Succession final season (spoilers)

[Winterfell is Burning]

You see, but with two episodes only to go, I don't see how they have Kendall and Roman own the US president AND both get completely burned with Waystar's out of their hands. Seems like these scenarios are incompatible. Specially since these episodes are all being set in a day or two.

[Cas Stark]

I'm not sure I like the convention of having the entire season take place over a few days, but I will reserve judgement until the finale.

[Gaston de Foix]

20 minutes ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

You see, but with two episodes only to go, I don't see how they have Kendall and Roman own the US president AND both get completely burned with Waystar's out of their hands. Seems like these scenarios are incompatible. Specially since these episodes are all being set in a day or two.

Agreed.  If the alliance with Mencken holds.  I didn't think the funeral is the next day.  Is it? 

[Winterfell is Burning]

54 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Agreed.  If the alliance with Mencken holds.  I didn't think the funeral is the next day.  Is it? 

Kendall tells his ex he'll see her and the kids at the funeral tomorrow. And if the show had another season or two, surely we could see Mencken backstab them when he takes office, but now, there's no time.

[Gaston de Foix]

2 hours ago, Winterfell is Burning said:

Kendall tells his ex he'll see her and the kids at the funeral tomorrow. And if the show had another season or two, surely we could see Mencken backstab them when he takes office, but now, there's no time.

So you think the show ends with Mattson proving he's Logan's true successor and the Roys failing (for good)? Forgive me, but that seems like Season 4 telling us nothing new from what Season 3 has already told us. 

[Cas Stark]

57 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

So you think the show ends with Mattson proving he's Logan's true successor and the Roys failing (for good)? Forgive me, but that seems like Season 4 telling us nothing new from what Season 3 has already told us. 

Maybe.  Has the show told us anything new at all over any of the seasons?  Rich, broken people whose money allows them to pretend to be important and serious when they are obvious diletantes who would never see the 'C suite' on their own merit ....and who face minimal consequences for any of their bad decisions, whether they are personal or professional or even criminal.  A ruthless patriarch who destroys the one thing he really wants, again and again.  

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, Gaston de Foix said:

4 telling us nothing new

How politics and money work, honey.

[Gaston de Foix]

16 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Maybe.  Has the show told us anything new at all over any of the seasons?  Rich, broken people whose money allows them to pretend to be important and serious when they are obvious diletantes who would never see the 'C suite' on their own merit ....and who face minimal consequences for any of their bad decisions, whether they are personal or professional or even criminal.  A ruthless patriarch who destroys the one thing he really wants, again and again.  

At that level of generality, sure. 

Are there patterns that recur in the show? Of course.  

But the season 1 to season 3 story arc was about the children going from being divided and conquered to uniting in the face of parental oppression only to lose again.  

[Cas Stark]

10 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

At that level of generality, sure. 

Are there patterns that recur in the show? Of course.  

But the season 1 to season 3 story arc was about the children going from being divided and conquered to uniting in the face of parental oppression only to lose again.  

So, nothing changed.  They couldn't and can't maintain the alliance, though there is clearly family affection that exists among them.  Each one has back stabbed the other and this continues.  I had expected something a little more meaty than 'rich people suck and face no consequences' but at this point, I'm not seeing it.  Two episodes left.

[Clueless Northman]

6 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

Maybe Menken screws Roman and allies with Mattson with an assist from the elders.  Shiv gets used and dumped.   

Yeah, I'm really wondering if Mattson, who can be quite unhinged and doesn't look like your model progressive, wouldn't actually have made some alliance with Mencken, and Mencken just used the Roys, all of them, before dumping them, allowing GoJo to take over, at best proposing Somalia ambassadorship to Connor, if any, and Shiv is left to be loathed by her siblings yet having no power over Matsson since at the end of the day he used her and it's Mencken who greenlights the deal.

I'm getting a bit suspicious about Mencken's reliability and will to actually help the Roys/Waystar, what with his (too early) victory speech highlighting him not wanting collusion, wanting to be clean from corporate and business influences and the like.

At least, this would avoid having to deal with months of ballots-counting before knowing which president will allow or stop the deal, when there're just 2 episodes left, since then it means both presidents would allow GoJo to pick Waystar.

Edited May 15, 2023 by Clueless Northman

[Zorral]

2 minutes ago, Clueless Northman said:

I'm getting a bit suspicious about Mencken's reliability and will to actually help the Roys/Waystar

Have we learned nothing as a nation (we NYers already knew it) these ilks stab everybody in the back and never pay the bills or their debts or fill their obligations.

[Zorral]

36 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

more meaty than 'rich people suck and face no consequences

Real life, babeee.

This unlikely scenario has crossed my mind. Foreshadowed by Shiv's tripping on stairs early in the season, her pregnancy, which we have all been hyper-aware, revealed to us at the start, is invisible to the characters -- until just now revealed to Tom, and he doesn't believe her -- will she lose the baby and maybe her own life?  Cordelia does die in Lear. But then so does everyone in the family.  In present day America Yay of course, there are any number of ways to die, without, actually, you know, dying.  As Roman would say, "Die ... Die-ish."

