Danys prospects

[astarkchoice]

Ok following on a thought i had in last thread about unsullied. If the good people of westeros can deal with the others all by themselves what would people feel about danyn rebuilding the valayrian empire from slavers bay as an ending for her story?

 

Once she wins in slavers bay the slave population of essos free cities could be set to explode esp given the religious ferver of the fire cult hailing her as their saviour.

The military loss and uprising as well as the pale mare hitting new ghis legions and the tolosi and elyrian mercs (and probably taking it home ) and the faceless men probably waiting for an oppertunity like this to end slavery with some choice targetted assasinations its probably the end for slavery in essos.

 

In the dothraki sea dany can learn to bond with drogo and end up ending the dothraki by cooking their capital (ending all cultural anchors)  and a.large part of their largest khalassars. 

Dany can slowy rebuild probably with something between  the bravos and westeros model for the former slave states,maybe find slaves of valyran blood to be fellow dragonriders and future dragonspawn they produce.

 

Quarth may resist but shes sorta planted seeds for its taking anyway....the former quartheen citiy where they found water outside, her and euron combined have almost finished off their wizzards!

 

Yi-ti beside quarth is ripe for conquest as it says current emperor is weak as his power is diluted as local goveners and tax collecters have  carved out mini kingdoms for themselves and 2 major cities the bases of major rebellions

Quaithe and archmaester marwyn guiding her later  in asshai to relean how to rebond with dragons and maybe helping gain the info needed to help future riders bond with them.

Finaly with the dothraki scattered the dothraki sea can slowly be reclaimed starting by backing the lhazareen with military forces or dragon rider flyovers

[Aldarion]

38 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Ok following on a thought i had in last thread about unsullied. If the good people of westeros can deal with the others all by themselves what would people feel about danyn rebuilding the valayrian empire from slavers bay as an ending for her story?

 

I would actually like that.

39 minutes ago, astarkchoice said:

Dany can slowy rebuild probably with something between  the bravos and westeros model for the former slave states,maybe find slaves of valyran blood to be fellow dragonriders and future dragonspawn they produce.

 

That is actually what I had suggested once. Historically, Romans had replaced largely slavery with colonate by late 3rd / 4th century AD - and colonate was the origin of feudalism.

[astarkchoice]

1 hour ago, Aldarion said:

I would actually like that.

That is actually what I had suggested once. Historically, Romans had replaced largely slavery with colonate by late 3rd / 4th century AD - and colonate was the origin of feudalism.

Would kinda fit with her slaves being her 'children' arc..they literaly become the heirs to a new stronger targ empire

[Sydney Mae]

Westeros will be part of a future Daenerys empire but the ending of the story take place while she is in the act of consolidating territories.  She has to pass beneath the shadow before she can have the light again.  Westeros will be nearly sterile because of the white walkers and the environmental disaster of a long darkness.  A Dream of Spring will be the last title and it concludes the story because she will be preparing her people to migrate to Westeros.  Moses wandered for years and so it will be the same with Dany and her people before they can move to and rebuild Westeros. 

A Game of Thrones began with Bran and ended with Daenerys.  I think that is the structure of the story when you see it from a big perspective.  Winter, the season of death, began with Bran.  Bran's rise is the beginning of the death of Westeros.  Daenerys is the Mother being who will stop Winter and end Bran's season of death in order to bring life back to the land.

[Him of Many Faces]

The show is the show, but we can't ignore some obvious things it spoiled no matter how much we want to keep the books separate from it :/ We know the broad strokes about her ending. She will rule no empire.

[Aebram]

Eliminating slavery in so many countries across the known world will probably take many years and many battles. I don't think there will be room in the books for that, unless the George uses an intermittent writing style, where a few chapters are spread across a long span of time, and we learn about most of the battles by dialog and characters' memories..

(Personally, I think the world he's built is too big to be limited by a finite number of books. It's fine with me if he just keeps on writing more and more of them. Book 8 could be titled "The Flames of Freedom.")

[SeanF]

9 hours ago, Aebram said:

Eliminating slavery in so many countries across the known world will probably take many years and many battles. I don't think there will be room in the books for that, unless the George uses an intermittent writing style, where a few chapters are spread across a long span of time, and we learn about most of the battles by dialog and characters' memories..

(Personally, I think the world he's built is too big to be limited by a finite number of books. It's fine with me if he just keeps on writing more and more of them. Book 8 could be titled "The Flames of Freedom.")

If a large part of the Dothraki leave the slave trade, Slavers Bay is liberated, and Volantis revolts, that puts the slavers very much on the defensive in Western Essos.  It’s unlikely Tolos and Mantarys could hold out, and that would leave Myr, Lys, and Tyrosh in a precarious position.

Any successful revolt/liberation drives home that the slaves are many, and the slavers are few.

