A Sword Without a Hilt

[Phylum of Alexandria]

How does GRRM depict magic in ASOIAF, and how does it contribute to the story he’s telling?

One of the things that made A Game of Thrones unique when it was first released was that it was a fantasy story that nevertheless put a lot of effort in establishing a sense of realism.

This realism serves as a crucial setup for when magic does come onto the scene. Magic exists in this world, but for most of the books, the very notion of supernatural powers or creatures is dismissed as silly children’s stories. When such moments do come, they are usually witnessed in disbelief or horror.

Of course, GRRM needs readers to understand that supernatural powers really do exist in ASOIAF, and so we get an early glimpse of the Others and the animated corpse of Waymar Royce right at the start of the series. Yet afterwards, such moments are few and far between. And even that AGOT Prologue is structured around Waymar’s certainty about naturalistic explanations for what Will reported, a stance that we soon see pervades Westeros, largely thanks to the maesters.

Given this backdrop of skepticism and certainty, the magical elements of the story act as disruptors of the normal way of things. They are inherently un-natural, and thus unsettling to people who have come to see the world as fundamentally knowable and predictable.

Additionally, like any fantasy story, magic also represents “power.” The question is, what kind of power is GRRM depicting in this story?

"Dalla told me something once. Val's sister, Mance Rayder's wife. She said that sorcery was a sword without a hilt. There is no safe way to grasp it.”

"A wise woman." Melisandre rose, her red robes stirring in the wind. "A sword without a hilt is still a sword, though, and a sword is a fine thing to have when foes are all about.” — Jon VI, ADWD 

Mel may be right about whether using magic is necessary or justified, given the circumstances. But regardless of that, GRRM is crafting a fantasy story where all magic is unpredictable, costly, and inherently dangerous. No exceptions.

Even if it factors into the solution to the problems that plague the planet, the solution itself is part of that problem. That sounds like a contradiction, but the ASOIAF series is full of seeming contradictions.

Crafting a fantasy story that emphasizes realism is one such contradiction. Writing a hero’s tale that focuses on ambivalence and moral gray areas is another. Why not emphasize moral clarity and the need to vanquish evil people? Why instead write a story made from different, sometimes conflicting points of view? Why do some of our heroes sometimes do terrible things, or others do terrible things in their name?

Why all this focus on costs and consequences rather than the super-powered heroes serving up justice?

Because ASOIAF is first and foremost a fantasy story that critiques human power.

GRRM is no cynic and no simpleton, and so he doesn’t completely eviscerate the idea of wielding power. But he does ruminate on it, feeling its weight press upon him like a heavy crown atop his skull.

A bad fantasy story provides its readers with the flimsiest of armor as they face the ugly realities and complexities of life. GRRM wants a hero’s narrative that’s brave enough to acknowledge what so much fantasy fiction tends to ignore. He does seek to inspire us, but only after addressing the many things that can so easily make us fall into cynicism or despair.

Thus his relentless focus on the decisions his heroes make to exact justice, and what their actions might mean in terms of costs, consequences, and long-term viability.

ASOIAF is sometimes described as “anti-war,” and perhaps it is to some extent, but GRRM isn’t saying that war is never justified, or never necessary. It’s just that, regardless of the justification, it will always have untold costs and destructive consequences, even for the people who seemingly win. Even when fighting with the best swords or tanks available, to wage war is to wield a metaphorical “sword without a hilt.”

Magic in this story is no different. It is the fantasy world equivalent of untold power. It often seems like the best path to take, like the short cut to solving a difficult problem. Maybe it sometimes truly is the best path to take given certain circumstances, but that doesn’t make the path any less dangerous. There is no safe way to grasp this sword.

What if the magic used is the natural kind? Rituals performed for balance and fertility, and all that good stuff? Look at GRRM’s text and you’ll find that there is no such thing as “natural magic.” Even weirwood magic is weird and creepy, rooted in blood sacrifice, and can enable enormously destabilizing feats of destruction. Even if Bran’s time tampering doesn’t pan out, we already know that the Hammer of the Waters panned out. This too is a sword without a hilt, and young Bran would do well to tread carefully as he heads down his path as a greenseer.

