Videogames: All Valves on Deck

[Werthead]

The Skyblivion guys did a big charity livestream today (almost 3 hours) and also did a big interview with some of the people who made Oblivion in the first place. Really cool stuff.

The Skyblivion build they're using is a few months old so interesting to see what changes before final release. Cool to see the navmesh is working now so most of the monsters can now wander around and attack. Some of the areas look excellent, 100% done, and others still a bit rough (they note where they had to elevate the bridge to Skingrad to make it look more awesome and hadn't finished tweaking the map geometry around it yet).

It also sounds like rather than just "2025" they are targeting "early 2025" for 1.0 release, which is great.

[Durckad]

11 hours ago, IlyaP said:

How's act 3 of Baldur's Gate 3? Has the latest hotfix improved the bugs? 

And do we know when the next patch/hotfix is due for release?

I'm at the very, very end of the game (should finish it this weekend) and Act 3 has been fine. As @Whiskeyjack noted, Lady Jannath's estate is a buggy mess that hard locked my game twice before I randomly got through it, but Act 3 doesn't seem all that buggier than the others. The same constant minor bugs that have been there since the start are still present but not in any greater quantities, but 1) I haven't finished the game yet so maybe the very ending is replete with bugs? and 2) I didn't get to Act 3 until well after the first round of fixes were released and those seem to have fixed the most egregious issues. So, IMO, it's perfectly playable now.

I'm also going to agree with others that Act 3 is not bad. In fact, it's my favorite part of the game. I think the wide open nature of it is why I like it. The game just hands you the reins and says "Go ahead. Do as you will." Rivington (and the circus) does kind of suck and it can grind the game to a halt if you let it, but both are over pretty quickly. Neither area has THAT much going on despite their appearances. You get a couple of quests at the very start and those funnel you deeper into Baldur's Gate and, from there, they quickly blossom out into more sprawling stories and events. Act 3 also has way more varied quest design and, much more importantly, more focused areas, which is kind of odd considering the sprawling nature of the city itself. For example, something like Cazador's palace would be twice as large if it was in Act 1 or 2. Instead, you get a couple of encounters, some lore dumps, and some decisions to make and then you're done. Nothing as needlessly and endlessly sprawling as, say, the mausoleum in Act 2.

So yeah, Act 3 > Act 1 >>>>> Act 2 for me.

6 hours ago, Whiskeyjack said:

  Hide contents

Handle the Orin situation before you go to the Steel Watch Foundry / Gortash stuff.  You can attend the Gortash coronation, but after that I personally left everything connected to him as the final series of missions in the city, and it worked out well.  Have heard of others doing it differently and running into issues. 

Spoiler

Which is funny because I did the exact opposite. Slowly but surely I whittled down Gortash's power before taking him down then I dealt with Orin.

And it seemed to work fine which goes to show how the open-ended nature of Act 3 works so well. You can literally just finish the game as soon as you feel you've tied up enough loose ends. I would agree it's structurally kind of messy, especially in how early on in the act you'll likely hit level cap and your only progression afterwards is in how much ludicrously overpowered gear you'll acquire.

Honestly, the more structured nature of Act 2 is why it stands out so negatively in my mind. That and it's just really fucking dull until the very end, at least. I very much had to force myself to play during Act 2 just to finish it. I'm not really having that problem in Act 3.

[IlyaP]

2 hours ago, Durckad said:

Honestly, the more structured nature of Act 2 is why it stands out so negatively in my mind. That and it's just really fucking dull until the very end, at least. I very much had to force myself to play during Act 2 just to finish it. I'm not really having that problem in Act 3.

Gods I hated Act 2. Particularly near the end, when I had to go chase someone down a worm or something, as the directional markers kept pointing me at some kind of crack in the wall of the rafters of a castle, and the lead-up to the battle with JK Simons Von Elfling just felt aimless and tedious. Especially when some Raphael guy showed up, who I *think* I might have encountered in Act 1, but who either way felt like some random external outsider showing up for...some reason, and I just didn't care, as he showed up once before, annoyed me, and now here he was again, with his car salesman-like nonsense. 

Also, this engine really seems to struggle when trying to let me see my party and environs around me when inside buildings. Upon entering Act 3, and wandering around some abandoned property where I gleefully told some landlord off, the camera kept getting cut off by bits of the second level of the building, forcing me to *constantly* have to move the camera around to look at things. 

It's terrific for outdoor environs, no arguments there. But I really struggled with indoor environments.

