The Last Kingdom - new season out today

[SeanF]

On 3/13/2022 at 4:00 PM, The Merling King said:

I finished episode 8 last night and have been enjoying this season so far.

I wish we got more numbers on the sizes of the various armies for example the West Saxon host King Edward brought north, the Mercian guard, Athelhelm and Sytriggers armies etc. Any one have an educated guess or estimate?

I can’t remember if in the previous seasons they mention how many men Lord Odda or Lord Athelhelm, the two most powerful Eldorman in Wessex, could raise in there Fyrd.

In the books, army sizes are not large.  2,000 men is a big force.  

[Larry of the Lawn]

On 3/13/2022 at 10:08 AM, Corvinus85 said:

3 episodes in. The show continues to have strong character moments but I do find Brida to be a bit of a caricature, though Cornwell didn't do her any service either. 

My problem with season 4 was mainly about how far it diverged from the books but also that it dropped all pretenses of having any historical accuracies, especially anything that has to do with battles. Which was a great shame considering how the show began. Season 5 is continuing this trend, but not so egregious yet.

The non-aging of characters is indeed a very awkward thing. I can't take a bearded Edward with a nigh a hair on his chest seriously. I'm not sure why Ælswith has been kept alive so far into the show when so other characters were cruelly disposed of and considering that she continues to behave like a Karen. But the actress has done a good job throughout the series, so maybe that's why.

I reread the books between season 4 and 5, (well, was a first read for the last 4 or 5 books) and the divergence definitely bothered me more this season than with 4.  In season 4 all that really got to me was Cnut was so cartoonish in the show, and that Tetanhall so poorly done.  And the whole Ragnar/Storri/Aethelwold plot seemed like way too much time was spent on it. 

Agree about some of the silliness in travel times (and making up the village Uhtred was at, was it supposed to be Lindcolne?) and (book and show spoilers follow):

Spoiler

the nonsense with the army just walking into Jorvik because Sytryggr couldn't hear the sentry.  

Also the scene where Sygtryggrs brother has to carry the iron bar.  Why would dude move so slow?  Anyone would be trying to walk quickly and put down the fucking bar burning your goddamn hands.  Was it supposed to be suspenseful when he fell to one knee?

I get they had a lot to wrap up in a short amount of time but the taking of Bebbanburg was way cooler in the book, (loved the Aethelstan as mystery soldier reveal in the book).  

I didn't mind the fact that some characters ages and some didn't, was more funny than anything else.  

Still looking forward to the movie but in the last few books really do a great job of revealing Uhtred's doubts and insecurities, and the show hasn't really (understandably) been able to do this anywhere near as well.  It worked somewhat when he had a foil like Arthur to play off of.  I hope they are able to capture some of the similar dynamic between Uhtred and Aethelstan from the final book in the movie.

One scene I'd love to see captured on screen is Uhtred allowing himself to be captured by Waormund in the barley field and him being sure he's reached the end of his story.  I think that may have been the most nail-biting scene from the books.

 

Was cool to see these books brought to the screen, and they did a good job considering the scope.  I would have loved if the show had cleaved closer to the books but oh well, instill binged this last season in a day and a half.  

It would be really funny if for the movie they go heavy in the makeup and try to age the characters exactly to the story.  

[Corvinus85]

4 hours ago, SeanF said:

This was far better than later seasons of A Game of Thrones.  It is far more honest about war and kingship in a medieval setting.  Nobody wins wars through convoluted strategies of non-violent resistance;  no one is expected to show unconditional forgiveness to enemies;  no one is expected to adhere to The Hague or Geneva conventions;  any successful ruler, however sympathetic, has to be ruthless, in order to survive.

No one forgetting about enemy fleets? (Only at episode 5)

14 minutes ago, Larry of the Lake said:

Agree about some of the silliness in travel times (and making up the village Uhtred was at, was it supposed to be Lindcolne?) and (book and show spoilers follow):

If I remember correctly a lot of the story in these particular books takes place around Caester. But I guess they decided not to build another expansive set, as Caester would have required Roman build walls, and went with Rumcofa, which I don't think it was invented, but certainly wasn't a major settlement.

