My bounties never hang

[SerDuncan]

Now I recall that essence of justice quote

Spoiler

Coldness: Passionate murderers more likely to end up zealots, idealogues and fanatics. I recall a monologue from some film, "the very essence of justice is in the dispassionate execution, not hot blooded revenge" or something, paraphrased.

Anyway, with the encouragement of @Ser Arthurs Dawn I start my first topic after a long dormant observation period. The very concept of bounty hunters in a land under some form of law has never failed to make me ponder about the morality of such an occupation, the necessity in different periods and places and the sanctioning of something close to vigilantism, treading very close to the perilous cliff of states losing control. Law and currency are only shored by the trust held by the masses. Of course we can immediately think of the hedge knights and sellswords and there have been rewards on outlaws akin to bounties but nothing quite matching the scale and depth of a professional bounty hunter from a western (space ones included ) Ronin in Japan have a rich representation for instance. We have the aforementioned poor knights and mercs but a POV woven in could have explored this strata of society inworld. I still nurse a complaint that we never got a worthy grassroot level narrative from the common masses in the books and show likewise. Dunk & Egg offered the closest view imo, though not unlike the NPCs in medieval fantasy RPGs. Speculations on worthy candidates from the canon, say Hangman Hodor and general discussion are welcome. Thank you.

Edited October 17, 2023 by SerDuncan
links

[Craving Peaches]

I got attacked by a bounty hunter in Skyrim once...

Come to think of it, the only bounties we see, to the best of my knowledge, are for Daenerys being killed and Tyrion, dead or alive. There don't seem to be lower level rewards for escaped robbers and such. Odd.

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

5 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I got attacked by a bounty hunter in Skyrim once...

That's what you get for stealing, you chicken thief.

[James Steller]

7 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I got attacked by a bounty hunter in Skyrim once...

 

I miss playing Skyrim…

[Craving Peaches]

Just now, James Steller said:

I miss playing Skyrim…

Do you not have time to play anymore? 

[Craving Peaches]

2 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

That's what you get for stealing, you chicken thief.

It was for worse than theft...

[Takiedevushkikakzvezdy]

27 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

I got attacked by a bounty hunter in Skyrim once.

Arrow to the knee?

[Craving Peaches]

5 minutes ago, Takiedevushkikakzvezdy said:

Arrow to the knee?

I used to be an adventurer like you.

[James Steller]

2 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

Do you not have time to play anymore? 

I don’t have the game. I deliberately don’t have it in my home or else I’d never get anything else done.

Plus the old disc I used got pretty scratched up, and I haven’t looked into where I can get a better one.

Edited October 17, 2023 by James Steller

[sifth]

I find it silly that Sandor didn't have a bounty on his head. He seems like someone too dangerous to be left to do as he pleases.

[Alester Florent]

5 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

I got attacked by a bounty hunter in Skyrim once...

Come to think of it, the only bounties we see, to the best of my knowledge, are for Daenerys being killed and Tyrion, dead or alive. There don't seem to be lower level rewards for escaped robbers and such. Odd.

I think there was a reward for returning Jaime to Robb after his escape, but I might misremember.

I think bounty hunting, as in the classic western, was a specific product of the legal system in the Old West and a response to practical issues, where men were appointed as government employees to enforce the law over a wide area without the manpower to do so effectively.

While things may look superficially similar to medieval Europe (albeit Westeros seems to be missing the person of the sheriff, who was the actual legal officer in each county in England), the "feudal" nature of Westeros means that in principle each lord should be able to enforce the law within his own lands, or if he can't, call on support from higher up the food chain, and so on. Given that the primary resource available to a lord is labour, and this includes in particular fighting men, it's probably more practical and attractive for most lords to hunt down criminals themselves than to offer cash bounties for them.

Encouraging bounty-hunting is also unattractive from a rule-of-law perspective, as it encourages vigilantism and the presence in your community of experienced fighting men of no fixed allegiance who might easily turn to outlawry themselves.

Something akin to bounty hunters did exist in Europe, in the form of the thief-taker (albeit somewhat later than the medieval period Westeros appears to be spoofing), but the important distinction is that rewards were put up privately by the victims of crime rather than officially by law enforcement officials.

Now, the Riverlands may have disintegrated to the point where lords are no longer able to enforce the law within their own lands and posting bounties may start to look more attractive, but then again that's also a large part of what Jaime is doing in AFfC, mopping up the outlaws and rebels that the Riverlords can't manage themselves, and so to some extent even there the system is still working. For now, anyway.

[sweetsunray]

28 minutes ago, Alester Florent said:

but then again that's also a large part of what Jaime is doing in AFfC, mopping up the outlaws and rebels that the Riverlords can't manage themselves

There's lots of talk of wanting to mop up the outlaws and rebels by Jaime and the men who accompanied him to Darry and/or RR, but so far he failed to mop up any of them, instead ending up taken himself; the man he sent after wolves ended up fleeing the wolf pack, etc... So, Jaime only succeeded in mopping up the remainder of the Mountain's men at HH by taking them with him, and using some as escorts such as Raff. Tarly complains later that he had to punish two for raping once they arrived at Maidenpool.