What about those swords of heroes: the Valyrian steel blades, Dawn, or the legendary Lightbringer? Are they simply tools for the heroes to use as they fight evil? Maybe they will be. But we already know that Valyrian magic is rooted in fire and blood, and Valyrian steel may even require human sacrifice to make. Certainly the Lightbringer myth makes the role of sacrificial blood clear. Will Dawn be different? It’s an unknown at this point, but if it ends up merely being a helpful tool forged from a mysterious meteorite, it would go against everything else that GRRM has built up about magic, including magical weapons. Personally, methinks its description as pale milkglass is a little too close to the weirwoods and Others for comfort. But I digress.

For a while now, I have been trying to highlight various hints in that story that suggest to me that all magic on Planetos boils down to the weirwoods and their cousins. And that these entities may indeed be alien to Planetos, a strange invasive species come from afar long ago. Aside from the explanation working for me on a plot level given the various clues, one reason I think it makes sense is on a thematic level, with respect to how magic is treated throughout the story. Magic really does seem to be alien to the order of the planet, a global disruptor.

Perhaps it only became a disruptor once humans became players in this game of power across regions and terrains—that itself would be a fitting critique of human nature, as magic ultimately would serve as an amplifier of our own faults. Whatever the case may be, I have a hard time believing there will ever be peace in this world without its inhabitants removing the temptation to take the short path and throw the world back out of balance.

Maybe the dream of spring that GRRM is envisioning will require the death of the old gods, and all other potential swords without hilts. That certainly would be plenty bittersweet, and could usher in a new age where knowledge and scholarship really could take humanity into more reasonable, predictable, and more viably habitable terrains.

Just my two cents. What do you think?

[EggBlue]

the problem is not that the sword doesn't have a hilt , it's that it shouldn't be a sword in the first place and if it is you've gotta use it with open eyes.

the way I see it , the magic in itself is not alien to this world ,rather its exploitation by humans is ; which we had seen with Valyria for example.  magic is a disrupter to the system that this world functions in. however , all we see of this system throughout the story is corruption and disfunction . maesters try to craft a scholarly world without magic , but the result is their ignorance of a huge element of this world which is somewhat equivalent of the disregard and fear of medieval era for new scientific discoveries. so , by the end of the story , I don't expect the death of the Old Gods or the death of magic . I'm expecting something like freeing these forces .lol . meaning dragons and the Others will go back to their natural habitat

[Phylum of Alexandria]

32 minutes ago, EggBlue said:

the way I see it , the magic in itself is not alien to this world ,rather its exploitation by humans is ; which we had seen with Valyria for example.  magic is a disrupter to the system that this world functions in. however , all we see of this system throughout the story is corruption and disfunction . maesters try to craft a scholarly world without magic , but the result is their ignorance of a huge element of this world which is somewhat equivalent of the disregard and fear of medieval era for new scientific discoveries. so , by the end of the story , I don't expect the death of the Old Gods or the death of magic . I'm expecting something like freeing these forces .lol . meaning dragons and the Others will go back to their natural habitat

Well, as stated, I personally don't think there is a natural habitat to return to. Nevertheless, we agree that the fundamental disruptor lies in humans' use of this magic stuff. I guess for me it's hard to envision a future where dragons still exist yet no one is tempted to re-learn how to create dragon riders. "Natural" or not, dragons are Planetos' nuclear weapons.

I can envision some sort of Pact with the Others, I guess, given that they're limited to some extent by the conditions of their surroundings (sun and warmth = bad).

I definitely agree that a re-invigorated knowledge class will be essential to sustaining the future at the story's end. Whether that will or won't involve magic remains to be seen.

[Curled Finger]

Ah bitchen, a juicy topic indeed, thanks @Phylum of Alexandria.  Sorry, I'm not a great quote retriever, pardon my ineptitude here.  Recalling something Martin said about magic being the cause and ultimate cure for the seasons being out of whack in Westeros.  My little brain assumes further that magic is the ultimate cure for all that ails in this story just as it causes all the big wrong things here.  I could be wrong.  It would not be the first time.

