Controversial ASoIaF Opinions

[Craving Peaches]

13 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Well the ome to send viper to court to get justice for their family sorta worked.....just at a high price

Did it really though? Oberyn is dead, Gregor is undead, and the 'confession' Oberyn got from him has done nothing. People already knew who was really responsible.

[Corvo the Crow]

15 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Some people say Tyrion will ride Viserion. I don't think Tyrion deserves Viserion. If someone has to ride Viserion let it be Jaime rather than Tyrion. Viserion's colouration matches the Kingsguard.

And despite Tyrion being called a monster for his appearence, he didn't choose Marei, Jaime is the more TargAryan one in that regard.

[Craving Peaches]

2 minutes ago, Corvo the Crow said:

And despite Tyrion being called a monster for his appearence, he didn't choose Marei, Jaime is the more TargAryan one in that regard.

I don't think any of these theories are necessary, but I prefer A + J = J + C to A + J = T.

[Corvo the Crow]

2 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I don't think any of these theories are necessary, but I prefer A + J = J + C to A + J = T.

I like it better as well because a) the twins are incestous, a) TargAryan trait and b) it would mean that both brothers have killed their own fathers.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

Fairly controversial: I don't like the Hound very much. I know that he's supposed to be a Beauty and the Beast-type character, but I just find him creepy and overall unlikable. 

[sifth]

I think ADWD is the worst book in the series. It's basically a book of all setup and no payoff. The fact that the timeline catches up and even goes beyond AFFC's makes things even more confusing.

[King_Tristifer_IV_Mudd]

The series will end with all magic dying in the world. The spring that brings life to the new world after a harsh winter.

[Loose Bolt]

Euron and Team Hightower (Mad Maid and Lord Leyton) will kill each other in magical duel and their battle will cause massive collateral damage. In fact I assume destruction of Hardhome, Doom of Valyria and Summerhall were caused by magic. Or we will see how dangerous and high price of using magic in Planetos could be.

[Groo]

6 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Taena Merryweather's son is Robert Baratheon's bastard, which is why she doesn't want to bring him to court when Cersei suggests it.

I really like this idea, although I'm still inclined to think she's just too smart to expose the kid to Cersei and all the danger that entails.

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

13 minutes ago, Groo said:

I really like this idea, although I'm still inclined to think she's just too smart to expose the kid to Cersei and all the danger that entails.

I mean, Robert is supposed to have 16 children, and we have only met a few of them.

[LongRider]

I really don't like dragons, one thing likeable about these dragons though is that they don't talk.

[astarkchoice]

6 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Did it really though? Oberyn is dead, Gregor is undead, and the 'confession' Oberyn got from him has done nothing. People already knew who was really responsible.

Well the confession got a rumour confirmed, gregor was dead (he just came back....cant plan for that) and im believer that tywins unnatural  stink and being on the can when tyrion pops up  was posion at work! 

[astarkchoice]

23 minutes ago, LongRider said:

I really don't like dragons, one thing likeable about these dragons though is that they don't talk.

If they also  hoarded gold the lannisters would be in trouble

[Angel Eyes]

My main controversial opinion is that everything disliked about the show are the books' flaws writ large.

[Gilbert Green]

9 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Fairly controversial: I don't like the Hound very much. I know that he's supposed to be a Beauty and the Beast-type character, but I just find him creepy and overall unlikable. 

Not sure how you'd define "Beauty-and-Beast-type" character.  But it seems to me that, at best, it refers to something that has not happened yet.

My own "controversial" opinion about Sandor is that Sansa does not find him attractive; nor is there any particularly good reason why she should.  Her ideal man is physically beautiful and morally upstanding - and Sandor is neither.  Rather, she is afraid of Sandor, and this time with good reason.  Since she fled King's Landing, she has a new reason to be afraid of him -- she is reputedly the killer of Joffrey, and Sandor was at one time loyal to Joffrey.

This should not be controversial; as it is exactly what the text tells us.  But somehow .... 

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

11 hours ago, Gilbert Green said:

My own "controversial" opinion about Sandor is that Sansa does not find him attractive; nor is there any particularly good reason why she should.

For what it’s worth, GRRM himself has said that he “played with it in the books” and that “there’s something there”.

Which isn’t surprising, since he worked on the Beauty and the Beast show in the 80’s.

 

[Springwatch]

14 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

My main controversial opinion is that everything disliked about the show are the books' flaws writ large.

I don't think flaws, but I've a suspicion that all/some of the truly mad and pointless things of the show happened because they asked GRRM a question - such as where does Bronn end up? The answer making total sense in a convoluted metaphysical way to the books, but making no sense at all in the show.

[astarkchoice]

23 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Fairly controversial: I don't like the Hound very much. I know that he's supposed to be a Beauty and the Beast-type character, but I just find him creepy and overall unlikable. 

