Israel - Hamas War X

[Zorral]

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-another-blackout-in-gaza-imminent-if-sufficient-fuel-is-not-restored/

https://www.reuters.com/article/israel-palestinians-telecoms/paltel-jawwal-warn-of-imminent-telecom-blackout-in-gaza-due-to-lack-of-fuel-idINS8N3C6017

Despite all the talk out of Bibietc. fuel and other humanitarian aid allowed into Gaza is a trickle, if that much.

 

[Mudguard]

3 minutes ago, Zorral said:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-another-blackout-in-gaza-imminent-if-sufficient-fuel-is-not-restored/

https://www.reuters.com/article/israel-palestinians-telecoms/paltel-jawwal-warn-of-imminent-telecom-blackout-in-gaza-due-to-lack-of-fuel-idINS8N3C6017

Despite all the talk out of Bibietc. fuel and other humanitarian aid allowed into Gaza is a trickle, if that much.

 

Yeah, it's a pitiful amount.  Like the 300 liters of fuel to Al Shifa which is only enough to power the generators for an hour or so, this seems more for PR, than actually helping the people of Gaza.  

But this token amount allows them to claim that they are delivering fuel to Gaza and to Al Shifa.  

[Ran]

2 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

Like the 300 liters of fuel to Al Shifa which is only enough to power the generators for an hour or so

It was intended for a single ward, not the whole hospital, a point the IDF made.

24,000 liters on a fuel truck have also gone in today.

[Mudguard]

4 minutes ago, Ran said:

It was intended for a single ward, not the whole hospital, a point the IDF made.

24,000 liters on a fuel truck have also gone in today.

A large generator is going to burn through a lot of fuel even if you run it at the lowest setting.  As far as I know, the ward with the premature babies didn't have it's own dedicated smaller scale generator.

[Ran]

3 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

A large generator is going to burn through a lot of fuel even if you run it at the lowest setting.  As far as I know, the ward with the premature babies didn't have it's own dedicated smaller scale generator.

I have no idea. The IDF said it was an emergency supply that had been negotiated with staff at the hospital, so presumably they saw some use for it, but then Hamas told them they were not allowed to accept it. 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Ran

[Mudguard]

5 minutes ago, Ran said:

I have no idea. The IDF said it was an emergency supply that had been negotiated with staff at the hospital, so presumably they saw some use for it, but then Hamas told them they were not allowed to accept it.

Staff claimed they told the IDF they needed 9000-10000 liters per day.  As far as I'm aware, they never said 300 liters would be sufficient for anything.

I looked up some of the fuel burn rates of a typical hospital generator, and they can burn hundreds of GALLONS per hour, per generator.  300 liters is 80 gallons, so you can imagine even if you can run the generator at 10% of max capacity, which I'm not sure is possible, 80 gallons is only going to last a several hours tops.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Mudguard

[Ran]

4 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

Staff claimed they told the IDF they needed 9000-10000 liters per day.  As far as I'm aware, they never said 300 liters would be sufficient for anything.

The audio recording literally talks about Shifa sending an ambulance coming over to pick up the fuel.

In what universe did they expect an ambulance to pickup 9000 litres of fuel? None, which is why this is nonsense. The IDF offered an emergency supply, which they accepted, until they didn't.

300 litres would have lasted a number of hours to power some equipment or a ward, presumably to allow negotiations to discuss either more fuel or perhaps evacuation of whichever patients needed that fuel.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Ran

[Mudguard]

2 minutes ago, Ran said:

The audio recording literally talks about Shifa sending an ambulance coming over to pick up the fuel.

In what universe did they expect an ambulance to pickup 9000 litres of fuel? None, which is why this is nonsense. The IDF offered an emergency supply, which they accepted, until they didn't.

300 litres would have lasted a number of hours to power some equipment or a ward, presumably to allow negotiations to discuss either more fuel or perhaps evacuation of whichever patients needed that fuel.

You know you can make more than one trip with the ambulance right?

[Ran]

12 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

You know you can make more than one trip with the ambulance right?

The context of the conversaton is clear. A single ambulance, taking the fuel, rather than "send your ambulances" to "start taking the fuel" or whatever.

I mean, another hospital in Gaza said two generators they were using took 13L an hour. A smaller  generator at partial capacity could have taken half a day before depleting. Per the IDF, all they discussed was providing an emergency supply for urgent purposes. It was a stopgap, not a promise of a day of fuel for the whole hospital.

And Hamas spit on it, because of course they did, it's a PR win for Israel and they're probably pissed off hospital staff entered into discussions in the first place.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Ran

[Mudguard]

3 minutes ago, Ran said:

The context of the conversaton is clear. A single ambulance, taking the fuel, rather than "send your ambulances" to "start taking the fuel" or whatever.

I mean, another hospital in Gaza said two generators they were using took 13L an hour. A smaller  generator at partial capacity could have taken half a day before depleting. Per the IDF, all they discussed was providing an emergency supply for urgent purposes.

And Hamas spit on it, because of course they did, it's a PR win for Israel and they're probably pissed off hospital staff entered into discussions in the first place.

It can be a single ambulance making more than one trip...It would be easy to fit at least 20 25L gas containers in an ambulance.  Probably can easily do at least 50 containers if the ambulance is emptied out and you are just stacking cans in the back.  That's 1000L per trip.  Very doable with a single ambulance making 10 trips or so.  You are making it seem like this is a technological impossibility when it's trivial to accomplish.

13L per hour?  What type of generator was this?  Can you provide a link to this article?  If true, that's not a standard backup generator for a hospital.  A typical generator you can buy from Home Depot burns about 2 L per hour at 50% load.  You think 6 of these could run a hospital?