[astarkchoice]

10 hours ago, Aebram said:

Eliminating slavery in so many countries across the known world will probably take many years and many battles. I don't think there will be room in the books for that, unless the George uses an intermittent writing style, where a few chapters are spread across a long span of time, and we learn about most of the battles by dialog and characters' memories..

(Personally, I think the world he's built is too big to be limited by a finite number of books. It's fine with me if he just keeps on writing more and more of them. Book 8 could be titled "The Flames of Freedom.")

It could happen very rapidly given whats been building

 

The 3 main slavers bay cities are the main 'processing' area for training slaves up for their various roles and they are about to fall to slaves as are most of the free cities. There's no one set up to break and train up slaves en masse as they are! 

The widow in volantis seems to hint in her city at least the slaves are awaiting dany or a signal to begin their revolt. The slaves vastly outnumber their masters and most are im the fire religion which sees dany as their saviour..if 'she ' wins in slavers bay again itl be the spark that could kickstart the end of slavery. " tell her we are waiting, tell her to come soon"

In volantis alone (the major hub for moving slaves back west)  we know the widow has her own small loyal armed force ready, half the normaly fiercely loyal tiger cloaks are fire worshippers, most of their marine force is away to slavers bay and the biggest fire temple there has its own 1000 elite force too. One of the 3 triarchs also may be hampered as they had ilyrio as one of their biggest sponsors for election.

For the free cities  many of the mercs theyd use to pit uprisings down would be in the disputed lands as we hear early in the books the  clashes  there had restarted and slaves are reported as like 3-5 to onevs freemen . The iron banks sponsoring stannis to raise 20k mercs in bravos means whats left of the sellsword companies are proabably there or halfway there already!!!

In new ghis a large part of the pro slavery free men in their iron  legions are about to die in battle or by bloody flux.

We know quarth between dany and euron the wizzards have taken a huge hit and they probably have  had a  huge  effect as a terror weapon for keeping slaves in check! The quartheen are naturaly poor combatants so the losses their camel corps and ships endure may shock them and if not dany had begun to restore a cjty with freshwater outside its walls meaning for once its vunerable from armies comming from the red wastes!

Add in the anti slavery faceless men monitering world events may strike strategic targets to prevent orgainised resistance as may  pro targ varys little 'mice/birds' network in the free cities!

Finaly dany is with the dothraki one of the major slave capturing forces..where we assume she will either lead them from slavery ...or bring them fire and blood when she finaly masters drogo, perhaps burning vaes dothrak for good ending the dothraki culture for good.

Edited January 16 by astarkchoice

[Gilbert Green]

Conquest will not work out for Dany.

For the sake of Power, she will bond with Drogon; a dragon who eats maidens.  But the bond goes both ways.  And this case it will be more the dragon controlling the rider, than the rider controlling the dragon.

For the sake of Power and Conquest, she will marry.  But the man she marries will be even more monstrous than her dragon.

She will go to Westeros; and Drogon will be the Mount she will "ride to dread".

In the end she will try to break free; from the Reigns of Power; from Drogon; from her Husband; from the dread cycle of death and carnage.  But her dragon will not obey; and her husband will cut her tongue out.

So she will disguise herself as a silent sister, saddle up her silver, and try to escape.

She will be the girl in grey on a dying horse, fleeing from the marriage they have made for her.

And when her horse dies under her, she will find her third mount, because three mounts must she ride.

It will be a direwolf.

I have no inside information.  I have not read GRRM's secret outlines.  These are only ideas.  Please don't kill me.

 

[Aebram]

SeanF and Astarkchoice, you made some good points. It does look like many of the slave cities are in a fragile condition. But freeing the slaves is not simply a matter of killing the masters. Remember what happened in Astapor; Dany certainly does. And in Meereen as well, she is encountering many obstacles and resistance to her goal.

Dany genuinely wants to be a good ruler. She wouldn't want to leave a trail of Astapors in her wake ... at least not yet. I suppose some evil event or person might transform her into the Mad Queen ...

[The Lord of the Crossing]

Dany will follow her destiny because she is Azor Ahai.  It will be difficult at first because she will have to leave a lot of reforms before they are finished in Slaver's Bay.  She will come to Westeros, clean up the problems made by Robert, Jaime, the Greyjoys, and the Starks.  A Westeros united under her banner will make it through the Long Night.

[SeanF]

6 hours ago, Aebram said:

SeanF and Astarkchoice, you made some good points. It does look like many of the slave cities are in a fragile condition. But freeing the slaves is not simply a matter of killing the masters. Remember what happened in Astapor; Dany certainly does. And in Meereen as well, she is encountering many obstacles and resistance to her goal.

