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Jon Snow is likely to go insane


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On 1/14/2023 at 6:24 AM, Damsel in Distress said:

I posted a comment on this in 2017. 

If R + L = J is true, then Jon Snow is the one who will go insane.  He will have incidences of insanity from the Stark as well as the Targaryen side.  His kin, Arya Stark, is already insane. 

 

I edited, updated, and re-posted below:

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Rumors of Targaryen Madness is an Exaggeration.  And a slander against the ruling House Targaryen

 

The prevalence of the madness that runs in the family is exaggerated.  A careful study of the Targaryen lineage shows that this madness is not as prevalent as their enemies would have us believe.

 

    Targaryen + Targaryen = Maegor the Cruel
    Arryn + Targaryen = Rhaenyra
    Hightower + Targaryen = Aegon II
    Rogare + Targaryen = Aegon IV
    Velaryon + Targaryen = Baelor the Blessed
    Dayne + Targaryen = Aerion Brightflame
    Kiera + Targaryen = Vaela
    Targaryen + Targaryen = Aerys II

 

In red - female parent. Non-Targaryen female parent. 

Italics – unclear whether these people were mad or simply just cruel. Vaela is likely someone who just had a below average mental capacity. 

What interests me most is that the majority of the so-called “mad” members of the family were not the direct result of T + T but rather the result of what appears to be normal pairings.  A second item of note is that the madness happens more often when the mother comes from outside the family.  This means the carriers of the madness are the male Targaryens.  Thirdly, because we are dealing with a fantasy world in which real genetics may not completely hold true, we can assume that anyone whose father is a Targaryen will have an equal chance of going mad as any other member of the family with a Targaryen father.  Also note that we have not had a female Targaryen of whom we can clearly point out as mad.  None.  Rhaenyra was a b* but being a difficult person does not make one mad.  Maegor was cruel but that doesn’t mean he was mad.  If cruelty alone make one mad then Tywin and Stannis could be labeled insane. 

 

Implications are as follows:

 

    1.  The Targaryens are the most prominent family in the series of A Song of Ice and Fire.  I do not believe George R R Martin will end this family line.  I think the family just needed a fresh start and based on my theory that the males carry the potentially damaging gene it makes sense to eliminate the male line and begin anew with a perfect Targaryen female.  Who is, of course, the Mother of Dragons herself, Daenerys Targaryen.
    2.  The Targaryen dragons also needed a refresh.  The heroine delivered once more and hatched three eggs.
    3.  Daenerys Targaryen is just fine.  She will not go mad.  Her future children are not going to go mad. 
    4.  Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon.  Should this theory of his parentage prove to be true, that Rhaegar is the father and Lyanna Stark the mother, it is very likely that it will be Jon who will go insane.

 My verdict?  Jon has a much greater chance of going mad than Daenerys. 

:agree:

The Dany haters can't really have it their way.  Either Jon is not Rheagar's son and has no claim to Westeros.  Or he is Rhaegar's son and just as likely to go insane as any Targaryen.  I say Jon has a higher chance of going batshit crazy because of his short temper, wolf bond, and having Lyanna's wolf blood.  The bond with the direwolf make Jon's sanity even more fragile. 

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54 minutes ago, Victor Newman said:

The Dany haters can't really have it their way.  Either Jon is not Rheagar's son and has no claim to Westeros.  Or he is Rhaegar's son and just as likely to go insane as any Targaryen.

This may come as a surprise to you but there is the possibility of Jon being Rhaegar's son and the true ruler of Westeros and not being insane. But I know you don't want that because it would be an inconvenience to precious Daenerys.

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On 1/14/2023 at 9:24 AM, Damsel in Distress said:

I posted a comment on this in 2017. 

If R + L = J is true, then Jon Snow is the one who will go insane.  He will have incidences of insanity from the Stark as well as the Targaryen side.  His kin, Arya Stark, is already insane. 

 

I edited, updated, and re-posted below:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Rumors of Targaryen Madness is an Exaggeration.  And a slander against the ruling House Targaryen

 

The prevalence of the madness that runs in the family is exaggerated.  A careful study of the Targaryen lineage shows that this madness is not as prevalent as their enemies would have us believe.

 

    Targaryen + Targaryen = Maegor the Cruel
    Arryn + Targaryen = Rhaenyra
    Hightower + Targaryen = Aegon II
    Rogare + Targaryen = Aegon IV
    Velaryon + Targaryen = Baelor the Blessed
    Dayne + Targaryen = Aerion Brightflame
    Kiera + Targaryen = Vaela
    Targaryen + Targaryen = Aerys II

 

In red - female parent. Non-Targaryen female parent. 

Italics – unclear whether these people were mad or simply just cruel. Vaela is likely someone who just had a below average mental capacity. 

