Hope for the Frey family

[Mordred]

This is the challenge for Dany.  She will reforge Westeros like a broken sword back into whole again.  It could play into the deeper meaning of her function as Azor Ahai.  The overall picture of the sword is a reforged empire consisting of several ethnic groups and kingdoms.  The people of the slaver's bay, certainly the Dothraki, and Westeros will be parts of her empire.  The empire will be the sword that drives away the darkness of the Others. 

[Mordred]

The Starks will refuse to show mercy to the Freys and that will be a big job for Dany to resolve.  She won't give the Starks what they want because it won't be justice but revenge.  The war between fire and ice is going to happen and the Starks will dig themselves into trouble.  Like they always do.  I could see the Starks aligning themselves with the others just to make a stand against becoming a part of the kingdom of Westeros again. 

[Northern Sword]

7 hours ago, Mordred said:

The Starks will refuse to show mercy to the Freys and that will be a big job for Dany to resolve.  She won't give the Starks what they want because it won't be justice but revenge.  The war between fire and ice is going to happen and the Starks will dig themselves into trouble.  Like they always do.  I could see the Starks aligning themselves with the others just to make a stand against becoming a part of the kingdom of Westeros again. 

The Frey's broke the most sacred of rules, Guest Right. Every lord, every religion, every region holds it sacred. Most certainly Dany wont/cant afford to ignore the Frey's transgression . If she did, she would lose support at every turn.

The Frey's, who have been offended time and time again while trying to enter the tippy top of society through marriage, just ensured they will never reach that high... EVER. They were already looked down on. No self respecting Lord would marry their kid into that family anymore.

No one will give mercy to the Frey's.

[Quoth the raven,]

The head of the Frey family might surprise us and outlive the Starks. 

[SaffronLady]

1 hour ago, Quoth the raven, said:

The head of the Frey family might surprise us and outlive the Starks. 

Old Walder is a classic example of "living too long makes you evil". If he could already pull off the Red Wedding, he would pull off an even more heinous stunt if he keeps on living.

[SeanF]

On 2/13/2023 at 4:04 PM, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Sure, the Frey's & Robb both broke their promise but look at the difference between them. Walder refused to come to the aid of his liege lord to begin with, then demanded compensation for Robb's army to pass through even though, rightfully, according to the rules of a feudal society, he owed alligance to Robb & should have let him pass with out all that. BUT that didn't happen. Robb offered Walder terms that he accepted. Robb, did not adhere to those terms = broke his oath. What did he do though? He went to Walder, like a man, explained what happened & offered a solution that would allow Walder to have one of his kin married off to a Lord, just like the original deal. Walder accepted these terms but wasn't happy with them apparently = broke his oath. But what did he do when he broke his oath? He traded sides & set up a slaughter. 

Which of the oaths of the NW did Jon break? 

Apparently, the oath of the Nights Watch is to kiss the boots of the Boltons and Lannisters.

[SeanF]

Hopefully, old Walder will survive long enough to be slowly impaled.

[Maegor_the_Cool]

On 12/23/2023 at 7:08 AM, SeanF said:

Hopefully, old Walder will survive long enough to be slowly impaled.

I still think he’ll be ripped apart by Nymeria’s Wolfpack as he flees by carriage from the Twins

[Farstrider]

The punishment should fit the crime.  No one will support the death penalty for shoplifting because it's out of proportions to the crime.  Robb betrayed the Freys and dishonored himself.  Robb sucked at being king but Walder taking the punishment to that level wasn't justice.  It's the same morality dilemma between Jon Snow and Janos Slynt.  Slynt insulted Jon but in no way did it justify Jon killing him.  Walder was wrong to murder Robb while Jon was wrong to murder Janos. 

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

3 hours ago, Farstrider said:

The punishment should fit the crime.  No one will support the death penalty for shoplifting because it's out of proportions to the crime.  Robb betrayed the Freys and dishonored himself.  Robb sucked at being king but Walder taking the punishment to that level wasn't justice.  It's the same morality dilemma between Jon Snow and Janos Slynt.  Slynt insulted Jon but in no way did it justify Jon killing him.  Walder was wrong to murder Robb while Jon was wrong to murder Janos. 

