Jace, Extat Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 That... doesn't make sense to me. But I'm an armchair extat who sees no downsides to the conflict as-is, so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 You don't need to agree with the logic to accept it's motivated by the same concern in both cases though, that's still consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 16 minutes ago, karaddin said: You don't need to agree with the logic to accept it's motivated by the same concern in both cases though, that's still consistent. I suppose. It was probably uncharitable, but I got the impression that for the sake of newly-exposited appreciation for radicalism he was willing to advocate a risk of all lives for the sake of saving some lives. But again, that's probably a negative interpretation of the position- I am not above such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Hate to be this voice but I wont let that stop me. Its frustrating that we dont have special-ops capability capable of taking out the head of the Kremlin snake. Again not pleased to be sounding like Pat Robinson but morally im more comfortable with the assinations of 20 or 30 of the top Russian war mongerers than watching this war of attrition between helpless Ukraine and Russian soldiers who are pretty much following orders. Lets kill the order givers and line of sucession and save a million citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many-Faced Votary Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 7 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said: Hate to be this voice but I wont let that stop me. Its frustrating that we dont have special-ops capability capable of taking out the head of the Kremlin snake. What guarantee is there that whomever might replace Putin won't be worse? How would we accurately and comprehensively determine the "top warmongers" of Russia, and what number of extrajudicial murders would be enough to satisfy the condition that the next person will not be worse? Keep in mind that Putin has been facing attacks from the right for not going far enough in his war of aggression, and that a significant number of unaccountable oligarchs essentially own private armies in Russia that they purport to use for even worse goals. Most saliently, ultimately empty threats notwithstanding, Putin has given no indication of actually being willing to cause nuclear winter. Could you say the same of any of his potential successors? Crixus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Many-Faced Votary said: What guarantee is there that whomever might replace Putin won't be worse? How would we accurately and comprehensively determine the "top warmongers" of Russia, and what number of extrajudicial murders would be enough to satisfy the condition that the next person will not be worse? Keep in mind that Putin has been facing attacks from the right for not going far enough in his war of aggression, and that a significant number of unaccountable oligarchs essentially own private armies in Russia that they purport to use for even worse goals. Most saliently, ultimately empty threats notwithstanding, Putin has given no indication of actually being willing to cause nuclear winter. Could you say the same of any of his potential successors? I said nothing of merely replacing Putin. My hypothetical is about eliminating his entire line of sucession. At least 2-3 dozen deep of Kremlin hierarchy. Better them than a million innocents. Eta: The Oligarchs themselves are not difficult to identify as theyve been targeting them with sanctions currently and they haven't been particularly incognito. Edited March 2 by DireWolfSpirit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many-Faced Votary Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 minute ago, DireWolfSpirit said: I said nothing of merely replacing Putin. My hypothetical is about eliminating his entire line sucession. At least 2-3 dozen deep of Kremlin hierarchy. I addressed that: 5 minutes ago, Many-Faced Votary said: How would we accurately and comprehensively determine the "top warmongers" of Russia, and what number of extrajudicial murders would be enough to satisfy the condition that the next person will not be worse? 2 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said: Better them than a million innocents. True enough. But what if engaging in this sort of action results in the deaths of millions more innocents? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 (edited) Also I will note that this is exactly the strategy Putin uses himself in Russia and hes been pretty sucessful taking out his enemies. I think the World should adopt his own techniques on him and his support network. Edited March 2 by DireWolfSpirit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 6 minutes ago, Many-Faced Votary said: I addressed that: True enough. But what if engaging in this sort of action results in the deaths of millions more innocents? We can be sure that the ongoing conflict WILL in fact continue to cause untold death and destruction. So I propose improvement and not the status quo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Many-Faced Votary Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 7 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said: Also I will note that this is exactly the strategy Putin uses himself in Russia and hes been pretty sucessful taking out his enemies. I think the World should adopt his own techniques on him and his support network. You think the tools of a murderous, authoritarian dictator with no respect for international law or norms can be successfully used against him, with no problem in doing so or negative reflection on those who would? Unfortunately, there are no easy answers in life... A series of extra-judicial assassinations and hoping for the best afterwards in the power vacuum left in a nuclear power is not actually a viable approach, as facile as it might seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 42 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said: Also I will note that this is exactly the strategy Putin uses himself in Russia and hes been pretty sucessful taking out his enemies. I think the World should adopt his own techniques on him and his support network. 39 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said: We can be sure that the ongoing conflict WILL in fact continue to cause untold death and destruction. So I propose improvement and not the status quo. Although to quibble, the Russo-Ukraine war doesn't even hold a candle to the great conflicts of the previous century. But, although, to encourage... I don't see why an advantageous moment should be wasted. Projection of U.S. power should be a consideration for every leader, not just despots. That power should certainly include the... solving of a dictator's question: who will replace him? If not with one of our creatures then we should solve on down the line until we get an animal more ameniable to our ends. I like the way you think. Didn't know you had it in you. It takes two to nuclear tango out of Russia. That means we only need one. If I take your resolution to its conclusion. But, to quibble again, why? The status quo costs nothing more than has been spent already, weakens Russia by the hour. You propose to invite armageddon for the sake of lives unlost, the lives of many more remain untouched... Interesting. Radical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 There needn't be a power vaccum, Zelensky is right there, perfectly capable of becoming acting President until Russia experiences thier first free and fair elections minus the newly dead terrorists and oligarchs that currently run Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 32 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said: There needn't be a power vaccum, Zelensky is right there, perfectly capable of becoming acting President until Russia experiences thier first free and fair elections minus the newly dead terrorists and oligarchs that currently run Russia. Acting president of Russia? There might be a few issues w this… novel idea. Crixus, Many-Faced Votary and Ser Scot A Ellison 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, kissdbyfire said: Acting president of Russia? There might be a few issues w this… novel idea. I thought Russia and Ukraine were same thing? DireWolfSpirit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 1 hour ago, Derfel Cadarn said: I thought Russia and Ukraine were same thing? No. They are not. A True Kaniggit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derfel Cadarn Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 38 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: No. They are not. I know, Inwas being ironic. If Putin claims that, theb no reason why Zelenskyy coukdnt succeed him, by that logic Ser Scot A Ellison 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted March 2 Author Share Posted March 2 (edited) 4 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said: I know, Inwas being ironic. If Putin claims that, theb no reason why Zelenskyy coukdnt succeed him, by that logic And while Ukrainian, Zelenskyy is ethnically Russian and grew up speaking Russian. [edit for spelling thank you KBF] Edited March 2 by Ser Scot A Ellison Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 15 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said: And while Ukrainian, Zelenskyy is ethically Russian and grew up speaking Russian. And ethnically! Ser Scot A Ellison and LongRider 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 6 hours ago, Jace, Extat said: But, to quibble again, why? The status quo costs nothing more than has been spent already, weakens Russia by the hour. You propose to invite armageddon for the sake of lives unlost, the lives of many more remain untouched... Interesting. Radical. M I L K S O P Jace, Extat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted March 2 Share Posted March 2 Update from a friend and coworker of mine who's currently sitting in a detention center after fleeing Russia to avoid being drafted into the war and eventually trying to immigrate into the US. ICE suuuuuuuuuuucks. JGP, Many-Faced Votary, DireWolfSpirit and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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