A sword without a hilt is a blade that does what?  It cannot be grasped, but could be propelled by force and do great damage if sufficiently sharp and heavy enough.  If a blade is sentient it wouldn't really require a hilt.  Blades are a big deal throughout ASOAIF and all its side tales.  If @Seams was here she could tell us all about people as blades and blow our minds with all references appropriately cited and quoted along with dancing and singing with blades.  She's good that way.  I bring this up to stress how Martin constantly draws our attention to the interchangeability of men and weapons.  Men are blades, men are war hammers, men are weapons.  Their joining is the dancing and singing, the celebration, of death and maiming and misery.  What is a violent man without a moral compass?  What is any man with infinite universal power?  What is any pissed off guy on a stolen horse?  

So what then is the point of a sword having no hilt?  Control?  The need for the true ruler?  Suppression of magic? Ethnic or environmental cleansing?  Continental peace?  Human sacrifice?  More dragons?  A gathering of swords literally and metaphorically?  Killing the Maesters?   Can I vote for burning Melisandre?  I think not having a hilt nods to control and needing all things to be in balance.  If you have magic and even the simple evil that lives in men's hearts, the 2 must be balanced.  That takes control and that control may mean you cannot have a world wherein creatures such as dragons and Others may coexist with humans as a dominant population.  The Children seem to get that.  

Can't wait to read all the rest of what's coming.  Thanks for something good to read.  It's been a long winter.  

Edited January 19, 2023 by Curled Finger
dammit

[Loose Bolt]

I see magic as a phenomena that could make somebody rich and powerful. But price of that is that nobody could really control magic. Or it is too chaotic and powerful for that. In fact I assume that destruction of Hardhome, Valyria and Summerhall were caused by magic. Besides chances are very high that Euron, his fleet, Team Hightower (Mad Maid and Lord Leyton) and Oldtown will all be wiped out by magical duel between Euron and Team Hightower.

[LongRider]

Hi Curled, 

I have two magic quotes, see below.  Thought the one you wanted was there, well, here are a couple to ponder I guess.  

30 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Recalling something Martin said about magic being the cause and ultimate cure for the seasons being out of whack in Westeros. 

GRRM on magic

"It has been my intention from the start to gradually bring up the amount of magic in each successive volume of A Song of Ice and Fire, and that will continue. I will not rule out the possibility of a certain amount of "behind the scenes" magic, either. But while sorcerous events may impact on my characters, as with Renly or Lord Beric or Dany, their choices must ultimately remain their own."

***************************************
MAGIC IN FANTASY
Good question, Jason. The proper use of magic is one of the trickiest aspects of writing fantasy. If badly done, it can easily unbalance a book.

In my case, one of the things I did was go back and reread the Master, J.R.R. Tolkien. Virtually all high fantasy written today, including the work of most of the authors in LEGENDS, in heavily influenced by Tolkien.

Rereading LORD OF THE RINGS, it struck me very forcefully that Tolkien's use of magic is both subtle and sparing. Middle Earth is a world full of wonders, beyond a doubt, but very little magic is actually performed on stage. Gandalf is a wizard, for instance, but he does most of his fighting with a sword.

That seemed to be a much more effective way to go than by having someone mumbling spells every paragraph, so I tried to adapt a similar approach in A GAME OF THRONES.

********************************

 

[Curled Finger]

13 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Hi Curled, 

I have two magic quotes, see below.  Thought the one you wanted was there, well, here are a couple to ponder I guess.  

GRRM on magic

"It has been my intention from the start to gradually bring up the amount of magic in each successive volume of A Song of Ice and Fire, and that will continue. I will not rule out the possibility of a certain amount of "behind the scenes" magic, either. But while sorcerous events may impact on my characters, as with Renly or Lord Beric or Dany, their choices must ultimately remain their own."

***************************************
MAGIC IN FANTASY
Good question, Jason. The proper use of magic is one of the trickiest aspects of writing fantasy. If badly done, it can easily unbalance a book.