[Alester Florent]

12 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

There's lots of talk of wanting to mop up the outlaws and rebels by Jaime and the men who accompanied him to Darry and/or RR, but so far he failed to mop up any of them, instead ending up taken himself; the man he sent after wolves ended up fleeing the wolf pack, etc... So, Jaime only succeeded in mopping up the remainder of the Mountain's men at HH by taking them with him, and using some as escorts such as Raff. Tarly complains later that he had to punish two for raping once they arrived at Maidenpool.

He hasn't yet fulfilled his goals, certainly, but that was part of the intention in the campaign. And if what amounts to a royal army headed by the Lord Commander of the Kingsguard can't deal with the BwB I doubt individual bounty hunters are going to. 

Brienne also eliminates several of the more dangerous outlaws in the region, which is another example of a control mechanism in place within the Westerosi law enforcement system: knights errant seeking to prove themselves or fulfil their vows by dealing with outlaws without expectation of monetary reward.

It's all very ad-hoc, of course, but it's far from clear that the introduction of bounty hunters would improve the situation. Indeed, as we've seen with the bounty placed on Tyrion, what has actually resulted is more crime and violence against innocent people, while the actual target is completely unaffected. Posting that bounty and refusing to rescind it once the effects became clear is one of the many examples of Cersei's general misrule, not something I think that should be imitated.

[sweetsunray]

3 hours ago, Alester Florent said:

Brienne also eliminates several of the more dangerous outlaws in the region

I'd say the BwB outlaws have eliminated most of the dangerous outlaws. Brienne dealt with 3 in the Crownlands at the Whispers, and Rorge at the inn. Gendry killed Biter.

[TheLastWolf]

2 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

I'd say the BwB outlaws have eliminated most of the dangerous outlaws

when Batman says, when u kill a killer the number of killers remains the same. so get around to killing a lot of them 

But in this case i fear the only ones left are the renegades themselves. harakiri ending i expect

 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

On 10/17/2023 at 12:51 PM, SerDuncan said:

Now I recall that essence of justice quote

  Reveal hidden contents

Coldness: Passionate murderers more likely to end up zealots, idealogues and fanatics. I recall a monologue from some film, "the very essence of justice is in the dispassionate execution, not hot blooded revenge" or something, paraphrased.

Anyway, with the encouragement of @Ser Arthurs Dawn I start my first topic after a long dormant observation period. The very concept of bounty hunters in a land under some form of law has never failed to make me ponder about the morality of such an occupation, the necessity in different periods and places and the sanctioning of something close to vigilantism, treading very close to the perilous cliff of states losing control. Law and currency are only shored by the trust held by the masses. Of course we can immediately think of the hedge knights and sellswords and there have been rewards on outlaws akin to bounties but nothing quite matching the scale and depth of a professional bounty hunter from a western (space ones included ) Ronin in Japan have a rich representation for instance. We have the aforementioned poor knights and mercs but a POV woven in could have explored this strata of society inworld. I still nurse a complaint that we never got a worthy grassroot level narrative from the common masses in the books and show likewise. Dunk & Egg offered the closest view imo, though not unlike the NPCs in medieval fantasy RPGs. Speculations on worthy candidates from the canon, say Hangman Hodor and general discussion are welcome. Thank you.

There are folks who fill the jack of all trades niche.  Bronn wouldn't object much to bounty hunting if you pay him enough.  A Hedge Knight would do the same for coin.  Men murdered Penny's brother because Cersei signed off on it and offered a reward.  A sitting authority gave the green light and the hunters killed Oppo. 

[SerDuncan]

15 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

There are folks who fill the jack of all trades niche.  Bronn wouldn't object much to bounty hunting if you pay him enough.  A Hedge Knight would do the same for coin.  Men murdered Penny's brother because Cersei signed off on it and offered a reward.  A sitting authority gave the green light and the hunters killed Oppo. 

But wasn't that meant for Tyrion? Like Daenerys, those are royalty, whereas very few commonfolk criminals and outlaws have rewards for their heads

[sweetsunray]

On 10/18/2023 at 1:34 AM, Alester Florent said:

I think there was a reward for returning Jaime to Robb after his escape, but I might misremember.

Karstark promised anyone who caught Jaime the hand of Alys Karstark in marriage.

[SerDuncan]

5 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Karstark promised anyone who caught Jaime the hand of Alys Karstark in marriage.

Who said daughters were burdens, look at the value they have as an incentive, a commodity, maybe when it comes to it, bargaining chips.

Those screaming "progressive", this is called a realistic portrayal. 

Anyway just remembered, the mountain clans of the Vale are wanted right?

And this ascent videogame has one, never heard of it tbh

Edited October 20, 2023 by SerDuncan

[SerDuncan]

Do the wildlings have some sort of reward on their heads, if they are caught on this side of the Wall?