Janos Slynt didn't just insult Jon, he insulted and disrespected his lord commander to his face and commited insubordination, and Jon gave him several chances to change his mind and obey before executing him. The punishment did fit the crime in Slynt's case and he brought it on himself.

[SeanF]

1 hour ago, Terrorthatflapsinthenight9 said:

Janos Slynt didn't just insult Jon, he insulted and disrespected his lord commander to his face and commited insubordination, and Jon gave him several chances to change his mind and obey before executing him. The punishment did fit the crime in Slynt's case and he brought it on himself.

Cowardice in the face of the enemy, combined with insubordination, merit the death penalty, as you state.

Jon was certainly keen to execute Slynt, but that does make his actions unjust.

[The Lord of the Crossing]

Walder Frey honored his deal with Robb Stark. Robb did not.  Robb was not even going to beg forgiveness until he needed the Freys.  Robb received what he deserved. 

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Walder Frey honored his deal with Robb Stark. Robb did not.  Robb was not even going to beg forgiveness until he needed the Freys.  Robb received what he deserved. 

Walder Frey spat in the face of the Gods, by committing mass murder, at a religious ceremony.

And, the punishment will be the extinction of House Frey.

[The Commentator]

Robb Stark was killed by Roose Bolton. The Freys were complicit but they didn’t do the actual killing. Catelyn killed Jinglebells and that should be the more serious sin that took place that day. 

[Quoth the raven,]

On 12/23/2023 at 12:03 PM, SaffronLady said:

Old Walder is a classic example of "living too long makes you evil". If he could already pull off the Red Wedding, he would pull off an even more heinous stunt if he keeps on living.

Walder has no history of trouble-making.  It is the Starks who have that unpleasant reputation.  Remember what Brandon Stark did before the rebellion.  He made threats to harm the ruling family.  It is also beginning to look like, per Barbrey Dustin's words, that the Starks were part of a devious secret plan to remove the Targaryens from power.  Cat's reaction to what happened to her son is what started the war of the five kings.  I know it is mostly Jaime's fault but Cat should have known better than kidnapping Tyrion. 

Edited January 8 by Quoth the raven,

[Quoth the raven,]

On 12/29/2023 at 3:02 AM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Walder Frey honored his deal with Robb Stark. Robb did not.  Robb was not even going to beg forgiveness until he needed the Freys.  Robb received what he deserved. 

The Starks are too prideful for that.  Walder should have milked the advantage for all it was worth and required more from Robb. 

[SaffronLady]

3 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

Walder has no history of trouble-making. 

Quote

Ser Duncan the Tall thought that Walder was an extremely annoying child, and was sorely tempted to throw him down a well.

I'd take Ser Duncan's judgement over yours, thank you.

3 hours ago, Quoth the raven, said:

Remember what Brandon Stark did before the rebellion.  He made threats to harm the ruling family.

Yes. Because the ruling family happened to kidnap his sister, and proceeded to kill him and his father with cruel and unusual punishment. I wonder why his younger brother became a rebel, most puzzling.

[SeanF]

4 hours ago, SaffronLady said:

I'd take Ser Duncan's judgement over yours, thank you.

Yes. Because the ruling family happened to kidnap his sister, and proceeded to kill him and his father with cruel and unusual punishment. I wonder why his younger brother became a rebel, most puzzling.

I have to wonder if there are pirated versions of the books, which portray the Freys, Boltons, and Joffrey as the heroes of the tale.

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

I have hope for the Frey family also.  I hope they'll end the series looking up at the grass.

And an fyi, I'm referring to the Freys who were responsible for/carried out the Red Wedding massacre.

[Northern Sword]

Hope for the Frey's, the ones who broke the rules of guest rite. The most untouchable of all rules. No matter the region, the race, the politics, or religions. The most important rule in-universe. So important the GRRM has the Rat Cook story brought up multiple times and is referenced by POV's regularly. 

But this crowd.. nah, its the Starks fault. lmfoa

At this point, I'm actually impressed by the anti-Stark crowd for their persistence in their own version of the story. It is absolute nonsense. But I enjoy their refusal to admit it... Amazing.