 

After a great 4th episode, the 5th was much more frustrating. 

Spoiler

I get that they may have wanted to up the stakes and the drama by killing off one of Uhtred's band, but it's still grating as the show has kept alive other characters that should be dead. #JusticeforOsferth

But the most annoying part about the episode was how the queen's body kept getting moved around and stored in the open and she wasn't rotting one bit. There are moments when this show simply has too much lazy writing.

I continue to dislike the costumes apart from Edward's and the occasional actual mail hauberk.

[The Young Maester]

36 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

I continue to dislike the costumes apart from Edward's and the occasional actual mail hauberk.

I really want to see uhtred with his book armour. Looking like a proper war lord. But sadly the entertainment industry seems to have an issue with these type of things.

[SeanF]

9 hours ago, The Young Maester said:

I really want to see uhtred with his book armour. Looking like a proper war lord. But sadly the entertainment industry seems to have an issue with these type of things.

It seems to be a convention of shows set in medieval worlds that armour isn't of much use anyway, and the protagonists don't wear helmets.

[Zorral]

What about the show did you guys like, that kept you all watching?

[SeanF]

On 3/15/2022 at 4:45 PM, Zorral said:

What about the show did you guys like, that kept you all watching?

I enjoyed the plot, the fight scenes, the acting.  One thing that I prefer to the books is that we get points of view other than Uhtred’s.

[Zorral]

Liking

33 minutes ago, SeanF said:

the acting.

 -- can that be interpreted as being impressed as well by the number of characters over the course of the series that were created by the actors, as well as the relationships among themselves as the characters within the narrative the series gives us?

The more time now, mulling over the sheer number of characters the series gave us, the more impressed I am with the number of them that made individual impressions on the viewer -- or at least on me.  For just one example, the trajectory of Aldheim, who begins for us as one of the vile Aethelred's men.  Alfred! without the actor's interpretation of Alfred, one wonders whether this series would have made it for so long, doing so well.  The contrast of one a Christian king attempting to follow in the Charlemagnian Renaissance (though the historical figures of course never called their ambitions this) in concert and in antagonism with a pagan warrior -- it really made it for us, I think, in many ways.  

[The Young Maester]

I think when Alfred died, the show kinda lost its shine for me. The books kept me 100% hooked after Alfred’s death, but the show not so much. I guess their was something interesting about having a pagan Anglo-Saxon warrior willingly follow a devout Christian king.

It probably has to do with my own fascination with Alfred the great. A king that I believe dosent get much credit within the annals of English history. 

[Arakasi]

Alfred was amazing agreed and it did lose a bit of lustre with his death. But there is enough other performances, sadly many have died. Uhtred is good. Leofric from season 1, Aethelwold and Aethelread as much as I hated them, Aethelfelad, Finn and Sihtric. Father Biocca and the nun turned warrior (forgot her name). Alfred was the best no doubt but many other standouts and very few imo that fell flat.

[Corvinus85]

Finished it. I quite liked the last 4 episodes. A lot of powerful character moments and the actors all did great in all the pivotal scenes. The final battle was fine, at least much better than the silly stuff we got in season 4, even though

Spoiler

the rate at which Edward's men were falling off the cliff was alarmingly fast. They were already falling when Uhtred finally rode out of Bebbanburg, met with Stiorra in the woods, made a rousing speech and brought the Danes to turn the tide.

I don't know why they decided to turn Ælswith into the comic relief in those final episodes. I suppose with all the drama some brevity was warranted and there weren't any valid reasons for the character to continue to be part of the story.

Overall, a solid season and ending. Yes, better than GoT. Even if some of its execution was silly and occasionally rushed, the characters remained true to themselves.

I would say that the stupidest part of this season was

Spoiler

Æthelstan in Æthelhelm's camp and not being assassinated. 

