Diablo 4 1.1.1 Exp goes brrrrr

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

The reason why D2 and D3 were fun is that they were easy to replay. D4 looks great and they found a nice balance between D2 sometimes being too hard and D3 being easy as fuck, but they messed up the key to the game. I'm sure they'll improve it with patches and expansions, but the game can get boring and feel like a chore. Idk how any of you made it to the high levels you've achieved. I doubt I'll ever get anywhere close to 90 anytime soon. It needs more to do and frankly, a much bigger map. Grinding in the other two games was way more fun. 

[Slurktan]

47 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

The reason why D2 and D3 were fun is that they were easy to replay. D4 looks great and they found a nice balance between D2 sometimes being too hard and D3 being easy as fuck, but they messed up the key to the game. I'm sure they'll improve it with patches and expansions, but the game can get boring and feel like a chore. Idk how any of you made it to the high levels you've achieved. I doubt I'll ever get anywhere close to 90 anytime soon. It needs more to do and frankly, a much bigger map. Grinding in the other two games was way more fun. 

Pretty much this.  And the only smart way of leveling not doing the story is the tree stuff and that's just boring as fuck.

[Arakasi]

I can’t speak to D3 because I didn’t play it past Reaper of Souls but I did get a lot of D2R in last year. Considering a large majority of my gameplay was “kill Mephisto 500 times”, “farm lower kurast chests” and “run chaos sanc/worldstone” keep I am failing to see what d4 lacks in regards to that.
 

It’s not like D2 is a more fun game to play nearly every build just spams one damage skill whether it was blessed hammer, blizzard, frenzy, lightning fury, whirlwind, etc. So someone will have to explain to me an actual reason for D2 being easy to replay in comparison. I feel people have lost their ability to just jump in and play a game like they did when you were kids.
 

To me with two kids and a busy life I get maybe 1-2 hours a day and I can log in do 2-3 dungeons and maybe kill the word boss or do some Helltides. It’s very easy for me to play. I totally understand that the content and loot rewards aren’t quite there to justify 6 hours a day playing but on a short schedule like mine it’s fairly ideal. And because loot is so prevelant that you have a decent chance of getting legendaries and uniques you want. As compared to D2 where you could go weeks without seeing a high rune.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

D2 had a real goal if you wanted to grind: amazing PvP. D3 failed in that regard, but it had a lot of variety in what you could do and the Grifts were fun. D4 has yet to find what it wants to really be late game. It seems like it's dipping its toe in each without really expanding on either. I'm sure they'll improve it though.

[Arakasi]

Never played pvp in d2 and fairly sure most of the player base never did either.

[Kalbear]

1 hour ago, Arakasi said:

I can’t speak to D3 because I didn’t play it past Reaper of Souls but I did get a lot of D2R in last year. Considering a large majority of my gameplay was “kill Mephisto 500 times”, “farm lower kurast chests” and “run chaos sanc/worldstone” keep I am failing to see what d4 lacks in regards to that.
 

It’s not like D2 is a more fun game to play nearly every build just spams one damage skill whether it was blessed hammer, blizzard, frenzy, lightning fury, whirlwind, etc. So someone will have to explain to me an actual reason for D2 being easy to replay in comparison. I feel people have lost their ability to just jump in and play a game like they did when you were kids.
 

To me with two kids and a busy life I get maybe 1-2 hours a day and I can log in do 2-3 dungeons and maybe kill the word boss or do some Helltides. It’s very easy for me to play. I totally understand that the content and loot rewards aren’t quite there to justify 6 hours a day playing but on a short schedule like mine it’s fairly ideal. And because loot is so prevelant that you have a decent chance of getting legendaries and uniques you want. As compared to D2 where you could go weeks without seeing a high rune.

My problem is that I have no idea how to get there other than a lot of grindy chores. Level up, slowly. Do the capstone. Unlock nightmare and then do...sigil? Figure out how to do the paragon leveling. Figure out the aspects you need for a functional build. Figure out all the weird multiple things you need for equipment - rates, legendaries, uniques,  sacreds, malignants,  something to do with helltides and cinders and other crap.

It's a lot. 

Compare to d3 where the builds revolved around sets, the seasons gave you sets, the paragon system was super easy and not crucial, and rifts and greater rifts were incredibly easy to understand and...it's a lot. It's a lot to just even get started. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Arakasi said:

Never played pvp in d2 and fairly sure most of the player base never did either.