In my case, one of the things I did was go back and reread the Master, J.R.R. Tolkien. Virtually all high fantasy written today, including the work of most of the authors in LEGENDS, in heavily influenced by Tolkien.

Rereading LORD OF THE RINGS, it struck me very forcefully that Tolkien's use of magic is both subtle and sparing. Middle Earth is a world full of wonders, beyond a doubt, but very little magic is actually performed on stage. Gandalf is a wizard, for instance, but he does most of his fighting with a sword.

That seemed to be a much more effective way to go than by having someone mumbling spells every paragraph, so I tried to adapt a similar approach in A GAME OF THRONES.

********************************

 

Ah thanks LR, but no neither.  I think he was on a tirade with the one I'm trying to remember.  He said something like magic caused the seasons to go crazy and magic will fix them not some asteroid hitting...something like that at any rate.   Great quotes, though!  Love to hear you weigh in on the topic, this is some great thinking stuff here.

 

[Curled Finger]

20 minutes ago, Loose Bolt said:

I see magic as a phenomena that could make somebody rich and powerful. But price of that is that nobody could really control magic. Or it is too chaotic and powerful for that. In fact I assume that destruction of Hardhome, Valyria and Summerhall were caused by magic. Besides chances are very high that Euron, his fleet, Team Hightower (Mad Maid and Lord Leyton) and Oldtown will all be wiped out by magical duel between Euron and Team Hightower.

We widely presume (well I presume at least) that the flooding of the Neck and the breaking of the land bridge from Essos to Dorne was magic as well as the events you list, though it's interesting you don't list them.  I have to ask if you don't consider them magical events or forgot them or what?  No big deal just curious is all.  

[Phylum of Alexandria]

12 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Ah thanks LR, but no neither.  I think he was on a tirade with the one I'm trying to remember.  He said something like magic caused the seasons to go crazy and magic will fix them not some asteroid hitting...something like that at any rate.   Great quotes, though!  Love to hear you weigh in on the topic, this is some great thinking stuff here.

This came up in a recent discussion. From a So Spake Martin:

"The seasons are "completely fantasy based". There's no sci-fi type element to it at all."

I added some caveats to consider in that discussion, but for our purposes here I can accept that magic will likely play a significant role in the heroes' fight against global extinction. Dany's dragons seem tailor-made to kill some ice armies. Yet I think her dragons will die in the process, and her going into the Heart of Winter knowing the cost will be part of her final sacrifice of everything (not just the promise of rule but the very creatures that made her Mother of Dragons), for the greater good.

The problem being part of its own solution is something that GRRM has explored before, perhaps most notably in Fevre Dream.

Edited January 19, 2023 by Phylum of Alexandria

[Curled Finger]

1 minute ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

This came up in a recent discussion. From a So Spake Martin:

"The seasons are "completely fantasy based". There's no sci-fi type element to it at all."

I added some caveats to consider in that discussion, but for our purposes here I can accept that magic will likely play a significant role in the heroes' fight against global extinction. Dany's dragons seem tailor-made to kill some ice armies. Yet I think her dragons will die in the process, and her going into the Heart of Winter knowing the cost will be part of her final sacrifice of everything (not just the promise of rule but the very creatures that made her Mother of Dragons), for the greater good.

The problem being part of its own solution is something that GRRM has explored before, perhaps notably in Fevre Dream.

Ah thanks and that is closer.  This one has to go back a good 5 or 6 years.  He specifically said magic caused the seasons to go wonky.  Not go wonky, but you know.  I have seen your quote come up a few times.   Drats, I wish I could remember where i saw it.  

I am only willing to go so far as magic will have to defeat magic in end and that humans will have to pull it all together and carry on.  Will magic disappear?  I don't know.  If Bran is a greenseer and destined for endings I don't yet understand then I am a fool and simply don't understand.  The fool in me jumps up and down and waives a finger at you screeching "But he's a greenseer!  Greenseers are MAGIC!!!".  Sigh.  