So does anyone remember

Spoiler

when Uhtred had another son and who was the mother? In the books he and Gisela had 3 children, and the youngest becomes his heir with the oldest being a gelded priest. But in the show it appeared that they only had 2 children. I was very confused when the hidden child was mentioned and now we got to see him at the end with Hilde.

 

On 3/15/2022 at 11:45 AM, Zorral said:

What about the show did you guys like, that kept you all watching?

As a book reader I enjoyed the first 3 seasons and was only really disappointed in some aspects of the 4th season. This final season was better.

For the entire show I liked the acting, most of the characters, the scenery and how the show generally shot, and the music. I wish the war costumes had been better and more authentic. Season 1 and even 2 and 3 had some great battle sequences, and for a while the show seemed to stand above so many Hollywood dregs. Then in season 4 they gave up. What happened to shield wall battles? We finally got one in the finale but even that one wasn't quite as well done.

To be fair, I thought Edward and Æthelstan had decent costumes and even Uhtred had a gambeson underneath his "sexy" leather tunic. OTOH, I've no idea what Sigtryggr was wearing. It's like he realized he was living in a simulation and became medieval Neo. And Stiorra was Trinity. 

Another aesthetic miss was not to give Uhtred his wolf head sigil and banner.

They probably knew from the beginning they won't have a chance to tell all the stories from the books but I still wish they had covered a few more things mainly to better develop some of the main secondary characters. The most underdeveloped character was, sadly, Finan. I wish they had done some of the Irish stuff with him from the books to give him an additional dynamic than just being the group's cynic and prime jokster.

[SeanF]

5 hours ago, The Young Maester said:

I think when Alfred died, the show kinda lost its shine for me. The books kept me 100% hooked after Alfred’s death, but the show not so much. I guess their was something interesting about having a pagan Anglo-Saxon warrior willingly follow a devout Christian king.

It probably has to do with my own fascination with Alfred the great. A king that I believe dosent get much credit within the annals of English history. 

Alfred was played outstandingly.  English royal history focuses mostly on the Tudors, these days, but the Victorians revered Alfred.

To medieval people, Athelstan was the greatest.  

[Zorral]

13 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

I don't know why they decided to turn Ælswith into the comic relief in those final episodes.

That was surprising.  I wondered if the show missed Aethelwold's great -- and they were great -- comic moments.  Also, with Aelswith now a grandmother, grandmothers often get more mellow. But as per the past, her decisions again were always wrong, or her better moves, too late.  This time around though, her moves, threatening always to bring the same sort of past disaster, were generally, sorta, just about right.   She also provided a continuity from the days of Alfred to these new, post-Alfred days.

 

13 hours ago, Corvinus85 said:

Spoiler

when Uhtred had another son and who was the mother? In the books he and Gisela had 3 children, and the youngest becomes his heir with the oldest being a gelded priest. But in the show it appeared that they only had 2 children. I was very confused when the hidden child was mentioned and now we got to see him at the end with Hilde.

 

I had the same trouble,

Spoiler

and haven't tried to look him up yet, hoping someone here could tell us.  He's too young to have been a second child of Uhtred's first wife.  It was also just right that among Uhtred's flash memories was the horror and grief of the child that died, in order that, depending on one's belief systems, Alfred's could live.

 

[Zorral]

Ha!  Here are the answers:

https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/the-last-kingdom-season-5-ending-sets-up-movie/

Quote

 

.... Fans have been asking after Uhtred’s youngest son ever since he went without a mention when Young Uhtred and Stiorra arrived in season four. Now we know where he’s been: with Hild on the holy island of Lindisfarne. A scene in the finale showed Hild leading the young Osbert (Uhtred’s first name before he was re-christened with the name of his dead older brother) along the beach. They’re off to meet the new Lord of Bebbanburg, whom Hild says can teach the boy about his origins. “You think he may once have met my father?” asks Osbert, to which Hild smiles and replies “Something like that.”