[Zorral]

No amount of handwaving and blame shifting can conceal that IDFBibietc.'s humanitarian actions are essentially bs.

[TrueMetis]

Looks like they delete the tweet @Mudguard posted. These guys really can't handle getting made fun of on Twitter.

Between the 300L of fuel for a hospital (supposedly left too far away for hospital staff to readily get to anyway), the boxes with "Medical Supplies" in giant English letters, and delivery incubators even though the problem wasn't a lack of actual incubators there's plenty to make fun of.

[Derfel Cadarn]

34 minutes ago, Ran said:

The context of the conversaton is clear. A single ambulance, taking the fuel, rather than "send your ambulances" to "start taking the fuel" or whatever.

I mean, another hospital in Gaza said two generators they were using took 13L an hour. A smaller  generator at partial capacity could have taken half a day before depleting. Per the IDF, all they discussed was providing an emergency supply for urgent purposes. It was a stopgap, not a promise of a day of fuel for the whole hospital.

And Hamas spit on it, because of course they did, it's a PR win for Israel and they're probably pissed off hospital staff entered into discussions in the first place.

Why does this hospital need fuel for generators? Why can’t it just get power from the power grid again…? 

Edited November 15, 2023 by Derfel Cadarn

[Ran]

21 minutes ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

Why does this hospital need fuel for generators? Why can’t it just get power from the power grid again…? 

A question for Hamas.

And the tweet with the video is up again, but without the "no edits" thing as people rightly pointed out that adding blurs over faces and the laptop screen count as "edits". Content seems the same, though.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Ran

[Mudguard]

11 minutes ago, TrueMetis said:

Looks like they delete the tweet @Mudguard posted. These guys really can't handle getting made fun of on Twitter.

Between the 300L of fuel for a hospital (supposedly left too far away for hospital staff to readily get to anyway), the boxes with "Medical Supplies" in giant English letters, and delivery incubators even though the problem wasn't a lack of actual incubators there's plenty to make fun of.

Looks like they reposted it just now, with a little editing maybe to blur out the photo on the laptop.  I don't think much was changed based on a quick click through various points of the video.

But yeah, their PR department needs some help.

[kissdbyfire]

34 minutes ago, Zorral said:

No amount of handwaving and blame shifting can conceal that IDFBibietc.'s humanitarian actions are essentially bs.

Well, no one's said fulfilling one's dream is ever easy or quick...

Quote

Commissioned by the family to write Yoni’s biography, Max Hastings portrayed him as a moody, stubborn loner, much like his father, only without his father’s brains – ‘a troubled young man of moderate intelligence, striving to come to terms with intellectual concepts beyond his grasp’. Far from being the peerless commander, Yoni had been ‘actively disliked by more than a few of his men’. Furious at Hastings, the Netanyahus had the book published in a bowdlerised form. Hastings, who wrote about his encounter with the family in his memoirs (‘one of the sorriest episodes of my career’), took a particularly strong dislike to Bibi, who boasted: ‘In the next war, if we do it right, we’ll have a chance to get all the Arabs out ... We can clear the West Bank, sort out Jerusalem.’ Bibi’s racism, Hastings recalled, wasn’t limited to Arabs. ‘He joked about the Golani Brigade, the infantry force in which so many men were North African or Yemeni Jews. “They’re OK as long as they are led by white officers,” he grinned.’

Loads more here.

[Zorral]

1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said:

Loads more here.

I read this when it came out in 2016. O my, what a stinking pile of offal is this guy.  No wonder the country's fallen over under the weight of his and his cronies and friends and friends of my enemies corruption.  But how in hell did they elect him in the first place? The same way *&%^% got elected presumably.

There is not even the faintest of possibilities Israel can get out of this mess with the least shred of world opinion trust or friendship with him at the head of it.  Israel can't afford towait for this war to conclude to throw him out.  So even more so he's got to put his eggs for any kind of survivial in the re-election coup of the US version of him.

Edited November 16, 2023 by Zorral

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

20 minutes ago, Zorral said:

There is not even the faintest of possibilities Israel can get out of this mess with the least shred of world opinion trust or friendship with him at the head of it.  Israel can't afford towait for this war to conclude to throw him out.  So even more so he's got to put his eggs for any kind of survivial in the re-election coup of the US version of him.

I'd be amazed if he survives this. His support has cratered. My fear, and I'm sure many share it, is that he'll try to drag this out as long as possible with the misguided hope that's the only way he can survive.

I still can't believe that piece of shit was ever able to regain power in the first place. 

[Kalbear]

1 hour ago, Ran said:

Did you wake up today deciding that a game of semantics was somehow going to be persuasive? Just because they call one thing an armory hardly means that all the things they call armories are minor. I'm sure they call buildings stuffed full with arms and munitions armories as well.

This isn't a game of semantics. It's pointing out that how Israel officials use words in one place is probably how they will use it elsewhere, especially when it is the person leading the war doing so.

It makes me, personally, question every single bombing for that reason. That wasn't something I had done previously to this - my objection was again not a legal one but a pragmatic one.

And no, it doesn't mean all the things that they call armories were as weak as this - but it does mean when you hear them say they bombed an armory it could mean something like this. It also likely means other things may be similar - that their bombing an enemy combatant may be someone who went to a hamas rally once, or bombing a fuel depot may mean a gas can. All technically accurate, but not close to proportionality.

 

[Kalbear]

Also, hamas reaches tentative deal to release about 50 hostages (apparently women) in exchange for a multi-day stop in fighting and a release of an unknown amount of prisoners.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/11/15/hamas-israel-gaza-hostage-deal/