Dany genuinely wants to be a good ruler. She wouldn't want to leave a trail of Astapors in her wake ... at least not yet. I suppose some evil event or person might transform her into the Mad Queen ...

I think that some freed cities are bound to finish up, ruled by tyrants, just as parts of Europe, the Americas, and the Caribbean did, during and after the Age of Revolutions (1790-1830).  Yet, the destruction of chatteldom will have been a real step forward.

[astarkchoice]

6 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Dany will follow her destiny because she is Azor Ahai.  It will be difficult at first because she will have to leave a lot of reforms before they are finished in Slaver's Bay.  She will come to Westeros, clean up the problems made by Robert, Jaime, the Greyjoys, and the Starks.  A Westeros united under her banner will make it through the Long Night.

Huh? Robert and the starks havent really made any problems...other than roberts spending and maybe ned being a bit lazy aa warden of the north (lettint moat catlin rot more, the tower rot and not doing more for the watch) but other than that their rule has been peacful and good to the common people and lords alike. 

Jamie? Other than lead the westerlands army to glory then loss he has t really done anything significant for the realm other than save kingslanding from wildfire decades ago

The greyjoys have caused some issues but due to balon dying and stannis campaign a lot of their damage has  been negated

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

7 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Dany will follow her destiny because she is Azor Ahai.  It will be difficult at first because she will have to leave a lot of reforms before they are finished in Slaver's Bay.  She will come to Westeros, clean up the problems made by Robert, Jaime, the Greyjoys, and the Starks.  A Westeros united under her banner will make it through the Long Night.

Excuse me, who is your list of problem makers? lol. You seem to have forgetten the primary culprits. The Lannisters. You know the people who started the war, committed the most horrific war crimes during said war, and then extended the wars later on...while committing more atrocities. Those folks. Or, since your name is here, the Freys...who committed a grevious war crime/crime against humanity so bad that is going to cause major repercussions over the next book (probably with most of those people of Crossing dying horrifically). 

But honestly even without specifically blaming people primarily responsible...if you are going to list people responsible, this is how I would do it - the Lannisters, the Starks, the Baratheons, the Greyjoys, the Martells, the Tyrells, the Tullys, the Freys, the Boltons, and all their bannermen. (yes, I wrote every major house besides the Arryns who have so far not been involved in the war). Because they are all at least partially responsible for the current horrible war that is raging and has been raging in Westeros. Robert was an idiot of a King who did nothing to secure his Kingdom and allowed his small council to be full of a bunch of snakes in addition to doing nothing to check the ambition and growing power of the Lannisters (even regarding his wife, who ...essentially usurped him, as incapable of doing those things. He underestimated her basically. Badly.) The other Baratheons were quick to establish their own power base and begin warring against the Iron Throne given the chance (whether you agree with their motivations or not). The Lannisters are grasping power grabbing narcisstic douchetools who quite literally use murder and rape to punish others for not doing what they want them to do, and they are the primary reason for the war of 5 kings, and acting like they aren't...is just not reading the text correctly. The Starks did indeed antagonize the Lannisters (even if said Lannisters are the primary problem) and Ned and Catelyn certainly didn't de-escalate things (and Robb fairly directly escalted them....again even if you agree with his motivations). The Tyrells backed multiple contenders, although I would aruge their army has mostly been a stabalizing factor so far....they certainly weren't trying to avoid war by any means. The Martells are, up to this point, far less culpable in the war, yet I think they were be the primary power base as Aegon I Blackfyre makes his move on the throne. The Greyjoys are horrible horrible people...but I digress, they have caused just so much death, basically for entirely selfish and idiotic reasons that are only loosely related to anybody else so far, lol. The Tullys were...subservient to Robb, but still involved in the war. The Freys and Boltons are psychopath dickwads who literally used war as an excuse to be especially grasping and horrible, leading to countless death. 

Like, not just to the person I am responding to, but to everyone - Eveyone in this universe is responsible, even the dudes (genderless form of dudes here) you like. There is essentially no characters in these books without blood on their hands if they are in power in any way whatsoever (examples of people without blood on their hands : Hot Pie, Pia, Barra, etc). 

[SaffronLady]

54 minutes ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

There is essentially no characters in these books without blood on their hands if they are in power in any way whatsoever

Essentially, holding power both in real-life and fantasy is like grasping a sword by the blade - you get blood on your hands, sometimes literally, mostly metaphorically.

[SeanF]

2 hours ago, astarkchoice said:

Huh? Robert and the starks havent really made any problems...other than roberts spending and maybe ned being a bit lazy aa warden of the north (lettint moat catlin rot more, the tower rot and not doing more for the watch) but other than that their rule has been peacful and good to the common people and lords alike. 