What interests me most is that the majority of the so-called “mad” members of the family were not the direct result of T + T but rather the result of what appears to be normal pairings.  A second item of note is that the madness happens more often when the mother comes from outside the family.  This means the carriers of the madness are the male Targaryens.  Thirdly, because we are dealing with a fantasy world in which real genetics may not completely hold true, we can assume that anyone whose father is a Targaryen will have an equal chance of going mad as any other member of the family with a Targaryen father.  Also note that we have not had a female Targaryen of whom we can clearly point out as mad.  None.  Rhaenyra was a b* but being a difficult person does not make one mad.  Maegor was cruel but that doesn’t mean he was mad.  If cruelty alone make one mad then Tywin and Stannis could be labeled insane. 

 

Implications are as follows:

 

    1.  The Targaryens are the most prominent family in the series of A Song of Ice and Fire.  I do not believe George R R Martin will end this family line.  I think the family just needed a fresh start and based on my theory that the males carry the potentially damaging gene it makes sense to eliminate the male line and begin anew with a perfect Targaryen female.  Who is, of course, the Mother of Dragons herself, Daenerys Targaryen.
    2.  The Targaryen dragons also needed a refresh.  The heroine delivered once more and hatched three eggs.
    3.  Daenerys Targaryen is just fine.  She will not go mad.  Her future children are not going to go mad. 
    4.  Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon.  Should this theory of his parentage prove to be true, that Rhaegar is the father and Lyanna Stark the mother, it is very likely that it will be Jon who will go insane.

 My verdict?  Jon has a much greater chance of going mad than Daenerys. 

The incidence of madness is not even high.  The Targaryens were in the spotlight for 300 years and only Aerys and Aerion were mental.  I don't think Dany will go mental.  

I am biased to M + L = J (M = Mance Rayder).  You are right though.  R + L = J puts Jon at a greater risk for madness if it truly runs in the family and not some sabotage from the Maesters poisoning the Targaryens.  

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On 1/14/2023 at 9:24 AM, Damsel in Distress said:

I posted a comment on this in 2017. 

If R + L = J is true, then Jon Snow is the one who will go insane.  He will have incidences of insanity from the Stark as well as the Targaryen side.  His kin, Arya Stark, is already insane. 

 

I edited, updated, and re-posted below:

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Rumors of Targaryen Madness is an Exaggeration.  And a slander against the ruling House Targaryen

 

The prevalence of the madness that runs in the family is exaggerated.  A careful study of the Targaryen lineage shows that this madness is not as prevalent as their enemies would have us believe.

 

    Targaryen + Targaryen = Maegor the Cruel
    Arryn + Targaryen = Rhaenyra
    Hightower + Targaryen = Aegon II
    Rogare + Targaryen = Aegon IV
    Velaryon + Targaryen = Baelor the Blessed
    Dayne + Targaryen = Aerion Brightflame
    Kiera + Targaryen = Vaela
    Targaryen + Targaryen = Aerys II

 

In red - female parent. Non-Targaryen female parent. 

Italics – unclear whether these people were mad or simply just cruel. Vaela is likely someone who just had a below average mental capacity. 

What interests me most is that the majority of the so-called “mad” members of the family were not the direct result of T + T but rather the result of what appears to be normal pairings.  A second item of note is that the madness happens more often when the mother comes from outside the family.  This means the carriers of the madness are the male Targaryens.  Thirdly, because we are dealing with a fantasy world in which real genetics may not completely hold true, we can assume that anyone whose father is a Targaryen will have an equal chance of going mad as any other member of the family with a Targaryen father.  Also note that we have not had a female Targaryen of whom we can clearly point out as mad.  None.  Rhaenyra was a b* but being a difficult person does not make one mad.  Maegor was cruel but that doesn’t mean he was mad.  If cruelty alone make one mad then Tywin and Stannis could be labeled insane. 

 

Implications are as follows:

 

    1.  The Targaryens are the most prominent family in the series of A Song of Ice and Fire.  I do not believe George R R Martin will end this family line.  I think the family just needed a fresh start and based on my theory that the males carry the potentially damaging gene it makes sense to eliminate the male line and begin anew with a perfect Targaryen female.  Who is, of course, the Mother of Dragons herself, Daenerys Targaryen.
    2.  The Targaryen dragons also needed a refresh.  The heroine delivered once more and hatched three eggs.
    3.  Daenerys Targaryen is just fine.  She will not go mad.  Her future children are not going to go mad. 
    4.  Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon.  Should this theory of his parentage prove to be true, that Rhaegar is the father and Lyanna Stark the mother, it is very likely that it will be Jon who will go insane.

 My verdict?  Jon has a much greater chance of going mad than Daenerys. 

I don’t accept the theory of Jon having been fathered by Rhaegar. If I’m wrong and it’s true, Jon is at bigger risk because of the gender phenomenon you  pointed out.  