I think hes supposed to be (literaly and figuratively) the 1st  ugly.truth for sansa. For a girl who spends her day in dreamworld about what a knight is supposed to be (handsome, good mannered ,well dressed and knows all the little high society politeness) hes  a wake up call ,a cold ill.mannered brute who if ordered will murder kids. Between her slow  revelations of joffery being a sociopath, the kingsguard being lackys whol beat her ,no one at kingslanding protrecting her and the queens fun little sex talks.

 

With her muddled mind of what a knight is supposed to be and him.actualy protecting her ( in his  own way )may be why she  thought she may have been kissed by her protector knight... just as shed always thought she would be  as a kid

[Gilbert Green]

2 hours ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

For what it’s worth, GRRM himself has said that he “played with it in the books” and that “there’s something there”.

Which isn’t surprising, since he worked on the Beauty and the Beast show in the 80’s.

Something there?  Sure.  But what exactly?  If you look at the original context of the interview, GRRM definitely seems to want to distance himself from the San-San fantasies.  And I don't recall him drawing any "Beauty and the Beast" connection.  When he said he played with "it" in the books, the "it" that he has played with, seems to refer very vaguely to the idea that Sandor and Sansa as a romantic couple.

And he certainly has played with "it" in the sense that we know that Sandor is attracted to Sansa in some way; and hence feels hurt in some way by her (justified) terror and horror of him.

Also, when he says he "played with it" in the books, he is defending HBO from the charge of inventing San-San.  He knows the San-San fans were responding to what he wrote in the books, before the HBO show even aired.

And, he is talking in the past tense.  Context indicates he is referring only to what he has already written.  There was no promise of things to come; no intent to give away future spoilers.  So whatever you think he was referring to, you must find it in the books.   Otherwise, this quote adds nothing to what we already know.

Here's the original context, from a 2012 interview with Geek and Sundry channel:

x-----------------------------------------x

GRRM:  I am sometimes surprised by the reactions of women in particular to some of the villains [emphasis in original audio].  I mean the number over the years who have written me that their favorite characters are Jaime Lannister or Sandor Clegane the Hound or Theon Greyjoy -- all of these are deeply troubled individuals with some very dark sides who have done some very dark things.  But nonetheless they do draw this response and quite heavily in the case of some of them from my female readers in particular.

FEMALE HOST:  I'm a big fan of the Hound myself actually.  [snip some]  I'm not going to call it attraction actually.  It's a fascination perhaps

GRRM:  Well, fascination is one thing, but some of these letters indicate that there really is a romantic attraction going on there.  And I do know there's all these people out there who are as they call themselves the San San fans who want to see Sandor and Sansa get together at the end. 

MALE HOST:   The TV show has played with that a little and probably stoked those fires ...

GRRM:  And I've played with it in the book.  There's something there but it's still interesting to see how many people have responded.

[Gilbert Green]

37 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

I think hes supposed to be (literaly and figuratively) the 1st  ugly.truth for sansa. For a girl who spends her day in dreamworld about what a knight is supposed to be (handsome, good mannered ,well dressed and knows all the little high society politeness) hes  a wake up call ,a cold ill.mannered brute who if ordered will murder kids. Between her slow  revelations of joffery being a sociopath, the kingsguard being lackys whol beat her ,no one at kingslanding protrecting her and the queens fun little sex talks.

The philosophy that Sandor champions is an ugly lie, not an ugly truth.

The ugly truth, for Sansa, is that Joffrey is not the True Knight that she fantasized that he was.  He is merely a monstrous brute with too much power.  A related ugly truth is that True Knights, if they exist at all, are vanishingly rare. 

The ugly lie, championed and (mostly) embodied by Sandor and actively resisted by Sansa, is that Joffrey and Sandor and all the False Knights have no obligation to be anything else than the brute monsters they too often are.

Sansa is not immune to an attraction for strong and powerful men.  But she can't seem to let go of the idea that men also have other moral obligations, besides being strong and powerful.  For her, might does not make right.  And (though it is really a separate question) brute might is not quite enough to make a man seem especially sexy to her either.

37 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

With her muddled mind of what a knight is supposed to be and him.actualy protecting her ( in his  own way )may be why she  thought she may have been kissed by her protector knight... just as shed always thought she would be  as a kid

Sansa is not muddled.  You are.  You praise Sandor for protecting her, but then endorse Sandor's philosophy that he has no obligation to protect her.

Sansa is an honest girl who gives credit where due.  She notices when Sandor protects her; just as she notices when Tyrion is kind to her.  But it does not follow that either man is her ideal erotic fantasy.

Her primary emotion towards Sandor is one of terror.  This terror proves entirely justified, when he gets drunk and comes to her room to rape her at knifepoint.  And her primary emotion at that point was abject terror as well.  Since fear drives out all else, I don't think she had time for any sexy feelings at the point he was holding a knife to her throat.  But if she did, certainly the text fails to mention them.

Yes, GRRM keeps dropping clues that Sansa's memory, especially of things that frighten her, are not necessarily accurate.  He plans to use this at some point, I'm sure.

But probably the primary reason for her false memory of the "unkiss" is not that she finds Sandor especially sexy, but rather because she is trying not remember the knife to her throat.  Which is what actually happened.