NFL 2023: No Swifties Allowed

[Tywin et al.]

Lol, the refs missed two obvious PI calls at the end there. I get not calling the second one in a vacuum, but that sucks happening right after a super easy one to call. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

They actually muffed 3 calls there at the end, the Mahomes hit in bounds shouldve been a no call, then the 2 P.I. plays all on the ending drive.

Just weakass officiating anyway ya slice it.

[Tywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

They actually muffed 3 calls there at the end, the Mahomes hit in bounds shouldve been a no call, then the 2 P.I. plays all on the ending drive.

Just weakass officiating anyway ya slice it.

I'm actually more okay with the flag on Mahomes getting hit than a lot of roughing calls. He wasn't out of bounds, but he was a step away and no one thinks he was going to turn it up field. To me that's the same as a QB sliding. 

[DireWolfSpirit]

Of the 3 incorrect calls the 1st and 3rd calls were not as egregious but the 2nd call, the missed P.I. call on Valdes-Scantling was straight criminal, it was practically an open field tackle with the DB half riding his back.

No-call my ass!

[mcbigski]

7 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'm actually more okay with the flag on Mahomes getting hit than a lot of roughing calls. He wasn't out of bounds, but he was a step away and no one thinks he was going to turn it up field. To me that's the same as a QB sliding. 

They've got to be able to make a play to stop a runner at the first down marker.  If he was going down a few yards short,then sure, or if he were already out of bounds, but if it's going to illegal to make contact with a ball carrier from in bounds at the line to gain, what game are we even watching?

 

[Maithanet]

The no call on the PI Valdes-Scandling felt like a makeup call for several iffy calls that went the Chiefs way earlier in the game.  But it just shows that makeup calls just lead to badly officiated games overall, because that entire final drive was a mess. 

Regardless, the Packers were the better team last night, and I don't feel bad about them getting the win.  Even with the PI, the Chiefs needed to score from first and goal, then get a two point conversion and then win in overtime.  Pretty tall order.

[Tywin et al.]

1 hour ago, mcbigski said:

They've got to be able to make a play to stop a runner at the first down marker.  If he was going down a few yards short,then sure, or if he were already out of bounds, but if it's going to illegal to make contact with a ball carrier from in bounds at the line to gain, what game are we even watching?

 

That's all good and fine if the runner is fighting for more yards. Mahomes was clearly trying to step out of bounds and the defender blasted him. 

[Maithanet]

6 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

That's all good and fine if the runner is fighting for more yards. Mahomes was clearly trying to step out of bounds and the defender blasted him. 

Mahomes was clearly trying to step out of bounds just past the marker.  Obviously the defense has other ideas about where he ought to be stepping out. 

There HAS to be a way for defenders to incentivize quarterbacks to go out of bounds earlier.  If the standard isn't "if you're in the field of play, they can hit you", then what is the line?  Within a half a step of the line?  A full step?  A yard?  Down that way lies chaos.  If your feet are still in the field of play, the defender can hit you - it's the only standard that can actually work.  In a play like last night, Mahomes can take 8 yards and not get hit or take 10 yards and get blown up.  It's his choice whether those yards are worth it. 

[Tywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Mahomes was clearly trying to step out of bounds just past the marker.  Obviously the defense has other ideas about where he ought to be stepping out. 

There HAS to be a way for defenders to incentivize quarterbacks to go out of bounds earlier.  If the standard isn't "if you're in the field of play, they can hit you", then what is the line?  Within a half a step of the line?  A full step?  A yard?  Down that way lies chaos.  If your feet are still in the field of play, the defender can hit you - it's the only standard that can actually work.  In a play like last night, Mahomes can take 8 yards and not get hit or take 10 yards and get blown up.  It's his choice whether those yards are worth it. 

It doesn't create chaos. Sure he was trying to get the first down, but he was also clearly about to step out. Give him a shove and there wouldn't be a flag. Delivering a hit like that on a star QB as they're about to go out will probably get you flagged. The defender has to know that. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Tywin et al.

[mcbigski]

If he goes down on his own he's giving himself up and shouldn't be hit.  If he's attempting to advance the ball, it has to be ok for the defense to play defense. 

[Maithanet]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

It doesn't create chaos. Sure he was trying to get the first down, but he was also clearly about to step out. Give him a shove and there wouldn't be a flag. Delivering a hit like that on a star QB as they're about to go out will probably get you flagged. The defender has to know that. 