D2 has one of the strongest fan followings of any game. Give it a try. Lots of people are still on there and the ones that love it will give you all kinds of gear just because they're bored and the game developed a culture of helping out*. I rejoined for like 10 days before the D4 launch and two different people gave me Annis for free, which is one of the most important and hard to get items in the game. 

*That's another problem with D4, the lack of community. The way the game is structured right now is pretty independent if you don't have previous friends on Blizz. I ran a D3 clan that had probably 50 to 100 members at one point (and truth be told, I didn't play all that much). But hey, shockingly the former political organizer with a background in organizational psychology knows how to heard cats. That's why they decided I should run things after the founder quit. Tyrant had a pretty good run that lasted several years. 

Edited August 13, 2023 by Tywin et al.

[Arakasi]

I like D2 I played it at launch. I played it through when Lord of Destruction came out. I then took a long time away from the game but played it again with D2R and probably played it for a good solid 3-4 months last year. I stand by assertion that most of the player base never touched pvp. Certainly none of the big d2 streamers do it and no one I ever played with back in the day did.

D2 (and especially D2R) is an excellent game and if you rank all the games I’ve ever played by an hours invested it’s in the top five along with HoMM3, WoW, Slay the Spire and RotK3. But playing games like D4 or even Minecraft Dungeons has sorta ripped the rose colored glasses off me. I just can’t go back to the game since the gameplay is just awful and the loot system requires intense repetitive grinding of a way worse nature than D4. I probably put in 700 hours last year and I got enough runes to make an Enigma. I got 3 characters into the early/mid 90s and then I just burned out hard.

 

On the matter of D4 complexity I get it. I think our brains are just wired these days to think we have to get builds right and map things out perfectly. But I find a game like D4 allows me to relax on that because you’re never locked out of respecs. This isn’t d2 with the 3 respecs or something like WotR which I planned down to the last detail how to build a perfect Trickster build. It’s also a problem I’m running into with BG3 now. I just don’t see why it’s something you have to worry about here much. There is not many false choices in this game so regardless you’re going to be functional.

[Argonath Diver]

I again strongly, strongly advocate trying out Project Diablo 2, an exceptional mod for the original D2:LOD release. They've updated the graphics to look great on 1080p - it certainly looks nothing as pretty as D2:R, but it runs at 60fps and looks great. More importantly, they've added a deep endgame progression far beyond Mephisto and Baal runs. Endgame "maps" a la Path of Exile, along with its healthy item crafting and corruption. Actually engaging boss fights stretching the 20 year old D2 engine to the max. Huge skill balances and additions. 25 years of being a Diablo nerd and I swear it's the best experience you'll get, assuming you have your old Lord of Destruction CD Keys attached to your BNet account.

Just as all the rest of the current ARPGs, they're operating on Seasons - the newest one having been amazing but most players have moved on. I still play it regularly using a single player mod called PlugY.  If you guys enjoyed D2 or D2:R, I promise it's a delight. I'll be deep-diving back into the new Path of Exile league soon, and I know that game is far too much for most, but if even one or two of you try out PD2 I'll consider it a win. It's just fantastic and it's free (assuming your copy of og D2 and LOD).

[Arakasi]

I only play on steam deck or console so I’m not sure if that is available. Pretty sure I couldn’t run original D2 on it. I have heard of it and it’s good they’ve fixed things but I stand by my view that the skill design of D2 in how it pushes you into just spamming one skill is inherently flawed.

[Argonath Diver]

I agree. It's an outdated game, but the charm (no pun intended) was the constant gambling dopamine of hunting for that high rune drop or a Shako etc.  D4's itemization is wholly uninteresting comparatively - as was D3s. They've nailed the moment to moment gameplay. I keep bagging on the game but I logged on last night. 

Most gamers will play for maybe 100 or 200 hours and move on when a better game comes out. The franchise fans want a game that is compelling for many many hours beyond that. 

[Darryk]

I'm enjoying the gameplay for Diablo IV but I found the story somewhat disappointing, Only two cinematics when Diablo II and III rewarded you with an awesome cinematic at the end of each ACT. Lots of cinematics was a Blizzard tradition.