[Corvinus85]

6 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

Gods I hated Act 2. Particularly near the end, when I had to go chase someone down a worm or something, as the directional markers kept pointing me at some kind of crack in the wall of the rafters of a castle, and the lead-up to the battle with JK Simons Von Elfling just felt aimless and tedious. Especially when some Raphael guy showed up, who I *think* I might have encountered in Act 1, but who either way felt like some random external outsider showing up for...some reason, and I just didn't care, as he showed up once before, annoyed me, and now here he was again, with his car salesman-like nonsense. 

How dare you besmirch the greatest villain in the game!

[IlyaP]

I...found him grating and annoying? 

[Corvinus85]

18 minutes ago, IlyaP said:

I...found him grating and annoying? 

The dude has his own Disney villain theme song. You clearly hate fun.

[Poobah]

I also quite liked being at level cap for much of Act 3. Too many games only give you the fun toys for the final boss and call it good pacing, but I want to actually get to play with the shit I've been working towards the whole game and BG3 gave me a ton of big encounters and boss fights to go wild in and I thank it for the opportunity to show what disgusting things 4 level 12 characters are capable of even when faced with potentially overwhelming numbers and very powerful foes.

[Durckad]

2 hours ago, IlyaP said:

Gods I hated Act 2. Particularly near the end, when I had to go chase someone down a worm or something, as the directional markers kept pointing me at some kind of crack in the wall of the rafters of a castle, and the lead-up to the battle with JK Simons Von Elfling just felt aimless and tedious. Especially when some Raphael guy showed up, who I *think* I might have encountered in Act 1, but who either way felt like some random external outsider showing up for...some reason, and I just didn't care, as he showed up once before, annoyed me, and now here he was again, with his car salesman-like nonsense. 

Personally, he's one of my favorite antagonists in the game, but I'm a fan of charming, scheming devils, especially the kinds that play the friend but you just know they'll stab you in the back for something in the end.

I did find Act 2 incredibly tedious up until that point. I will admit I audibly groaned when that happened but everything after was great, IMO.

Quote

Also, this engine really seems to struggle when trying to let me see my party and environs around me when inside buildings. Upon entering Act 3, and wandering around some abandoned property where I gleefully told some landlord off, the camera kept getting cut off by bits of the second level of the building, forcing me to *constantly* have to move the camera around to look at things. 

It's terrific for outdoor environs, no arguments there. But I really struggled with indoor environments.

Yeah the engine sucks. There're constant LOS issues due to how weird the geography works as well, alone with the misclicks due to pieces of the terrain popping in at the most inopportune of times. Most of the times it's just annoying but sometimes it can happen during combat which can be very bad. The LOS issues are incredibly annoying.

1 hour ago, Poobah said:

I also quite liked being at level cap for much of Act 3. Too many games only give you the fun toys for the final boss and call it good pacing, but I want to actually get to play with the shit I've been working towards the whole game and BG3 gave me a ton of big encounters and boss fights to go wild in and I thank it for the opportunity to show what disgusting things 4 level 12 characters are capable of even when faced with potentially overwhelming numbers and very powerful foes.

You know, I never thought of it like that, but that's a good point. I do think there is enough content in Act 3 that the level cap could go up to 13 and you could still have this effect, but honestly, hitting level cap so early wasn't that big of an issue for me. I do understand how others could be more annoyed by it as it does make the pacing kinda off.

Edited February 3 by Durckad

[IlyaP]

21 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

The dude has his own Disney villain theme song. You clearly hate fun.

*shrug*

He just...grated on me, in a slimy, 70s greasy-haired sleazebag car salesman kind of way. Obviously, different strokes for different folks. 

[IlyaP]

2 minutes ago, Durckad said:

Yeah the engine sucks. There're constant LOS issues due to how weird the geography works as well, alone with the misclicks due to pieces of the terrain popping in at the most inopportune of times. Most of the times it's just annoying but sometimes it can happen during combat which can be very bad. The LOS issues are incredibly annoying.

This is what drove me nuts in DOS2 as well any time I had to go inside a building or location. 

And it made me yearn for a fixed camera a la the original 2 Baldur's Gates, where at least then I wouldn't be fighting the camera. It's been one of my main kvetches with the game. And something that I found Solasta: Crown of the Magister didn't struggle with as much. 

[Durckad]

51 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

How dare you besmirch the greatest villain in the game!

tbf "used car salesman" is an incredibly apt description for a scheming minor devil. 

"Oh you want the extended warranty? Well, sign here, here, here, and here. Oh, the pen is empty, you'll have to use your blood and... don't mind the smoke as you write. Yes, this all standard, I can assure you of that. Oh you'll want to sign there for bumper realignment and there for extra hubcap fluid as well." 

