I genuinely hope that Daeron II was Aemon’s child.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

After all the injustices of Aegon IV’s reign it’d be really satisfying that his successor was not his son and that his heir was the result of being cuckolded.

[Craving Peaches]

Yes. I agree. It would mean that Daemon was right.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

39 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Yes. I agree. It would mean that Daemon was right.

Nah screw Daemon. Badass character but I’m firmly On Daeron’s side. One of the few actually decent Targ kings.

[Craving Peaches]

28 minutes ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

Nah screw Daemon. Badass character but I’m firmly On Daeron’s side. One of the few actually decent Targ kings.

Fair enough. But I think Daemon was a nice guy. I don't like Bloodraven and his police state.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

1 minute ago, Craving Peaches said:

Fair enough. But I think Daemon was a nice guy. I don't like Bloodraven and his police state.

I’m partial to the theory that BR has manipulated much to be sure that he brought Jon into existence 

[Canon Claude]

1 hour ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

I’m partial to the theory that BR has manipulated much to be sure that he brought Jon into existence 

If that’s true, then I’ll root for the Others to win. To hell with obviously evil actions being justified by “the greater good”, I’m so sick of that awful trope. 

[Craving Peaches]

26 minutes ago, Canon Claude said:

To hell with obviously evil actions being justified by “the greater good”, I’m so sick of that awful trope. 

Also "the greater good" is subjective, Bloodraven's "greater good" is not necessarily the Realm's.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

8 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Also "the greater good" is subjective, Bloodraven's "greater good" is not necessarily the Realm's.

True enough. But I believe that could be a major criticism that GRRM is trying to get across. Like I firmly believe that Azor Ahai was in fact the Bloodstone Emperor/Night King. And that Nissa Nissa is the true hero of the Long Night. A man willing to murder his beloved is no hero.

[Gilbert Green]

I doubt Aegon IV was cuckolded in the narrow sense.  More likely, Naerys was not a virgin on her wedding night, and Aemon was born 9 months later, give or take.  I think that fits the timeline, if I remember it aright.  Tell me if I'm wrong.

[EggBlue]

On 11/14/2022 at 6:15 PM, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

After all the injustices of Aegon IV’s reign it’d be really satisfying that his successor was not his son and that his heir was the result of being cuckolded.

me too ! 

and as far as Daemon's situation goes , I think he was right . he was Aegon III's descendant and Daeron's Aemon's son in my head canon . however, I'm team king Daeron because he's the better king , no matter how much of a great guy Daemon was.

[The hairy bear]

10 hours ago, Gilbert Green said:

I doubt Aegon IV was cuckolded in the narrow sense.  More likely, Naerys was not a virgin on her wedding night, and Aemon was born 9 months later, give or take.  I think that fits the timeline, if I remember it aright.  Tell me if I'm wrong.

You are not wrong. Aegon IV and Naerys were married during 153 AC, and prince Daeron is born in the last day of that year. 153 is also the year when Aemon the Dragonknight decides to join the kingsguard...

I'd also like to think that Aegon wasn't that horrible, and that an Aemon and Naerys weren't the saints that people believe they were.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

16 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

You are not wrong. Aegon IV and Naerys were married during 153 AC, and prince Daeron is born in the last day of that year. 153 is also the year when Aemon the Dragonknight decides to join the kingsguard...

I'd also like to think that Aegon wasn't that horrible, and that an Aemon and Naerys weren't the saints that people believe they were.

While I understand wanting more morally grey chapters, I will think you can be evil, even if not pure evil. I think that sometimes given the right circumstances of birth, nurturing, and nature can create someone as close to pure evil as possible. Someone like Euron, and I also think Aegon IV

[Gilbert Green]

22 minutes ago, The hairy bear said:

You are not wrong. Aegon IV and Naerys were married during 153 AC, and prince Daeron is born in the last day of that year. 153 is also the year when Aemon the Dragonknight decides to join the kingsguard...

I'd also like to think that Aegon wasn't that horrible, and that an Aemon and Naerys weren't the saints that people believe they were.

Thank you for checking for me.  It's been a while. 

My vote would be against too much moral greyness though.  Vive la difference!

[EggBlue]

4 minutes ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

While I understand wanting more morally grey chapters, I will think you can be evil, even if not pure evil. I think that sometimes given the right circumstances of birth, nurturing, and nature can create someone as close to pure evil as possible. Someone like Euron, and I also think Aegon IV

I think it's not fair to assume that Aegon IV had always been so different from his siblings and cousins . they all grew up together after all and with the exception of Baelor and Aegon , they all turned out fine .  I'd say he was more of a grey character in youth and turned almost pure evil as time went by to the point he was ready to get rid of his siblings and his "son" all in the same time , not to mention , his treatment of Bethany was his lowest point. we are talking about a kid abandoned by his mother and I dare say neglected by his father who entered a relationship with a 24 yr old at the age of 14 . he definitely had some problems ! it's different with Euron and Ramsay , they show their sociopathic signs early on  and their upbringing doesn't help . (the fact that Victarion is considered the best Greyjoy brother speaks volumes of the fucked-up-ness of Greyjoy household!)

[Gilbert Green]

I don't think we'll find out too much more about the Aemon/Aegon/Naerys/Daeron situation.  I think we have what we have, and that GRRM intends us to read between the lines and conclude that Daeron is Aemon's son, conceived before the marriage to Aegon, but that they were both true to their vows afterwards, and loved from afar.

We may find out somewhat more, though, about the Bonifer/Aerys/Rhaella/Rhaegar situation.  And I suspect there will be parallels.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

31 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said:

I don't think we'll find out too much more about the Aemon/Aegon/Naerys/Daeron situation.  I think we have what we have, and that GRRM intends us to read between the lines and conclude that Daeron is Aemon's son, conceived before the marriage to Aegon, but that they were both true to their vows afterwards, and loved from afar.

We may find out somewhat more, though, about the Bonifer/Aerys/Rhaella/Rhaegar situation.  And I suspect there will be parallels.

I suspect a Blackfyre Rebellion book could happen. Maybe a TV show.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

32 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said:

I don't think we'll find out too much more about the Aemon/Aegon/Naerys/Daeron situation.  I think we have what we have, and that GRRM intends us to read between the lines and conclude that Daeron is Aemon's son, conceived before the marriage to Aegon, but that they were both true to their vows afterwards, and loved from afar.

We may find out somewhat more, though, about the Bonifer/Aerys/Rhaella/Rhaegar situation.  And I suspect there will be parallels.

Oh definitely. I’m not saying he was always that evil. But I think by the time he backs King he was probably beyond the point of no return.

[BlackLightning]

21 minutes ago, KingEuronGreyjoy said:

I suspect a Blackfyre Rebellion book could happen. Maybe a TV show.

I think the second volume of Fire and Blood will climax with the Blackfyre Rebellion just like how the first volume climaxed with the Dance of the Dragons

 

[_Bittersteel_]

54 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

I think the second volume of Fire and Blood will climax with the Blackfyre Rebellion just like how the first volume climaxed with the Dance of the Dragons

 

Perhaps HOTD will continue past the Dance into the 1st Blackfyre Rebellion.

 

[BlackLightning]

9 minutes ago, _Bittersteel_ said:

Perhaps HOTD will continue past the Dance into the 1st Blackfyre Rebellion.

It would be interesting.

There'd be no lack of material by the time that HOTD gets to the end of the Dance. The Dance has just begun and season 2 isn't coming out until early 2024. Volume 2 of Fire and Blood probably will come out before 2027: which would around the time HOTD ends.