[Arakasi]

I don’t understand why D4 can’t just add an endless dungeon mode. Heck the skeleton D3 team just added that plus made an option for solo self found! And that team likely has a barebones team. Like serious just make an option for nightmare dungeons that when you finish a dungeon it opens up a portal to another dungeon with higher difficulty and you just go do that. Even better if there is some like pick one of three option at each time. Heck just have it be the total list of all dungeon affixes and voila whole new engaging mode for minimal effort.

I do agree the team has made some perplexing itemization choices in this game that have hurt the loot acquisition feeling. Like I don’t understand the class restrictions on most items. If a Sorc or Druid wants to wear a shield they should be able to. Same if a lock or Sorc wants to wield a 2h mace or axe.  I can see rogue and barb with their dual wielding sure not being able to use shields but it would be cool if they had the option to use wands for example. I think these restrictions show an inflexibility of the devs to understand that players like to acquire loot for alts. They should also in general have more class agnostic aspects and especially uniques. 

[Slurktan]

4 hours ago, Arakasi said:

I don’t understand why D4 can’t just add an endless dungeon mode. Heck the skeleton D3 team just added that plus made an option for solo self found! And that team likely has a barebones team. Like serious just make an option for nightmare dungeons that when you finish a dungeon it opens up a portal to another dungeon with higher difficulty and you just go do that. Even better if there is some like pick one of three option at each time. Heck just have it be the total list of all dungeon affixes and voila whole new engaging mode for minimal effort.

I do agree the team has made some perplexing itemization choices in this game that have hurt the loot acquisition feeling. Like I don’t understand the class restrictions on most items. If a Sorc or Druid wants to wear a shield they should be able to. Same if a lock or Sorc wants to wield a 2h mace or axe.  I can see rogue and barb with their dual wielding sure not being able to use shields but it would be cool if they had the option to use wands for example. I think these restrictions show an inflexibility of the devs to understand that players like to acquire loot for alts. They should also in general have more class agnostic aspects and especially uniques. 

I haven't played Nec or Sorc yet but who actually uses a shield? Also why can't Barbs sword and board?

[Arakasi]

Necros can use shields. On sword and board sure but for Barb they’ve leaned into this playstyle of weapon switching and such. I don’t think board fits that well with their Barb fantasy. Like d&d has done some similar things for making shields and armor unappealing or unusable for barbs. But I’m not against them making it an option if a Barb wants to play more defensively.

I feel like a lot of this was just done for balance. Like some Barb builds just use the 1h weapons as stat sticks. So they didn’t want a defensive stat stick there. I feel similarly for other restrictions they ran some numbers on builds and classes and were like “if sorc had this piece of gear it would go out of our range of class expectations”. Similarly I think it probably simplifies things with class restrictions. D2’s ability to co-opt almost any other classes features is definitely fun but also hard to balance. Anyway it’s good every class seems to have multiple archetypes that are all valid and such but at the same time they’ve lost a bit of the charm and reusability of epic items. It was nice to pass around my Grief or Maras in D2 to other classes.

Edited August 13, 2023 by Arakasi

[Soylent Brown]

Got to 100 finally and did a NM100 pretty much straight away. The hardest part was crafting the sigil really.

Tried a 98 first, and it went well too. Everything died pretty quickly, but I was very, very squishy. Elemental damage like poison is brutal with resistances not working properly.

The 100 went pretty much the same as the 98, mostly smooth, with me being one-shotted a couple of times by monsters taking advantage of poor visibility situations.

I'll have a look at Lilith now, see if I can get anywhere with that fight, and if I can, then season over.

[Ramsay B.]

I jumped on tonight and have gotten like 5 Unique drops in a few hours for some weird ass reason. Including a Temerity drop with the aspect maxed out at 80%. I was just thinking about how I missed it from my other toon and some random guy in Helltides kills a group and that gem drops for me. I didn’t even recognize the asterick/star thing on the mini map and just went over out of curiosity. Sometimes this game delivers.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

How do the Invokers work exactly? I watched a YT video and did what it said, but nothing happened. 

[Mexal]

47 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

How do the Invokers work exactly? I watched a YT video and did what it said, but nothing happened. 

Go into one of the malignant dungeons and finish it but keep going and you will come to a room with growths. You click one of the invokes on appropriate growth and that’s it.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

20 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Go into one of the malignant dungeons and finish it but keep going and you will come to a room with growths. You click one of the invokes on appropriate growth and that’s it.

I do that, but it doesn't seem like they're getting used up.