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

Guys just a reminder, some people , myself included, are still playing BG3 and I’m still on Act 1 so kindly keep the discussion as vague and spoiler free as possible, there’s a specific bg3 thread where y’all can go all out.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II]

5 hours ago, Werthead said:

The Skyblivion guys did a big charity livestream today (almost 3 hours) and also did a big interview with some of the people who made Oblivion in the first place. Really cool stuff.

The Skyblivion build they're using is a few months old so interesting to see what changes before final release. Cool to see the navmesh is working now so most of the monsters can now wander around and attack. Some of the areas look excellent, 100% done, and others still a bit rough (they note where they had to elevate the bridge to Skingrad to make it look more awesome and hadn't finished tweaking the map geometry around it yet).

It also sounds like rather than just "2025" they are targeting "early 2025" for 1.0 release, which is great.

Bethesda should just whole heartedly support this instead of working on their own remastered version of Oblivion.

[Durckad]

33 minutes ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Guys just a reminder, some people , myself included, are still playing BG3 and I’m still on Act 1 so kindly keep the discussion as vague and spoiler free as possible, there’s a specific bg3 thread where y’all can go all out.

Ah fuck, sorry about that. I lost my original post and forgot to spoiler tag some stuff when I recreated it. Mea culpa.

[IlyaP]

2 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Guys just a reminder, some people , myself included, are still playing BG3 and I’m still on Act 1 so kindly keep the discussion as vague and spoiler free as possible, there’s a specific bg3 thread where y’all can go all out.

Argh. My bad. 

So, uh, like, stuff happens. And there's, like, blood and some swearing. 

And then some other things happen. At the place. You know - with like, people. 

AND THEN ROCKS FALL AND EVERYBODY DIES**.

 

** Or maybe not. It's a surprise! 

[Werthead]

9 hours ago, Ser Rodrigo Belmonte II said:

Bethesda should just whole heartedly support this instead of working on their own remastered version of Oblivion.

You can't really remaster Oblivion at this point, it needs a ground-up remake, which is what these guys are doing, albeit not as well as could be done. They note in the stream that although they can push the graphics way beyond Skyrim levels and build much bigger dungeons and environments, they can't address underlying problems in the codebase of the engine they are using. They note they could save so much time with some of the tools Fallout 4 introduced but they're limited to the OG Skyrim version of the engine.

Although I believe once the game is out, they're going to investigate backporting it to the Special Edition branch, which is actually built on the Fallout 4 codebase to allow for things like better water and weather effects.

People in the comments asking if they could port it to Starfield and they don't even answer that, as they don't even know if it will be possible or how long it would take.

[Ser Not Appearing]

Is it not a bit weird that BG3 is so good early that it was able to win game of the year despite that many people talk about act 3 like is borderline unplayable in many ways? Sometimes I think about that and it almost does begin to feel like an injustice to whoever the other competitors were. Almost like rewarding a bait and switch.

[Werthead]

Got my BattleTech back on, this time trying Career Mode. Interesting start, much less time pressure from the main quest not getting on your back but it can turn into a bit of a grind before you're ready to tackle the low-level flashpoints. Starting again with Light and Medium mechs after getting used to trundling around with my four-Assault squad is humbling. Damn, I forgot how great the combat in this game is.

I might look at the modding scene. BattleTech Extended 3025-62 seems to be the best bet, adding some story material related to the Clan Invasion.

11 hours ago, Ser Not Appearing said:

Is it not a bit weird that BG3 is so good early that it was able to win game of the year despite that many people talk about act 3 like is borderline unplayable in many ways? Sometimes I think about that and it almost does begin to feel like an injustice to whoever the other competitors were. Almost like rewarding a bait and switch.

Act 3 had huge technical problems early on, rendering it almost unplayable for a couple of weeks. They fixed those problems pretty quickly. Act 3 still has structural issues plotwise, but they're hardly crippling; the moment-to-moment gameplay remains pretty good and some of the most enjoyable combat encounters come in Act III, even if the pacing means you can have five or six massive boss fights in quick succession.

There's better ways of tightening that up, but I'd say that Act III is a bit like Return of the King (book and film): easily the weakest part of the overall saga, but still a reasonably good time, and with plenty of iconic moments in itself.

[Darryk]

I liked Act 3 but it wasn't as good as Baldur's Gate city from the first game.

[IlyaP]

5 minutes ago, Darryk said:

I liked Act 3 but it wasn't as good as Baldur's Gate city from the first game.

I can't help but think that the city of Baldur's Gate in BG3 looks somewhat different from BG1, which, given the hundreds of hours I've put into BG1, is...jarring.