Jamie? Other than lead the westerlands army to glory then loss he has t really done anything significant for the realm other than save kingslanding from wildfire decades ago

The greyjoys have caused some issues but due to balon dying and stannis campaign a lot of their damage has  been negated

Jaime does bear quite a bit of the blame.  His incest with Cersei, and then throwing Bran out of the window, were big factors in leading to war.

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

On 1/17/2024 at 7:02 PM, SeanF said:

Jaime does bear quite a bit of the blame.  His incest with Cersei, and then throwing Bran out of the window, were big factors in leading to war.

Specifying Jaime is the problem in my opinion, not blaming him. Acting like Jaime is more responsible then Tywin or Cersei would be like me blaming a car three cars away for swerving slightly instead of the car that overreacted and smashed into my car for my car accident. People love to choose some character they dislike and then ignore....the people who literally do war. Tywin. Tywin started the war. Tywin literally started the war, and everyone like somehow doesn't list him first. He did the war!! He pulled the first trigger. He is the guy who fired his gun first, and somehow everyone ignores it. Tywin should be listed first in ANY list talking about the reasons for the war. Like in other fanbases I see people pointing out surrounding circumstances because people are too focused on blaming the first trigger person...in this fanbase we somehow don't talk about the actual people primarily responsible for the war and blame random side characters/actors (Jaime is a main character but he is not a main character in the sense of war. He is on the side of others, putting blame for him at he forefront is stupid. Jaime didn't order people to start a war. He didn't order retaliation. He wasn't involved in peace treaties or negotiations tell book 4...and then only as an emissary of Cersei/Tommen and under orders from Cersei. Robb, yes, Robb, is more responsible for the war than Jamie. And don't get me wrong, I like Robb more than Jamie....but so what? Robb had primary responsibility for continuing the war. Me liking him doesn't change that). 

Also, since I don't want to have anything to do with blaming the Starks primarily. It was the Lannisters. Again. The Lannisters, particularly Tywin and Cersei (and kind of Joffrey) are the prime reasons there was a war. Period. They usurped the throne y'all. Like, take a step back. They usurped the throne. That's why there is a war! Eddard KNOWING they usurped the throne and acting on it is not the primary responsibility here, that would be the people doing the usurping. Again, another analogy. Blaming the Starks over the Lannisters is like people who act like the problem is the kid who tattles and not the kids doing bad shit. As a teacher, I've seen some teachers who do that, and it makes me crazy. Let's not do it folks. Cersei wanted to usurp the throne. Tywin was basically looking for an excuse to invade the Riverlands and wants absolute power/control for himself. Joffrey ......wants to......honestly, I don't know, but he's a tyrant. Tyrion very capably led a campaign against people he knew were in the right in support of people he knew were horrible people because he lusted for power and to be loved. 

Edited January 18 by Lord of Raventree Hall

[Groo]

On 1/15/2024 at 5:24 AM, astarkchoice said:

Ok following on a thought i had in last thread about unsullied. If the good people of westeros can deal with the others all by themselves what would people feel about danyn rebuilding the valayrian empire from slavers bay as an ending for her story?

She's basically lived her entire life in Essos. Her story takes place entirely in Essos. The politics, wars, and struggles she's dealt with are all internal to Essos. If she stopped worrying about the Seven Kingdoms that she's never really been to then what you're suggesting would be a natural conclusion to her story. I doubt that will happen, though, just because GRRM keeps sending Westerosi characters her way. It's hard, for example, to picture Tyrion's story ending in Essos helping Dany put an end to slavery.  

[StarkTullies]

On 1/17/2024 at 3:25 AM, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

You seem to have forgetten the primary culprits. The Lannisters.

Among the small but vocal fandom who believes that Targaryens have a divine right to rule because of their racial superiority and they are the champions of the world who nobly practiced incest for generations so they could wisely and knowingly resurrect a pure-blooded Azor Ahai, fulfilled by the birth of the perfect Emperess Daenerys Targaryen conceived by sibling-rape whose birth brought forth the worst storm in known history, I don't see much criticism of the Lannisters because they weren't part of the conspiracy theory "STAB Alliance".  The exception is Jaime, the worst of all Lannisters, because he was way out of line for stopping his Targaryen superior from setting fire to a city he had a right to burn because Kings Landing and all of Westeros belonged to him.

I would say that Lannisters generally getting a pass is odd because Tywin Lannister betrayed Mad King Targaryen... except Tywin more than made up for it by murdering a lot of Starks.  And this same fanbase apparently thinks that George is writing 4 of the 6 main characters- the Starks- as the story's ultra-villains whom Daenerys will heroically defeat.

It's absolutely ridiculous.

[SaffronLady]

18 minutes ago, StarkTullies said:

George is writing 4 of the 6 main characters- the Starks- as the story's ultra-villains

Villain protags are haaaard to write. Personal experience, though.