Unpopular Opinions You Have?

[Gilbert Green]

On 7/4/2023 at 2:13 PM, frenin said:

• Fans have a serious problem with bastards, ...

I have observed this curious phenomenon as well.   And I don't think it is tied to any strong belief in the sanctity of marriage.

[Gilbert Green]

On 7/4/2023 at 3:24 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

Here’s another one: book fans overemphasize Tyrion’s evil. He’s definitely a dark character, and I realize that it’s based in opposition to his TV portrayal as St. Tyrion, but people blame him for a lot of things that were genuinely out of his hands. By adding the valonqar prophecy, GRRM essentially absolved Tyrion of any wrongdoing regarding Cersei—no matter how kind he was to her, she would have still wanted him dead. The same goes for Pycelle, Boros Blount, etc. They would have testified against Tyrion no matter how well he treated them in the past, because they would never cross Tywin and Cersei. 

And no, he isn’t actually planning on assaulting Cersei. People say things in anger that they don’t act on. Same with his threats against Tommen, which he even admitted were empty later on.

He has fewer defenders than he did.  But even now, hardly anyone overemphasizes his evil.

The Valonqar prophesy can't absolve him of anything.  He knows nothing about it.

He framed himself for Joffrey's murder.  His confession to Jaime was essentially true, except for the technical fact that someone beat him to it.  And of all the murders he has committed and plotted, Joffreys death was the most justifiable.  Of all his victims, Joffrey most deserved to die.

Cersei genuinely believes that Tyrion murdered her son.  Which is perfectly understandable.

The witnesses who testified against him told the truth as they knew it for the most part.

Tyrion plotted Myrcella's death, and then admitted to himself that was exactly what he was doing.  Yes, to queen her is to kill her, and yes, I did know that.

 

[The Bard of Banefort]

27 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said:

I guess it depends on what you mean by "fans".  But I don't think it is generally true of book readers.  But they have mostly given up in disappointment and moved on by now.  But I suppose you do probably speak for the "right kind of fan" who remains a regular of this forum after a 5 year wait for FEAST, a 5 year wait for DANCE, and a now 12-year wait for WINDS. 

Most book fans like George enough that they try to maintain some sympathy for why the books aren’t finished. Whenever GOT comes up among show-only fans and they’re reminded that the books aren’t finished, their response is more in line with. . . well, with how people on here talk about D&D. You see it a lot on places like Reddit or in the YouTube comments section. 

[Gilbert Green]

4 minutes ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Most book fans like George enough that they try to maintain some sympathy for why the books aren’t finished.

The customer is under no obligation to be satisfied with the product.  The world is full of starving artists, who suffer for their art, but no-one has to like their work.  And GRRM is not even starving. 

I'm not blaming the guy.  Ought implies can, as Kant said.  But the customer does not owe him anything.  And if many feel that an unfinished story is more frustrating than it is entertaining, that is a valid opinion.

Most such people have moved on of course.  And those who remain tend to have opinions like yours.  But I don't doubt he has lost a part of his former fan base.

[Craving Peaches]

6 hours ago, Gilbert Green said:

Okay.  But what possible evidence would verify this hypothesis?  Who do you expect to ride a dragon?

The way Nettles 'tames' her dragon with food looks like something anyone can do, though Nettles herself might have Valyrian blood, so we won't know for sure. Also, the dragon-binding horn seems like it should allow anyone, as long as there is a sacrifice. I have seen speculation that Victarion will use it, and he doesn't seem to have any Valyrian blood. But that's just speculation until the next book.

[astarkchoice]

1 hour ago, Craving Peaches said:

The way Nettles 'tames' her dragon with food looks like something anyone can do, though Nettles herself might have Valyrian blood, so we won't know for sure. Also, the dragon-binding horn seems like it should allow anyone, as long as there is a sacrifice. I have seen speculation that Victarion will use it, and he doesn't seem to have any Valyrian blood. But that's just speculation until the next book.

Agreed 

I dont think it def requires  valyrian blood. Some valyrians seem.to  have unnatural  heat resistance which helps innthe  taming of  them, and qualties northerners would call.greensight and warging  too (the warging clearly geared towards dragons as opposed to starks and direwolves)

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight9]

On 7/4/2023 at 1:55 PM, The Bard of Banefort said:

The dragons are overpowered. 

Littlefinger is an absurd character.

People who aren’t fans of the books are much more critical of the series being unfinished than fans are. Even the most entitled book fans are more forgiving than the rest of the world outside of the ASOIAF bubble. 

The Ironborn could have been neutralized if the Iron Throne had made even the slightest of overtures towards them over the course of three centuries. The only one who did was Aegon the Conqueror, and sure enough, the Ironborn were loyal to him.

Daemon Targaryen is basically just an empty vessel that fans can project whatever they want onto (more so in the show than the books).

After learning a bit more of European history, I would agree with the critique that Westeros is more sexist/grimdark than the real Middle Ages. For common born women it appears roughly the same, as are the general social disadvantages of being a woman. But medieval women inherited positions of power with much greater frequency than they do in Westeros. 

