Larry of the Lawn Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said: I literally just slept with someone without a college degree who said she knew as much about politics as someone with a PhD. You run into this all the time. Most people vastly overestimate what they know while doing very little work to gain rudimentary information. That's America bro. Most people I've met who even feel comfortable talking about politics are just like that which is why it's fun to meet individuals who actually know what they're talking about. Can't negotiated a ceasefire if Hamas says a ceasefire to them means Israel stops attacking, but they still can. Regardless of what someone does or doesn't know about politics, everyone gets the same vote. I hope your superior education and information brings you satisfaction. Re: ceasefire, ok, my mistake - I should have said asking for a ceasefire. Biden asking for a ceasefire (not a resolution to ask for one at some point when it makes sense, which iirc was the last proposal) wouldn't depend on anything Hamas does or doesn't do. It's not like Biden's Gaza response is some binary of full support of Israel vs sanction them. Just show the bulk of voters, who support a ceasefire, that he's doing more than giving Israel carte blanche. Edited February 28 by Larry of the Lawn The Mance 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 28 minutes ago, Maithanet said: To me the media being shitty is true, but largely orthogonal to whether primary voters should express dissatisfaction with Biden's Gaza stance. Then I think you're underestimating how the media coverage is going to impact things. "But her e-mails!" isn't a thing because it's a funny meme. It's the natural consequence of how the media fails. Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 9 minutes ago, Jaxom 1974 said: Then I think you're underestimating how the media coverage is going to impact things. "But her e-mails!" isn't a thing because it's a funny meme. It's the natural consequence of how the media fails. Maybe this is just agree to disagree, but I don't think that the way to support Biden is by just remaining silent about any missteps voters feel he is making for fear of creating a negative media cycle. There is a point at which Democrats need to restrain their criticism of him and focus on winning, but I don't think this is where we're at. Expressing disagreement in primary voting is something healthy political parties need to be able to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyoshi Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 (edited) 48 minutes ago, TrackerNeil said: It's weird that my statement "this situation is complicated' is "overly simplistic." But whatever blows your skirt up. Just because you state your reductive statement is actually complex, doesn't make it complex. Additionally, making a dismissive statement about people not understanding a cause they have tirelessly marched for is also reductive, especially when they articulate precisely why they stand for that cause. If anything, the increased marches indicate increased understanding. I've been pro-Palestine since the early 2000s, it's been an incredibly lonely cause simply because people didn't know. But now they know. The "it's a complex issue" argument has been used, in my experience, by people who simply want to shut down sympathy for Palestinians. The likes of Nancy Pelosi, most recently, who have gone as far as planting the idea that pro-Palestine protesters are so uninformed on this oh-so infinitely complex issue, increased activism has to have been paid for by China or Russia in an effort to destabilise American democracy. It's dishonest and intellectually condescending. It only serves to get people/voters off the hook, because if things are "complex," then who are we to take a stand, who are we to have an opinion, who are we to care? But Sheikh Jarrah happened, people's eyes were opened, now they care about Palestine, period. No misunderstanding required. Edited February 28 by Kyoshi Clarity. Larry of the Lawn and TrackerNeil 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 13 hours ago, Mr. Chatywin et al. said: It should be taught on the day dumb shit is. There's actually a lot of people who did this in the 60's and 70's to protest the war. It had no meaningful impact on policy. They should have run for office instead. Or started a new charity if they didn't find one they liked. Glorifying violent suicides is an odd hill to die on. Can you point out the charities that had a meaningful adjustment to the Vietnam war policy? Or the people who ran for office and changed Nixon's policy? I'm really struggling to see how your suggestions had any actual effect too - does that mean it was pointless to do so? 12 hours ago, Jace, Extat said: All this talk of Biden losing votes over supporting Israel in their defensive war against Hamas' terroristic statelet misses that most democrats approve of his handling of the issue. Abandoning an ally who has been attacked and had their citizens hauled away by an enemy would be a great way to lose my vote, and I'm sure that of many others. So y'all asking for a reputation-destroying flip flop aren't making any sense. And I'm far from a fangirl of Biden's. Way I see it, he has the backing of the American people and of his broader party in supporting Israel in their defensive war against a terrorist state. He should continue to do so. The numbers are on his side. Like I said, it may be that Biden is just fucked and he's taking the least fucked option. Either way he'll likely lose votes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: I’m asking you a question because I don’t know the answer to that question. The man who immolated himself stated online that there are no civilians in Israel. I’m asking if you agree? No, he stated that there are no civilians in Israel who are not participating in the illegal settlement of Palestine. Where you actually cut sentences matters. Or shouid I say that you also said there are no civilians in Israel? It's just as legitimate a statement. It is also incredibly remarkable to me that people who otherwise espouse freedom of speech and voting