the beginning and talk to her in a non-courtly manner. sexual attraction is out of question in the beginning of their encounter in my opinion . since , Sandor seems to want to warn Sansa about her un-true world view above all else, unlike , say, Littlefinger who gives Sansa the feeling of being naked . and George has included Sansa's puberty and womanhood as a turning point ,perhaps ,with talking about how she started outgrowing her clothes and how her breasts grew with later catching the attention of stable boys when she rides in the yard , Sandor in her chamber and all the knights in the Vale Tourney . so , what is that draws Sandor to Sansa at the beginning? well , we know Sandor had a sister who mysteriously disappeared, most certainly killed by the Mountain . we know George seems to taken " God is in the details" to heart and with Sandor , dead wives and servants' stories Gregor is painted as a monstrous man already and there's not much of a need for a dead sister as well.  therefore, I think Sansa's interests , beliefs and disposition remind Sandor of the sister who got killed by his brother who is the symbol of everything wrong with Sansa's worldview (that knights are good hearted heroes who never harm the innocent) . of course , there is no way to prove this  and there is no evidence other than I think Sandor's sudden attraction is unrealistic and am effectively looking for explanations! 

thoughts? 

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28 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

I've got a new theory regarding SanSan which got longer than I intended!

summary : I think Sansa reminds Sandor of his dead sister at the beginning of the story. so here's my train of thoughts:  

I've always found the fact that Sandor is suddenly so drawn to Sansa to the point he gets vulnerable every time they are together rather cheesy and old school ( basically "becoming a better man for the special girl" trope that dominated the fiction media of my teens ) . after all , although Sansa is a purely good hearted character , she does not come off as any different than other naive 11 yr old girls in court . moreover , her treatment around Sandor is not anything unique , she is frightened of him like everybody else .  Sandor's treatment of her isn't normal either. he , who is not exactly a talkative person at court, for some reasons thinks with himself that he should frighten the Hand's daughter from the beginning and talk to her in a non-courtly manner. sexual attraction is out of question in the beginning of their encounter in my opinion . since , Sandor seems to want to warn Sansa about her un-true world view above all else, unlike , say, Littlefinger who gives Sansa the feeling of being naked . and George has included Sansa's puberty and womanhood as a turning point ,perhaps ,with talking about how she started outgrowing her clothes and how her breasts grew with later catching the attention of stable boys when she rides in the yard , Sandor in her chamber and all the knights in the Vale Tourney . so , what is that draws Sandor to Sansa at the beginning? well , we know Sandor had a sister who mysteriously disappeared, most certainly killed by the Mountain . we know George seems to taken " God is in the details" to heart and with Sandor , dead wives and servants' stories Gregor is painted as a monstrous man already and there's not much of a need for a dead sister as well.  therefore, I think Sansa's interests , beliefs and disposition remind Sandor of the sister who got killed by his brother who is the symbol of everything wrong with Sansa's worldview (that knights are good hearted heroes who never harm the innocent) . of course , there is no way to prove this  and there is no evidence other than I think Sandor's sudden attraction is unrealistic and am effectively looking for explanations! 

thoughts? 

My problem with Sansa reminding Sandor of his sister is that he never mentions her, to either Sansa or Arya (he does talk about his brother, father, and grandfather). Usually he brings up things that are on his mind, like how he talks about Sansa constantly around Arya. I think the attraction is based on how age is this weird abstract concept in ASOIAF, where the characters seem older than they are depending on the scene. I think him telling her about Gregor was just happenstance—the dam broke and she happened to be with him when it did—but that her reaction (trying to console him instead of being horrified) lit a spark. 

But this is all just conjecture on my part. Hopefully one day we get some kind of resolution.

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2 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

My problem with Sansa reminding Sandor of his sister is that he never mentions her, to either Sansa or Arya (he does talk about his brother, father, and grandfather). Usually he brings up things that are on his mind, like how he talks about Sansa constantly around Arya. I think the attraction is based on how age is this weird abstract concept in ASOIAF, where the characters seem older than they are depending on the scene. I think him telling her about Gregor was just happenstance—the dam broke and she happened to be with him when it did—but that her reaction (trying to console him instead of being horrified) lit a spark. 

But this is all just conjecture on my part. Hopefully one day we get some kind of resolution.

hopefully

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13 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I think a lot of people base their opinion on what happened during the War of the Five Kings - the Riverlands had it way worse than anyone by far because Tywin went out of his way to wreck them. By contrast the Crownlands aren't nearly as wrecked.

It's also that during every single telling of a war in Westeros, we need to make special mention of how the Brackens and Blackwoods take the opportunity to absolutely destroy each other again.