(To piggy-back off of that, the more I learn about medieval European history, the more I notice the subconscious American influences on Westeros. The monarchical system is obviously European, but the way Westeros operates as one giant country, with distinct regional differences that are nevertheless joined by one language and relatively little religious strife, is much more reminiscent of the US. The lack of interest among rulers with creating marriage alliances with foreign powers is also at odds with medieval history.)

Nothing about Dorne makes sense. It’s basically just a fantasy land of hot babes. 

Jorah is over-hated. He did much more to help Dany than harm her. 

I would rather GRRM focused on Dunk & Egg instead of TWOW at this point.

A lot of the appeal for HOTD is people who desperately want Game of Thrones back, or who want to believe the show is better than it is so that they can hate GOT/D&D even more.

Over the course of the last decade, the culture has changed in a way that older generations did not anticipate, for both better and worse. This has caused GOT to age poorly, but it’s also cast a negative light on the books too, to a degree. This is another unfortunate, if unintended, consequence of the books being unfinished. We can talk about depiction vs. endorsement and challenging the readers all day, but the truth is that no book with this many child brides and May-December romances is going to come out today and not be met with scorn. People will continue to read and love ASOIAF, but a shadow has certainly been cast over it now.
 

 

 

I disagree, discovering the books and becoming a fan has made me far more critical of the series, especially upon seeing all the omitted characters and storylines, how nonsensical the plot in the later seasons became and the character butchering. 

[frenin]

11 hours ago, Gilbert Green said:

I have observed this curious phenomenon as well.   And I don't think it is tied to any strong belief in the sanctity of marriage.

This is a book about elites and their drama at the end of the day, fans will become prejudiced as a default but it's kinda of funny/bizarre how far they are willing to take it.

[SeanF]

45 minutes ago, frenin said:

This is a book about elites and their drama at the end of the day, fans will become prejudiced as a default but it's kinda of funny/bizarre how far they are willing to take it.

I suppose it's hard not buy into elite attitudes when reading the books.  That's true of actual history as well.

The most obvious belief that it's hard to avoid slipping into is that elite lives are more important than those of the smallfolk.

[Gilbert Green]

7 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

The way Nettles 'tames' her dragon with food looks like something anyone can do, though Nettles herself might have Valyrian blood, so we won't know for sure. Also, the dragon-binding horn seems like it should allow anyone, as long as there is a sacrifice. I have seen speculation that Victarion will use it, and he doesn't seem to have any Valyrian blood. But that's just speculation until the next book.

I see nothing here inconsistent with the idea that dragon-bonding is tied to heritage.  Brown skin does not rule out Valyrian heritage.  Even the runes on the dragon-horn imply that not anyone can use it successfully.

But the main point of my question was not to argue, but to ask:   Do you care to make any predictions, that might be verified/falsified in future volumes?  Like "so-and-so will ride a dragon"?

[Craving Peaches]

10 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said:

Do you care to make any predictions, that might be verified/falsified in future volumes?  Like "so-and-so will ride a dragon"?

Daenerys will ride a dragon.

[Craving Peaches]

27 minutes ago, Gilbert Green said:

Do you care to make any predictions, that might be verified/falsified in future volumes?

Stannis will starve to death. This is based on how the food supply in and out of Winterfell is described. I have a feeling it won't happen however, even though I am convinced it should based on what we are told about the food situation and the weather in the North.

[Corvo the Crow]

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Stannis will starve to death. This is based on how the food supply in and out of Winterfell is described. I have a feeling it won't happen however, even though I am convinced it should based on what we are told about the food situation and the weather in the North.

Fertility goddess Stannis will procreate with the glassgardens of Winterfell just as he did with the mountain to spawn hillsclansmen out of rock. I really hope no Freys will be  around during this because accidents do happen and we have enough of them as it is.

And yes, goddess, sometimes he is mannis sometimes he is womannis.

Edited July 19, 2023 by Corvo the Crow

[Corvo the Crow]

Instead of invading Westeros, Andals should have prayed harder to seven to send them a Pelin-el Whitestrakesque hero. 

[sifth]

We wont get to see Storms End fall, we'll only learn how it happened after the fact.

[Tyrosh Lannister]

Jon Snow is not azor ahai, he's not the hero of the story, he's not going to be king of the north 

[SaffronLady]

On 7/19/2023 at 5:29 PM, Craving Peaches said:

The way Nettles 'tames' her dragon with food looks like something anyone can do, though Nettles herself might have Valyrian blood, so we won't know for sure. Also, the dragon-binding horn seems like it should allow anyone, as long as there is a sacrifice. I have seen speculation that Victarion will use it, and he doesn't seem to have any Valyrian blood. But that's just speculation until the next book.

I adhere to some form of this, technically. Given that dragons appear even in places far beyond the known reach of the greatest human powers, there must have been a beginning to the blood bonus (Valyrian blood, blood of the dragon, etc.). It's just that, since we are also given the dragonlords practice incest, then by implication dragon taming is so hard and the bonus so potent, it is unlikely that Nettles isn't a dragonseed.