values are getting so angry about a measly 13% of an uncommitted vote in a primary election. It's remarkable what principles will get thrown away when someone is afraid. Craving Peaches, Larry of the Lawn and straits 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 6 minutes ago, Kalbear said: No, he stated that there are no civilians in Israel who are not participating in the illegal settlement of Palestine. And that justifies… what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: And that justifies… what? Fuck if I know, but it's important to actually say what the hell the guy said instead of making it something different. It also is not a sign of mental illness. It probably is a sign he was effectively radicalized - and that is bad by itself, but you don't need to also conflate it with depression or anxiety or any of the other ways y'all tried to dehumanize him. From reading that blurb I think he was trying to show how very angry Palestinians could be at Israelis. Not the Israeli government, not Israeli soldiers, but Israelis. As he put it, imagine living in poverty and a police state while at night you can hear a giant music festival and see the lights from it. Think about how unfair that must feel to those people. It doesn't justify any action specifically, but hopefully you can at least understand the anger a lot of folks had. I think from his blurb there this guy was also feeling that anger. Craving Peaches and straits 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 11 minutes ago, Kalbear said: . It's remarkable what principles will get thrown away when someone is afraid. Yeah, post 9/11 was the first time I witnessed it on a societal level instead of just reading about it, but it is striking how quickly it's rearing it's head again. Hopefully it's much more limited and fleeting here and now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luzifer's right hand Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 hour ago, Hmmm said: No, but supporting the intentional targeting of Israeli civilians is. Or like that guy, claiming that there are not even any real Israeli civilians. Well, it is actually more of an Hamas/Islamist viewpoint than a left wing viewpoint, though it can be seen that some leftwing extremists have adopted it. It's is a pretty loud viewpoint among people invested in the topic on the pro-Palestinian side in my experience. I mean you just have the look up social media posts shortly after the attacks last year. People even blame the foreign workers and students killed, injured and abduced for supporting Israel. Ran and Ser Scot A Ellison 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 1 minute ago, Larry of the Lawn said: Yeah, post 9/11 was the first time I witnessed it on a societal level instead of just reading about it, but it is striking how quickly it's rearing it's head again. Hopefully it's much more limited and fleeting here and now. Nah. It's here, it's here to stay, and it's gonna get a lot worse. There are too many pressures on the US and in the world in general for it to abate. Democratic principles are one of the things people willingly sacrifice when they're scared and when scarcity starts coming. But it's still interesting to me to see which people give up those ideals and why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Just now, Kalbear said: Nah. It's here, it's here to stay, and it's gonna get a lot worse. There are too many pressures on the US and in the world in general for it to abate. Democratic principles are one of the things people willingly sacrifice when they're scared and when scarcity starts coming. But it's still interesting to me to see which people give up those ideals and why. Well you're probably right but I hope your wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 19 minutes ago, Kalbear said: It doesn't justify any action specifically, but hopefully you can at least understand the anger a lot of folks had. I think from his blurb there this guy was also feeling that anger. Thank you for acknowledging it doesn’t justify murder… or mass murder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 11 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: Thank you for acknowledging it doesn’t justify murder… or mass murder. Sure thing. Though apparently he should have done that, because that would have accomplished a lot more? It's very confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 Just now, Kalbear said: Sure thing. Though apparently he should have done that, because that would have accomplished a lot more? It's very confusing. He should have acknowledged murder is wrong or he should have murdered people? The latter sounds horrific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Meanwhile McConnell is going to step down as the Senate GOP leader in November: https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/nation/mcconnell-will-step-down-as-the-senate-republican-leader-in-november-after-a-record-run-in-the-job/ Not sure who will take over, but it will almost certainly be someone very Trumpy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Just now, Ser Scot A Ellison said: He should have acknowledged murder is wrong or he should have murdered people? The latter sounds horrific. No, per people's complaints that what he did accomplished nothing he should have gone out and killed a bunch of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Kalbear said: No, per people's complaints that what he did accomplished nothing he should have gone out and killed a bunch of people. I have never said that. While a public suicide is violent it isn’t violence against others. Edited February 28 by Ser Scot A Ellison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry of the Lawn Posted February 28 Share Posted February 28 Time is a flat circle. JGP and Kyoshi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted February 28 Author Share Posted February 28 22 minutes ago, Larry of the Lawn said: Time is a flat circle. Somebody get Rust a lone star and a nicotine patch. Martell Spy and LongRider 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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