Does Dany have to die?   She's not the only magical being in our triple threat to the crown.  She can't warg.  She can't skin change.  She can't green dream or greensee.  She isn't even much of a diplomat or statesperson or schemer.   She is decidedly bound to fire only power, awesome as that may be.  And she is the only one who seems to have fire power in any appreciable degree, Rest in Peace Ser Frog.  Is sacrifice the whole point of our fierce fire queen's story?  Is she our sword without the hilt?  

[Phylum of Alexandria]

6 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

Does Dany have to die?

She certainly doesn't have to, but aside from validating her own life story (and expunging the lurking stain of madness and tyranny from her family name) she wants nothing more than to settle down and have a home. I just don't envision Martin giving that to her. I don't think she was meant to rule, either, but she can be a force for good through "targeted" destabilization, up North. She already has acted as a noble destabilizer in-story, as the emancipator of Essosi slaves. This one would require much more personal sacrifice, something that Martin will demand of all of his heroes. In Dany's case, I do think her life is likely to be part of that sacrifice. But it won't be the abomination that was The-Thing-That-Will-Not-Be-Named. She will be a hero.

[Curled Finger]

2 minutes ago, Phylum of Alexandria said:

She certainly doesn't have to, but aside from validating her own life story (and expunging the lurking stain of madness and tyranny from her family name) she wants nothing more than to settle down and have a home. I just don't envision Martin giving that to her. I don't think she was meant to rule, either, but she can be a force for good through "targeted" destabilization, up North. She already has acted as a noble destabilizer in-story, as the emancipator of Essosi slaves. This one would require much more personal sacrifice, something that Martin will demand of all of his heroes. In Dany's case, I do think her life is likely to be part of that sacrifice. But it won't be the abomination that was The-Thing-That-Will-Not-Be-Named. She will be a hero.

All that kid has been through.  Sure makes me glad George RR Martin isn't really God!

[LongRider]

Trying to sort out my thoughts as to the magical system in ASOIAF.

The books start with a bang introducing the ice magic that is the White walkers.  As we progressed with the story, we get very few clues about them, other that it gets really cold when they come around.  On the other hand, we are introduced to the magic of wargs in the first chapter with the discovery of the direwolf pups who are magical creatures.  Jon is the only one who hears the white, pup who it seems wasn't making noise.  Warging and skinchanging magic is revealed, layer by layer as the story progresses. 

The two cities of Asshai by the Shadow and Valyria, were known for their magic.  In Valyria, there was dragon and their lords, blood magic and other types of magic and other types of Dark Arts and pernicious secrets.  The city suffered the doom and is now a smoking ruin.

Asshai, a city where no practice is forbidden, is known for its many citizens who practice their magic and spells out in the open.  Now the city had declined, and it is lightly inhabited, and many come to study magic and other types of knowledge there. 

Perhaps, as Loose Bolt noted; 

2 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

I see magic as a phenomena that could make somebody rich and powerful. But price of that is that nobody could really control magic. Or it is too chaotic and powerful for that. In fact I assume that destruction of Hardhome, Valyria and Summerhall were caused by magic.

Were the Valyrians too prideful with their dragons and magic, and they could control the uncontrollable?   Asshai declined but did not disappear, yet really the reason is unknown.  

Will Jon's not stepping up to fulfilling his inherent warging abilities help him or hurt him?  Bran has gloried in warging Summer to the extent that Jojen had to warn him to use that talent sparingly so as not to become lost in his wolf.  How will he use his growing powers as a greenseer?

Dani has learned on her own to ride Drogon, but can she control him?

Magic may be a disruptor, but disappear from Planetos?   No, I think not.

 

[Phylum of Alexandria]

4 minutes ago, LongRider said:

Magic may be a disruptor, but disappear from Planetos?   No, I think not.

 

Practically speaking, it seems a daunting task to wipe out all magical lifeforms and artifacts all over the planet. But it may be that Bran reveals something about the maws, how they catalyze the magic and perhaps how they can be wiped out. I don't know. I'm just following the feels. 