What you are describing is basically "I know roughing when I see it".  A little shove is fine, what about a big shove that sends him flying, but is all arms?  What about a tackle where he pulls up a bit at the last minute?  What about a huge hit where the qb is still half a step away from the line? 

I don't want this mushyness. 

If you put a hit on the quarterback and he's out of bounds (even if he only stepped out a moment ago) then they should throw the flag.  The fact that it could be very close will incentivize defenders not to blow the QB up if it's borderline, since they don't want to risk it.  But if the quarterback is still in bounds, you can hit them.  This would incentivize quarterbacks to actually get out of bounds, because they know a hit is coming if they get greedy. 

Win-win. 

[horangi]

12 hours ago, DireWolfSpirit said:

Of the 3 incorrect calls the 1st and 3rd calls were not as egregious but the 2nd call, the missed P.I. call on Valdes-Scantling was straight criminal, it was practically an open field tackle with the DB half riding his back.

No-call my ass!

What got me was that I've thought the league had been doing a 'better' job this year with throwing late flags when something egregious was missed or conferencing and picking up flags when there really wasn't a foul.   I really wish they'd just allow for a booth review on all PI and personal fouls.   In most cases it wouldn't add any time since they are flagrant.  For those times where its close, whats wrong with an extra 10 seconds to get it right?

Edited December 4, 2023 by horangi

[Tywin et al.]

2 hours ago, Maithanet said:

What you are describing is basically "I know roughing when I see it".  A little shove is fine, what about a big shove that sends him flying, but is all arms?  What about a tackle where he pulls up a bit at the last minute?  What about a huge hit where the qb is still half a step away from the line? 

I don't want this mushyness. 

If you put a hit on the quarterback and he's out of bounds (even if he only stepped out a moment ago) then they should throw the flag.  The fact that it could be very close will incentivize defenders not to blow the QB up if it's borderline, since they don't want to risk it.  But if the quarterback is still in bounds, you can hit them.  This would incentivize quarterbacks to actually get out of bounds, because they know a hit is coming if they get greedy. 

Win-win. 

It's mushy in general. Every game you see skill players get hit/tackled when they're clearly out of bounds and a flag isn't thrown. 

[Maithanet]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

It's mushy in general. Every game you see skill players get hit/tackled when they're clearly out of bounds and a flag isn't thrown. 

There are plenty of areas where it is difficult to enforce the rules consistently (holding is probably the most obvious example).  I have never particularly thought that late hits out of bounds were an area with a lot of egregious missed calls.  Usually I am ok with how the refs call it.  They missed this one on Mahomes - it happens.

[dbunting]

Uh oh, Lawrence is down and it looks bad, his knee and or ankle.  Tried to walk and dropped right back to the ground and threw his helmet. 

[dbunting]

12 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

That's all good and fine if the runner is fighting for more yards. Mahomes was clearly trying to step out of bounds and the defender blasted him. 

What you are saying here creates the opportunity for a fake out. QB needs another yard and pretends he is going out of bounds, the defender lets up and then the QB jukes back in and gets the yards he needs. Kinda like the fake slide we saw in college last year.

He is a ball carrier in the field of play.

[mcbigski]

I don't remember the fake slide play but there's a clear difference between giving your  self up and advancing the ball.

And as a dolphins fan, I hope cincy holds on.  Nice to worry about seeding instead of In the Hunt for a change.

[Tywin et al.]

11 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Uh oh, Lawrence is down and it looks bad, his knee and or ankle.  Tried to walk and dropped right back to the ground and threw his helmet. 

Didn't look good. His leg got folded up after the lineman step on his foot. I can't recall a year in which this many starting QBs got hurt. 

8 minutes ago, dbunting said:

What you are saying here creates the opportunity for a fake out. QB needs another yard and pretends he is going out of bounds, the defender lets up and then the QB jukes back in and gets the yards he needs. Kinda like the fake slide we saw in college last year.

He is a ball carrier in the field of play.

The likelihood of a fake up was so low, and again, you can just shove him out. Trying to lay the wood is what drew the flag. 

[mcbigski]

Also cj breatherd v Jake browning on Monday night.  Oddly compelling.

[mcbigski]

Jesus if this game goes to overtime I'm going to have another white claw surge and be a real mess for my networking group over coffee.