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The three top characters, Tyrion, Jon, and Daenerys should not go insane.  That removes agency and freedom of choice, and thus responsibility and culpability.  But solely based on the premise of the subject, yes, if Jon is Targaryen then it stands to reason that his chances of going nuts is the same or more. 

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On 1/14/2023 at 11:28 AM, Phylum of Alexandria said:

If anyone is wondering which commenter is likely to go insane, it's me from all of these topic posts about who's going to go insane. /cdn-cgi/mirage/9e2abca898daf80e730b034dde4f3e881a86bebfc7507f1e08781367eaa971d8/1280/https://asoiaf.westeros.org/uploads/emoticons/default_blink.png

Only if your name is Jon Snow. Rhaegar’s illegitimate son is the one most likely to.  :D

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17 minutes ago, H Wadsworth Longfellow said:

Historical data does show the males are the ones going insane.  Historical data is a great clue because it shows a pattern over a long period of time.  Just like the Baratheon family album.  I agree with @Damsel in Distress It is a good theory to me.  

Historically there have been many more ruling Kings than Queens, so statistically it makes sense that there have been more insane male rulers than female ones. It doesn’t mean Kings lose their mind more than Queens.

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On 1/18/2023 at 10:41 AM, Craving Peaches said:

"Oops, I accidentally set off the Wildfire cache at King's Landing."

Arya will set it off on purpose.  There's no oops.  It's a stony faced Arya watching the city burn shortly after she ignites the Wildfire.  Jon's reaction will not be the expected shock as he will be beyond such emotions after the Others raise him from death.  

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Just now, Rondo said:

Arya will set it off on purpose.  There's no oops.  It's a stony faced Arya watching the city burn shortly after she ignites the Wildfire.  Jon's reaction will not be the expected shock as he will be beyond such emotions after the Others raise him from death.  

Rondo, I was wondering, you know your friend Tai Pan? I haven't seen them in a while. Will they be here soon to give more insight on the Starks as well?

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On 1/16/2023 at 9:33 PM, James West said:

The incidence of madness is not even high.  The Targaryens were in the spotlight for 300 years and only Aerys and Aerion were mental.  I don't think Dany will go mental. 

Rhaegel was pretty nuts. Maegor wasn't exactly stable. Helaena went loopy. Viserys III doesn't convince as a wholly sane person. I'm not entirely persuaded Baelor was all there, either.

Remember, the line that the gods flip a coin to decide whether a Targaryen will be great or mad, while exaggerated, was something apparently said by a Targaryen.

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On 1/21/2023 at 7:53 PM, Craving Peaches said:

Rondo, I was wondering, you know your friend Tai Pan? I haven't seen them in a while. Will they be here soon to give more insight on the Starks as well?

Craving Peaches, I believe I understand what you are insinuating at.  I saw where you have been throwing my name around in other threads.  It is soft slander.  If you believe there is fraud going on then by all means report it to the Site Administrators.  Know this, I believe there is fraud from the Anti-Daenerys, Pro-Stark fans and would like to report the following accounts (Craving Peaches, KingEuronGreyjoy, The Last Wolf, Corvo the Crow, and Maegor Targaryen I ) be checked for duplicates. 

Craving Peaches, I say this in the interest of goodwill and want to avoid confrontation.  Please accept it as such.  Trying to intimidate people who do not agree with you has been tried many times.  Just about all of the personal attacks are coming from the Anti-Daenerys, Pro-Stark fans.  It doesn't work.  

I am not attacking you.  I do have a right to speak on my behalf and defend myself after you have thrown my name around.  Feel free to have my user account inspected.  I only ask the Administrators to check yours and those listed as well.  It is only fair.  I believe you would consider that also fair.  Put this question to rest so we can move on with interesting discussions.  

 

@Ran

Edited by Rondo
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If you have concerns that someone has alts or is trolling, report it rather than baselessly accusing people. More of this nonsense, which seems to be proliferating lately, and there will be bans.

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21 hours ago, Ran said:

If you have concerns that someone has alts or is trolling, report it rather than baselessly accusing people. More of this nonsense, which seems to be proliferating lately, and there will be bans.

Sorry but the real nonsense is that people can gang up(alt account not implied) with like minded individuals(see, no mention of alt accounts) on threads purposefully opened as hate threads, not once or twice but over and over and over again at the very least(the period I have been able to observe) for months on end. Coincidentally, these are all Daenerys "enthusiasts" for lack of a specific term that would cause to get tickets. Also so coincidentally, there doesn't seem to be any repercussions for these threads that have obviously created with the sole purpose of being hate threads, but if you open a thread on Dany that actually warrants valid discussion, it will get locked down. 

 

 

 

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The long story short or short story long of this can be distilled down to one important and inescapable conclusion.  If R + L = J posits Rhaegar as the father of Jon Snow and it is true then it is inescapable that Jon has the same chances of going insane as every other Targaryen.  It's pointless to argue against it because it's true. 

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