US Politics: Supreme Courting to insanity.

[Kalbear]

Don't forget the more radical plan of telling minorities and women in red states to go fuck themselves by peacefully seceding from the US and doing their own thing - that has the benefit of selfishness and being impossible in one nice package.

[LongRider]

Eastman drops suit against J6C.  

Quote

Former Trump attorney John Eastman voluntarily withdrew his lawsuit that sought to block the Jan. 6 Select Committee from gaining access to his phone records, according to a filing late Tuesday.

In the filing, Eastman’s lawyer, Charles Burnham, wrote that that the committee had assured in their motion that they were only seeking his call logs, not the content of any of his messages held by his phone provider, Verizon.

Posted at Talking Points Memo today.

[Zorral]

From Jay Rosen  @jayrosen_nyu   -- "If you paid close attention to the testimony about a struggle for the steering wheel in the president's car... and you paid close attention to Pence's refusal to get into his car on Jan. 6... then you should pay close attention to this whole clip— and that's all I'm going to say."

An expert on POTUS vehicles talks to Rachel Maddow.

 

[Tywin et al.]

18 minutes ago, Week said:

Democrats have a plan for this.

1) Vote for D candidates (an insufficient number of which will win in order to overturn the filibuster)

2) ???

3) Vote for D candidates (an insufficient number of which will win in order to overturn the filibuster)

4) ???

Don't even think about discussing other solutions.

 

15 minutes ago, JGP said:

VP Harris' most recent interview was exemplar of this exact thing. Can hardly describe how disappointing it was. 

Which underscores the main thing that needs fixing: DEMOCRATS HAVE SHITTY LEADERS AND THEY ALL NEED TO BE REPLACED. Get these old fucks out of here who come from a different time and still want to go about politics the old way. They still think they can work with Republicans. They still want to be their friends. They're clearly not living in the real world. 

[JGP]

18 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Eastman drops suit against J6C.  

Posted at Talking Points Memo today.

This feels like a horse trade for circumstantial. 

Weak 

Again.

[LongRider]

8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Get these old fucks out of here who come from a different time and still want to go about politics the old way.

I like Biden but I agree with this.  The cold war on our democracy is ongoing and really heating up.  Biden is not a war president, he would be a great peacetime prez, but that is not the Prez we need right now.

[Ran]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

and still want to go about politics the old way.

 

Or consider the fact that we should consider "the wisdom of the ancients" because the electorate is actually more like the ancients than the people advocating wanting to get the "old fucks out".

 

 

[DMC]

1 hour ago, Babblebauble said:

Until you folks are ready to kill or be killed to STOP them from doing that again -which they probably won't even have to- you're wasting more than time. You're wasting the last moments to do something that can arrest the collapse. 

44 minutes ago, Babblebauble said:

And you call me crazy for pointing this out to you?

So the only legitimate topic to discuss any longer in the US politics threads is how to kill all the Trumpists?  Gotcha.  I'd suggest if we're actually intent on doing so, probably best not to plan on a public forum, but YMMV.

The vast majority of people reading this are thoroughly aware of everything you pointed out.  Thing is, other than violence, you aren't even providing any tangible solutions.  JGP did, and virtually everything he listed has been discussed on here ad nauseam.  The crazy part isn't you "pointing this out" to us, it's nonsensically hurling obscenities at posters for having the temerity to discuss the news of the day.

[JGP]

6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

 

Which underscores the main thing that needs fixing: DEMOCRATS HAVE SHITTY LEADERS AND THEY ALL NEED TO BE REPLACED. Get these old fucks out of here who come from a different time and still want to go about politics the old way. They still think they can work with Republicans. They still want to be their friends. They're clearly not living in the real world. 

Agreed.

Right now though. the prevailing idea that center/center-left politicians need to remain calm is asinine.

If they're too afeared to layout the strategy of how they intend to combat it [if there is one] at least get fucking visibly angry about it. 

Beto made a serious gain when he confronted Abbott at the Uvalde presser. Lean into that, at the very least.

[Kalbear]

3 minutes ago, Ran said:

Or consider the fact that we should consider "the wisdom of the ancients" because the electorate is actually more like the ancients than the people advocating wanting to get the "old fucks out".

 

 

What a very odd counterpoint. No one mentioned or even hinted at the problem being too progressive or championing progressive causes. Unless you are claiming that a representative democracy, people who do crimes being held accountable and rights for people in general are progressive planks now?

[JGP]

10 minutes ago, DMC said:

So the only legitimate topic to discuss any longer in the US politics threads is how to kill all the Trumpists?  Gotcha.  I'd suggest if we're actually intent on doing so, probably best not to plan on a public forum, but YMMV.

The vast majority of people reading this are thoroughly aware of everything you pointed out.  Thing is, other than violence, you aren't even providing any tangible solutions.  JGP did, and virtually everything he listed has been discussed on here ad nauseam.  The crazy part isn't you "pointing this out" to us, it's nonsensically hurling obscenities at posters for having the temerity to discuss the news of the day.

Take this for what it is, but I don't know if Men are actually capable of fully feeling what women in the US are right now. I consider myself a pretty hip guy, and I have two daughters [American or no] and I know I can't fully feel it.

Exceptions to anger and frustration are solidarity, yo.

[Tywin et al.]

14 minutes ago, Ran said:

Or consider the fact that we should consider "the wisdom of the ancients" because the electorate is actually more like the ancients than the people advocating wanting to get the "old fucks out".

 

 

Are you suggesting that it's unique to politics to have way more junior staffers than senior staffers, and that junior staffers tend to skew younger? 

