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[Spoilers] Episode 103 Discussion


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1 hour ago, DMC said:

I think you're overestimating how much I care what certain aspects of the fandom felt about certain characters, which is none.  If you don't think the show depicted Cersei as at least somewhat crazy in her villainy, you're simply wrong, no matter how many people agree with you.

 

Olivia Cooke is part of that certain aspect which you don't care about. 

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1 hour ago, butterweedstrover said:

Olivia Cooke is part of that certain aspect which you don't care about. 

No, she's really not in the quote you're alluding to:

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"I fucking love that comparison because Cersei was my favorite character," she said. "Alicent’s got a very dark side to her, but she’s also just striving for what she thinks is good, even though it’s just misplaced." [...]

"There are times where [Princess Rhaenyra Targaryen actor] Emma [D'Arcy] is on one stage and I'm on the other and we're both surrounded by [male characters] being idiotic," Cooke continued. "And we know if all these men just fucked off, and it was just us two, the realm would be fine. It's the meddling and the peacocking and egos that completely muddy everything."

She's identifying with Cersei's plight - and extrapolating that to the plight of Alicent AND Rhaenyra (which, btw, speaks to exactly what I'm saying) - but in the same breath she's acknowledging Alicent's "darkness" and how it reflects the comparison to Cersei.

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6 hours ago, DMC said:

No, she's really not in the quote you're alluding to:

She's identifying with Cersei's plight - and extrapolating that to the plight of Alicent AND Rhaenyra (which, btw, speaks to exactly what I'm saying) - but in the same breath she's acknowledging Alicent's "darkness" and how it reflects the comparison to Cersei.

Yeah, Cersei having a dark side does not equate to nutjob. People like her because of that edge to her character, both the good and bad. It's called complexity. Olivia also said she loved complicated characters in reference to Alicent. 

Cersei in the books is a nutjob, not someone with a dark and light side. She throws her friend down a well for no reason. 

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I do not get the Rhaenyra hatred at all.

Rhaenyra is acting like inheriting the throne is her right because she's a princess and she's been told she's the heir. She's also getting a shit ton of hot and cold mixed signals from her dad about how much she should express herself. This is because that both Viserys and Rhanerya have stupidly made the heirdom to be a symbol of her father loving her rather than a massive responsibility.

Except both DO see it as a massive responsibility. Viserys isn't preparing her to rule the kindgom, though, he's doomsday prepping for the zombie apocalypse and trying to impart on her that her job is to prepare for the Prince who was Promised not tax policy and accounting. People are irritated with her because she doesn't want to get married but she has issues with the fact her mother died in childbirth after a horrifying murdersection to get a male heir.

She's still determined to kill Morgoth when the time comes.

The only people she's mean to are her suitors and that's because she equates marriage with loss of freedom and death to an extent.

 

Edited by C.T. Phipps
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24 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

Yeah, Cersei having a dark side does not equate to nutjob. People like her because of that edge to her character, both the good and bad. It's called complexity. Olivia also said she loved complicated characters in reference to Alicent. 

Oye, I'm all out of tolerance for this type of brainless obstinance tonight.  Show Cersei is demonstrably depicted as mentally unstable, that's undeniable to any objective observer.  Is there complexity there too?  Of course!  Which is the entire point about Rhaenyra and Alicent.  They have conflicting and complex emotions that lead to conflicting and complex behavior.  That doesn't make them crazy like blowing up essentially the Martin-verse equivalent of the Vatican to kill your enemies.  Or maybe it does - eventually.  But for now it just makes them three dimensional characters that are interesting to follow.

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1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I do not get the Rhaenyra hatred at all.

Rhaenyra is acting like inheriting the throne is her right because she's a princess and she's been told she's the heir. She's also getting a shit ton of hot and cold mixed signals from her dad about how much she should express herself. This is because that both Viserys and Rhanerya have stupidly made the heirdom to be a symbol of her father loving her rather than a massive responsibility.

Except both DO see it as a massive responsibility. Viserys isn't preparing her to rule the kindgom, though, he's doomsday prepping for the zombie apocalypse and trying to impart on her that her job is to prepare for the Prince who was Promised not tax policy and accounting. People are irritated with her because she doesn't want to get married but she has issues with the fact her mother died in childbirth after a horrifying murdersection to get a male heir.

She's still determined to kill Morgoth when the time comes.

The only people she's mean to are her suitors and that's because she equates marriage with loss of freedom and death to an extent.

 

If she is a rebel and free spirit she would refuse her inheritance and prefer to run away. 
 

Instead she is both rebellious and obsessed with her inheritance. She was raised to think her duty was important yet she gleefully scorns that.

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3 minutes ago, DMC said:

The Red Wedding certainly proved the craziness of Tywin and Roose as well.

No one thinks Tywin is a psycho. A psycho is Gregor Clegane. They think he is a harsh man ready to do anything to win. 
 

A psycho is mentally unbalanced because their decisions have no reliable connection between cause and affect.  
 

Roose maybe, but that is because of the vampire stuff.

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51 minutes ago, DMC said:

Oye, I'm all out of tolerance for this type of brainless obstinance tonight.  Show Cersei is demonstrably depicted as mentally unstable, that's undeniable to any objective observer.  Is there complexity there too?  Of course!  Which is the entire point about Rhaenyra and Alicent.  They have conflicting and complex emotions that lead to conflicting and complex behavior.  That doesn't make them crazy like blowing up essentially the Martin-verse equivalent of the Vatican to kill your enemies.  Or maybe it does - eventually.  But for now it just makes them three dimensional characters that are interesting to follow.

Book Cersei is plainly heading towards the same place as Aerys II.

I don't think show Cersei was mentally unstable.  She was, however, pretty evil, at least in my opinion.  I don't know if D & D intended her to be seen as a tragic heroine, but I think that was down to the poor quality of their writing (they were in love with both her and Tyrion).  I share your view that the Sept scene was great.  The fact that she faced no consequences for it, however, either from the smallfolk or the nobility, was ludicrous.

Edited by SeanF
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19 minutes ago, butterweedstrover said:

No one thinks Tywin is a psycho.

Well, I do.  And Tyrion immediately voices the same opinion.  You seem to have a very narrow or specialized definition of "psycho."  Mass murder to kill your enemies is pretty psycho - and stupid - in my book, but YMMV.  The repercussions of that decision are still being wrought on Tywin's family in the books, which is entirely the point.

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On 9/12/2022 at 6:01 AM, C.T. Phipps said:

 

The only people she's mean to are her suitors and that's because she equates marriage with loss of freedom and death to an extent.

 

I think Lady Redwyne and co. would beg to differ ;)


If the trailers are any indication, Olivia is playing Alicent as completely neurotic, so she might be a lot less sympathetic after the jump.

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