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14 minutes ago, Denam_Pavel said:

It's also that during every single telling of a war in Westeros, we need to make special mention of how the Brackens and Blackwoods take the opportunity to absolutely destroy each other again.

Yes, the Riverlands seems to have more feuding than other regions. Vassals are more disloyal too. The Riverlands also have no natural barriers to protect themselves, unlike the North, Dorne and the Vale.

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7 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

According to the AGoT appendix, the Lannisters are an Andal house, but TWOIAF says that they have First Men origin. Is this an oversight by GRRM or did he just change his mind?

Could it not be that the founder was First Men but they're more Andal now due to thousands of years of Andal marriages or something?

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9 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Could it not be that the founder was First Men but they're more Andal now due to thousands of years of Andal marriages or something?

That's definitely how the wiki seems to describe it, at least. But GRRM has said that First Men names consist of simple English words such as "stout" and "strong", while the Andal names are a bit more advanced. "Lannister" definitely falls into the latter category.

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42 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

That's definitely how the wiki seems to describe it, at least. But GRRM has said that First Men names consist of simple English words such as "stout" and "strong", while the Andal names are a bit more advanced. "Lannister" definitely falls into the latter category.

well , in aGoT in one of Ned chapters he thinks of how ancient house Lannister is and that their origin goes back almost to Bran the Bulider's . so that indicates First Man origin maybe that's why tWoIaF says that . then again, all families in Westeros must have some First Man origin which doesn't exactly make them First Man as people like Starks , Blackwoods or Royces are who have tried to intermarry themselves and preserve some of their First man culture such as religion, traditions or heirlooms .  it may be that Lannisters are more Andal now after thousands of years of marring Andals and honoring their traditions( as their surname and appearances indicate) but have kept their little legend as a way of havving more prestige  .

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So I was bored last week and started rereading the first book and some stuff just seems off to me. Like Jamie seems to be treated like he's not a member of the Kings Guard, even though he is one. Like for example Robert plans to make him Warden of the East and Ned mentions that he would would day also become Warden of the West, if something were to happen to his father. How are either of those even possible for a member of the Kings Guard? Aren't the wardens suppose to govern their regions and uphold the laws of them?

Edited by sifth
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6 hours ago, sifth said:

So I was bored last week and started rereading the first book and some stuff just seems off to me. Like Jamie seems to be treated like he's not a member of the Kings Guard, even though he is one. Like for example Robert plans to make him Warden of the East and Ned mentions that he would would day also become Warden of the West, if something were to happen to his father. How are either of those evil possible for a member of the Kings Guard? Aren't the wardens suppose to govern their regions and uphold the laws of them?

"the Kingslayer is not counted as kingsgaurd after he slayed his king" -Robb Stark to his brother Bran... but I agree with you it's weird a bit. 

I thought Warden was more of a military rank . it's not officially heredity , but it often is. 

 

 

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6 hours ago, sifth said:

So I was bored last week and started rereading the first book and some stuff just seems off to me. Like Jamie seems to be treated like he's not a member of the Kings Guard, even though he is one. Like for example Robert plans to make him Warden of the East and Ned mentions that he would would day also become Warden of the West, if something were to happen to his father. How are either of those evil possible for a member of the Kings Guard? Aren't the wardens suppose to govern their regions and uphold the laws of them?

I found that the first book has a few things like this which are a bit weird but don't seem to come up again later. Like all the warden stuff. I think at the time Robert thought it was important because he feared a Dothraki invasion.

Quote

"For the last time, I will not name the Arryn boy Warden. I know the boy is your nephew, but with Targaryens climbing in bed with Dothraki, I would be mad to rest one quarter of the realm on the shoulders of a sickly child."

Quote

He left unsaid his real concern; that the appointment would put half the armies of the realm into the hands of Lannisters.

I got the impression it was a military position, just for commanding the armies and didn't involve much ruling or holding lands. But not many people aside from Lysa seem to care later on. I think Daven Lannister ends up being warden of the west anyway. 

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On the subject of the first book I also find the foreshadowing in that book particularly interesting. I feel like some of it is foreshadowing for things that would've happened in the original outline e.g. Jaime becoming king, but because those ideas were abandoned it's quite odd because it isn't foreshadowing anything anymore.

Because of this, I find it hard to tell which parts of foreshadowing are actually foreshadowing something.

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9 hours ago, sifth said:

How are either of those evil possible for a member of the Kings Guard? Aren't the wardens suppose to govern their regions and uphold the laws of them?

I guess that since Jaime broke the most sacred of the KG vows by killing the king, Ned was afraid that he would break other rules as well. Ned even wanted to send Jaime to the Wall after Robert's rebellion, but Jon Arryn wanted to spare him in order to appease the Lannisters.

Edited by Takiedevushkikakzvezdy
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