[Winterfell is Burning]

2 hours ago, Gaston de Foix said:

So you think the show ends with Mattson proving he's Logan's true successor and the Roys failing (for good)? Forgive me, but that seems like Season 4 telling us nothing new from what Season 3 has already told us. 

Mattson is also a fraud. When the sand castle he built is revealed, it probably will crash down. So, the show would end with the kids losing the keys to the kingdom to a man that will end up destroying it.

[Gaston de Foix]

1 hour ago, Cas Stark said:

So, nothing changed.  They couldn't and can't maintain the alliance, though there is clearly family affection that exists among them.  Each one has back stabbed the other and this continues.  

I think the point is the tension between them has happened because of the inexorable pressures dividing them.  In other words, you can say that Logan's divide and rule strategy was necessary to maintain his own rule, or that it left them broken, or that it was merely a way of preparing them for his own absence.  Maybe even all three.  Season 4 is about running the experiment to see if it was contingent or inevitable.  

I mean "rich people suck and face no consequences" is the dominant theme of the whole show.  But unless you are hate-watching it (or maybe even if you are), even stories with unlikable or despicable protagonists can be compelling and worthy of discussion.  

And, yes, only two episodes are left.  Can the show-runners land the ending? Particularly with the sumptuous pointlessness of Logan's funeral as background.  

[Cas Stark]

No, I really like the show, but I'm disappointed with this season since Logan's death and I am starting to have serious doubts they are going to stick the landing.  

[Gaston de Foix]

45 minutes ago, Zorral said:

Real life, babeee.

This unlikely scenario has crossed my mind. Foreshadowed by Shiv's tripping on stairs early in the season, her pregnancy, which we have all been hyper-aware, revealed to us at the start, is invisible to the characters -- until just now revealed to Tom, and he doesn't believe her -- will she lose the baby and maybe her own life?  Cordelia does die in Lear. But then so does everyone in the family.  In present day America Yay of course, there are any number of ways to die, without, actually, you know, dying.  As Roman would say, "Die ... Die-ish."

Is that Roman or George Santos? Spot the difference! I agree Sniv losing the baby is the most likely outcome here.  

4 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

No, I really like the show, but I'm disappointed with this season since Logan's death and I am starting to have serious doubts they are going to stick the landing.  

That's fair.  I have doubts too, but you know part of the joy of being immersed in a good story is that it makes it harder to project ahead.  It's a very clever show, so let's see. 

[RumHam]

I do miss Logan. It reminds me of Westworld after Hopkins left. Though without the other problems Westworld had. I think the shows still quite interesting but I'm glad it's ending.

I've never hated Roman more. 

Greg opening the can of lemon water and pouring it on the pollster's eyes was funny but is anyone really that stupid? 

I think if they wanted they could break the "season takes places over consecutive days" rule for the finale. Or the last bit of the finale. 

Connor's speach was great. Is this the first we've heard of his running mates? 

[IFR]

I'm very much enjoying this season. The Coen brothers-esque comedy of dunces torching their lives and everything around them is absolutely to my taste. Unlike the typical Coen brothers characters, the characters in this show are wealthy and therefore innoculated from any real consequences of their own stupidity and hubris; it's entertaining all the same. The character development, the wit, and sheer hilarious meanness of the show is extremely fun.

Roman was a delight in this episode. I like how he has fully embraced the sociopathic businessman he thinks made his father a success, while his siblings fumble around, pantomiming morality in an effort to try to fool themselves into believing they are good people, when they are just as bad and self-interested as Roman.

Tom and Greg continue to be my favorite characters.

[Cas Stark]

39 minutes ago, RumHam said:

I do miss Logan. It reminds me of Westworld after Hopkins left. Though without the other problems Westworld had. I think the shows still quite interesting but I'm glad it's ending.

I've never hated Roman more. 

Greg opening the can of lemon water and pouring it on the pollster's eyes was funny but is anyone really that stupid? 

I think if they wanted they could break the "season takes places over consecutive days" rule for the finale. Or the last bit of the finale. 

Connor's speach was great. Is this the first we've heard of his running mates? 

I'll always pine for the Westworld that could and should have been after the first season.

I don't like everything happening in a matter of a few days, it seems artificial and is an odd way to end things, not a huge deal, odd to me.

[Gaston de Foix]

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

I do miss Logan. It reminds me of Westworld after Hopkins left. Though without the other problems Westworld had. I think the shows still quite interesting but I'm glad it's ending.

I've never hated Roman more. 

Greg opening the can of lemon water and pouring it on the pollster's eyes was funny but is anyone really that stupid? 

I think if they wanted they could break the "season takes places over consecutive days" rule for the finale. Or the last bit of the finale. 

I had forgotten that rule.  Did it start in this episode? 

53 minutes ago, IFR said:

Roman was a delight in this episode. I like how he has fully embraced the sociopathic businessman he thinks made his father a success, while his siblings fumble around, pantomiming morality in an effort to try to fool themselves into believing they are good people, when they are just as bad and self-interested as Roman.

Kieran Culkin was incredible.  I think Jeremy Strong is the most talented actor, but Culkin stole the show here.