[Mourning Star]

Only death can pay for life.

I enjoyed the opening post here, and I would go even a step further. Please pardon my rant!

The story explores "the heart in conflict with itself", which I think is the very core of what life is, hard choices, free will.

Life is conflict. Life is inherently a state of change. All living things consume to survive. Life is a fleeting struggle.

Nothing burns like the cold. But only for a while. Then it gets inside you and starts to fill you up, and after a while you don't have the strength to fight it. It's easier just to sit down or go to sleep. They say you don't feel any pain toward the end. First you go weak and drowsy, and everything starts to fade, and then it's like sinking into a sea of warm milk. Peaceful, like.

Peace is death, or perhaps, at best, its lesser cousin, a dream.

"Look at them. They're young and strong, full of life and laughter. And lust, aye, more lust than they know what to do with. There will be many a bastard bred this night, I promise you. Why pity?"
"Because it will not last," Catelyn answered, sadly. "Because they are the knights of summer, and winter is coming."
"Lady Catelyn, you are wrong." Brienne regarded her with eyes as blue as her armor. "Winter will never come for the likes of us. Should we die in battle, they will surely sing of us, and it's always summer in the songs. In the songs all knights are gallant, all maids are beautiful, and the sun is always shining."
Winter comes for all of us, Catelyn thought. For me, it came when Ned died. It will come for you too, child, and sooner than you like. She did not have the heart to say it.

The idea that there is some theoretical perfect natural equilibrium is a illusion. The natural order is one of constant change and constant conflict. Change is natural and inevitable.

All men must die, and this is not unique to men. Night follows day, spring follows winter. Species evolve (change) or go extinct.

"Gone down into the earth," she answered. "Into the stones, into the trees. Before the First Men came all this land that you call Westeros was home to us, yet even in those days we were few. The gods gave us long lives but not great numbers, lest we overrun the world as deer will overrun a wood where there are no wolves to hunt them. That was in the dawn of days, when our sun was rising. Now it sinks, and this is our long dwindling. The giants are almost gone as well, they who were our bane and our brothers. The great lions of the western hills have been slain, the unicorns are all but gone, the mammoths down to a few hundred. The direwolves will outlast us all, but their time will come as well. In the world that men have made, there is no room for them, or us."
She seemed sad when she said it, and that made Bran sad as well. It was only later that he thought, Men would not be sad. Men would be wroth. Men would hate and swear a bloody vengeance. The singers sing sad songs, where men would fight and kill.

Seasons lasting for years is, I believe, a manifestation of a magical resistance to change, a resistance to the natural order of things.

"A man must know how to look before he can hope to see," said Lord Brynden. "Those were shadows of days past that you saw, Bran. You were looking through the eyes of the heart tree in your godswood. Time is different for a tree than for a man. Sun and soil and water, these are the things a weirwood understands, not days and years and centuries. For men, time is a river. We are trapped in its flow, hurtling from past to present, always in the same direction. The lives of trees are different. They root and grow and die in one place, and that river does not move them. The oak is the acorn, the acorn is the oak. And the weirwood … a thousand human years are a moment to a weirwood, and through such gates you and I may gaze into the past."

Even Weirwoods cannot withstand the flow of time forever, no matter how much they may try.

Edited January 20, 2023 by Mourning Star

[Loose Bolt]

On 1/19/2023 at 9:58 PM, Curled Finger said:

We widely presume (well I presume at least) that the flooding of the Neck and the breaking of the land bridge from Essos to Dorne was magic as well as the events you list, though it's interesting you don't list them.  I have to ask if you don't consider them magical events or forgot them or what?  No big deal just curious is all.  

I forgot them 

Edited January 21, 2023 by Loose Bolt
typo

[Curled Finger]

7 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

I forgot them 

Fair enough thanks for straightening me out

[Craving Peaches]

Perhaps magic is only a sword without a hilt for humans? Dragons, Others and the Children of the Forest don't seemed to be 'harmed' from using magic in the way humans are. This could be because humans have a degree of 'incompatibility' with magic, or it could be that humans are not channelling or using magic in the way they are 'supposed' to, while the magical creatures are.