Osbert is Young Uhtred and Stiorra’s little brother, and the youngest child of Uhtred and Gisela, who died giving birth to him in season three. He’s grown up as a (reluctant and unscholarly, by the sounds of his complaints about Hild’s attempts to teach him scripture) Christian with no knowledge of his roots, so his introduction to the family should provide plenty of drama. . . . .

 

This piece also told me the title of the sequel feature film -- Seven Kings Must Die.

[Chad Vader]

I Loved this season. IMO its as good as any other season the show put out. Its hard for a show to have a proper final season nowadays but TLK did it.

[SeanF]

It’ll be interesting to see what Edward does with Aelfweard and Aelfwynn in the film.  I still think the latter would have been best advised to marry Constantine.

[Zorral]

57 minutes ago, SeanF said:

It’ll be interesting to see what Edward does with Aelfweard and Aelfwynn in the film.  I still think the latter would have been best advised to marry Constantine.

 I'm guessing, like in history, Aelfwynn won't be around long in the film?  At best, she'll be widowed rapidly, then married off to some continental prince or king.  

[Veltigar]

I started watching episode 1 of this new season yesterday. Am I the only one who feels like something strange happened to this series? I barely seem to remember anything from season 4 (although I know I have seen it) and for some reason it is now even more glaringly obvious that this story is a big mess.

I read all the books and I feel like there is a shit ton of story that the series hasn't covered yet. Way too much also to do in the number of episodes they have left. I know the books are hardly literary master pieces and there is a lot of repetitiveness in the sense that every book Uthred has to fight against throwaway threat number XIV or XV or whatever but did they not conquer Bebbanburg last season? That seems like a big fucking thing to leave out.

I also can't help but feel ever more strongly that this series has a terrible track record on casting decisions. With the exception of Leofric, Guthrum, Beocca and Alfred from season one, I feel like most actors are more Daario Naharis from GoT than Ragnar from VIkings if that comparison makes sense. Some are not bad actors per se (e.g. Alexander Dreyfuss as the lead), but they just feel... off? Like they would be more at home in a Twilight spin-off than in this sort of rough and tumble world.

A lot of it is also just plain stupidity on the part of the creators. Characters don't age one bit (Alfred's widow looks essentially the same as in season one even though more than twenty years must have passed in universe) and you have in season 05X01 several instances of things

Spoiler

like the assassination attempt on Aethelstan where two guys attack a teenage boy while the third guy just stands there and keeps watching. If he had intervened, the boy would have been dead but for some reason he doesn't?

Then there is Brida castrating Uthred's son out of nowhere, like what the fuck?

The attack on Yorvick which also didn't make a lick of sense. As if sentries would not cry a big alarm on the arrival of so many armed men?

There is just too much dumb shit to count. I'll try some more episodes, but I hope it gets better.

[Veltigar]

On 3/17/2022 at 12:24 AM, The Young Maester said:

I think when Alfred died, the show kinda lost its shine for me. The books kept me 100% hooked after Alfred’s death, but the show not so much. I guess their was something interesting about having a pagan Anglo-Saxon warrior willingly follow a devout Christian king.

For me the first season of this show was amazing. The "no mercy" charge at the end was such an exhilarating moment, the baptism of Guthrum is also one of my favorite scenes ever and all the actors with the exception of Uthred were so well cast. it really played a league above similar drama's. After season one there was a definite drop in quality, which became even worse after Alfred (the show's strongest actor) was taken off the board.

It never fell to the depths of Vikings, but it also never really regained that season one peak. I'm still on board mainly because I like the genre, the competition is usually even worse and I have a lot invested in this series as I read all the books after season one came out. 

I hope the rest of the season is better than that first episode though. 

[Spockydog]

41 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

After season one there was a definite drop in quality, which became even worse after Alfred (the show's strongest actor) was taken off the board.

We often hear actors talking about how working with a really talented colleague can elevate performances across the entire production. The show definitely lost something when Dawson left.

Finished it last night. It was okay.

Now, where's my Warlord Chronicles?