Yes, the overwhelming majority of political staffers are in their 20s. And also the elected officials probably know like 1% of their names, especially if they hold a statewide office. The people actually advising them are far more likely to be in their 40s and 50s than 20s. 

[Maithanet]

What is incredibly frustrating about the Democrats (particularly the old guard of Biden, Pelosi and Schumer) is not that they aren't fighting for very liberal causes but that they don't seem to be fighting at all.  Roe v Wade gets overturned and the response is Pelosi reading a poem and requests for donations.  Do Something.  You had over a month's warning that this was coming, and yet the Democrats still had no plan to make abortions easier or what needs to be done to bring these rights back. 

Republicans are waging an all out assault on American democracy and way of life, and if the response is giving a measured, carefully worded speech, then we are all fucked. 

[DMC]

1 minute ago, JGP said:

Exceptions to anger and frustration are solidarity, yo.

Not when it's directed at fellow posters, many of which, ya know, are women too.

[Ran]

9 minutes ago, KalVsWade said:

What a very odd counterpoint. No one mentioned or even hinted at the problem being too progressive or championing progressive causes.

The people screaming for young blood are in the main the young(ish), very liberal, highly educated people... who are precisely like the people that are pushing messaging and strategy that turns off the mainstream electorate. They want to do away with the "old ways" when analytical polling shows that for the most part the electorate is just fine with the "old ways"

Protest! Protesting is good! Organize! Also good! These are the wisdom of the ancients, too! But this bullshit about war time presidents and coups and killing fascists is histrionics. Every one of these outbursts is just evidence of a person living in a bubble of ideological confirmation.

 

[Phylum of Alexandria]

2 minutes ago, Ran said:

The people screaming for young blood are in the main the young(ish), very liberal, highly educated people... who are precisely like the people that are pushing messaging and strategy that turns off the mainstream electorate. They want to do away with the "old ways" when analytical polling shows that for the most part the electorate is just fine with the "old ways"

Protest! Protesting is good! Organize! Also good! These are the wisdom of the ancients, too! But this bullshit about war time presidents and coups and killing fascists is histrionics. Every one of these outbursts is just evidence of a person living in a bubble of ideological confirmation.

The rhetoric of Revolution is always in vogue, unfortunately. "Radical" on the right means potentially dangerous, while "radical" on the left just means unrealistically idealistic, closed to compromise or disagreement, and ultimately ineffectual.

I wish more people followed Richard Rorty (and Mark Lilla after him). Maybe we could actually grab power for meaningful change.

 

 

[JGP]

2 minutes ago, DMC said:

Not when it's directed at fellow posters, many of which, ya know, are women too.

Sure. Point remains.

Regardless, I got no beef with BB haranguing a generalized and perceived sentiment. Let women speak for themselves on that one, I think-- unless it violates board rules. Seems fair.   

The Board and many posters frequenting the Ukraine threads don't even know to be glad how often I restrain myself in there. But I am me. 

 

 

[LongRider]

1 minute ago, Ran said:

Protest! Protesting is good! Organize! Also good! These are the wisdom of the ancients, too! But this bullshit about war time presidents and coups and killing fascists is histrionics. Every one of these outbursts is just evidence of a person living in a bubble of ideological confirmation.

Ran, I have heard these very things from Dems for years.  I was told that the GOP would never kill Roe because the GOP would lose its biggest funding tactic of its base.   Talking about new blood isn't talking about young junior staffers.  It's about younger politicians, like Stacey Abrams and maybe Beto and a few others.  

There are many activists that have gone out and signed up women to run for office along the full spectrum of politics and other activists doing other things we don't talk about here.  They are out there, they are doing something, but we need more.

[Kalbear]

4 minutes ago, Ran said:

The people screaming for young blood are in the main the young(ish), very liberal, highly educated people... who are precisely like the people that are pushing messaging and strategy that turns off the mainstream electorate. They want to do away with the "old ways" when analytical polling shows that for the most part the electorate is just fine with the "old ways"

Protest! Protesting is good! Organize! Also good! These are the wisdom of the ancients, too! But this bullshit about war time presidents and coups and killing fascists is histrionics. Every one of these outbursts is just evidence of a person living in a bubble of ideological confirmation.

 

I don't think this is an accurate summation of the previous posters.

Specifically, the point repeatedly is that going for electoral solutions is not sufficient any more. And the wisdom of the ancient crowd - Biden, Pelosi, Schumer - are pushing to vote harder as the only solution they are offering.

This has nothing to do with increasing turnout of electorate, which is why I find your response so baffling. This is wanting officials to actually do things and get creative and actually fight instead of talking about how their hands are tied - or try to find common cause. If anything I would interpret it as a response against progressives because the goal is to do something, not something perfect. 

So do something with manchin. Do EOs even if some may fail. Stop promoting anti-abortion dems for seats. Get a more aggressive AG. Push at the norms the same way Republicans do. 

But stop considering this as a normal part of politics and stop treating the rules as applying only to your side when the other side doesn't give two shits about them.

 

[Tywin et al.]

2 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Ran, I have heard these very things from Dems for years.  I was told that the GOP would never kill Roe because the GOP would lose its biggest funding tactic of its base.   Talking about new blood isn't talking about young junior staffers.  It's about younger politicians, like Stacey Abrams and maybe Beto and a few others.  

Exactly. I'm not saying hand the party over to people in their 20s and the 30s. But is it too much to ask for someone in their 50s? When looking a Dem leaders Harris is the only one that's younger than 60, and the most important ones are in their 70s and 80s. Schumer is the spring chicken of the bunch at 71. 

If you aren't convinced that Democrats need to get younger I'd encourage you to watch hours of committee hearings on tech issues. It's painful to watch.