[Curled Finger]

5 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Perhaps magic is only a sword without a hilt for humans? Dragons, Others and the Children of the Forest don't seemed to be 'harmed' from using magic in the way humans are. This could be because humans have a degree of 'incompatibility' with magic, or it could be that humans are not channelling or using magic in the way they are 'supposed' to, while the magical creatures are.

It is telling here that purely human characters seem to have no sway or real ways with magic.  Interesting indeed! 

[sweetsunray]

37 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

 Dragons, Others and the Children of the Forest don't seemed to be 'harmed' from using magic in the way humans are.

I don't think I completely agree with that idea.

I've explained how I believe the Others fear a fate that the maw foresaw by ice-scrying and that they foresaw Jon will be an integral part in their downfall, the Others and their maw, and that is their fear for this that prompted them into acting to prevent it, trying to kill Jon, but these actions actually helped the Night's Watch recover old forgotten knowledge - how to kill wights, how to kill Others - and made Jon the LC of the NW with a mission to defeat them. So, it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. And the price for it will be their deaths.

I know some readers believe that the Others are trying to make Jon their new NK, but that's not what we glean from the Jon-Gilly interactions, where Gilly is a stand in for the corpse queen. He refuses to take her with him, as he does Mel and even Val. Furthermore Gilly is regularly juxtaposed with a wolf as being a threat to her or her son. The son in the corpse queen's case would be an Other. There's a very sneaky wolf threat that George worked in the text in that way.

First there is the scene where Jon thinks about Stannis' offer of WF and Val, interrupted by intruding feelings and thoughts of Ghost who returns to CB (after Jon released him nearby the cave before climbing the Wall with Ygritte et all)

Quote

He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me. It was a hunger inside him, sharp as a dragonglass blade. A hunger . . . he could feel it. It was food he needed, prey, a red deer that stank of fear or a great elk proud and defiant. He needed to kill and fill his belly with fresh meat and hot dark blood. His mouth began to water with the thought. (aSoS, Jon XII)

Gilly is not present in this scene of course, but this is how Samwell describes Gilly after she leaves Jon's office when he forcefully made her agree to swap the babes.

Quote

"Sam." Her voice sounded raw. Gilly was dark-haired and slim, with the big brown eyes of a doe. She was swallowed by the folds of Sam's old cloak, her face half-hidden by its hood, but shivering all the same. Her face looked wan and frightened. (aFfC, Samwell I)

Much of the foreshadowing between Jon and Gilly with Jon as a potential threat involves him being a threat to her son, but not here. He has already made that foreshadowing come true, and with the first quote he's a threat to the doe itself.

Notice that Jon's experience of hunger is compared to the sharpness of a dragonglass blade. Now that's weird, huh? The dragonglass blade is not a normal hunting weapon for humans (let alone a wolf). It's sole use - as far as humans using it is concerned - is as a weapon to kill an Other. And the sole being who knows how sharp a dragonglass blade can cut and survive it is the corpse queen/maw: she experiences the death of her sons by dragonglass blade remotely via hivemind, but is herself not directly injured.

Anyhow, I'd say the maw is frightened as a doe of Jon, but she overreaches, making Jon into an inevitable enemy. It has already cost her one son, one Other, killed by the dragonglass that Jon found at the Fist and passed on.

The suspected maw Shade at Qarth in the House of the Undying also paid a heavy price by trying to have Dany for a meal. It got her Undying killed, and I reckon that in the past Shade once had an actual body, but was harmed by people fighting her, and she escaped ultimate death through some spiritual survival in the Shade-trees-sap.

They should pay a price, because they are hungry for power and dominance.

So how do dragons pay for it? Because they became something that humans desired to control. What dragons prefer the most is freedom, but they ended up being bonded in blood somehow to humans who ride them, stick them into pits and pyramids, only to ride them when it's convenient for their riders to do so.

And then finally there are the CotF, who have been hunted for thousands of years into near extinction, exactly because of the powers they have.