How is Daenerys going to supply her army during the Invasion of Westeros?

[Craving Peaches]

This is a massive issue for her potential invasion and I don't really see how she can resolve it.

1. There is not enough food left in Westeros for Daenerys to supply her army via foraging/using reserves. It is pointed out numerous times that the food supplies remaining in Westeros are inadequate to feed everyone already there, so there is no way they can feed even more people coming later. This issue will be compounded by the size of the army Daenerys is aiming to bring. Not to mention all the difficulties that come with a regular winter. Then we have to factor in that it will probably be supernaturally cold, icy etc.

2. Daenerys cannot just ship food from Essos in as some people have suggested. First of all, there is a food shortage in all the territories she currently controls as well. Secondly, even is we assume she takes control of territories that have food/are growing food, she cannot just start taking food from there to feed a large army without depriving people living there of food, not to mention the logistics involved in shipping it over. And unless the army is near a port it will then need to be transported overland in the winter conditions etc.

3. How she is supposed to feed all the horses the Dothraki will be bringing? Where is the fodder going to come from?

So it looks like either Daenerys will have to bring a much smaller army, or her army will starve, or she'll have to make loads of other people starve so her army doesn't starve.

[Ser Arthurs Dawn]

Allying herself with the Tyrells would be her best option when it comes to food. But it'd be like a placing a band-aid on an infecting wound. 

[sifth]

Truth be told, I’m wondering how the people in the North haven’t run out of food yet. The was George describes the snows in the 5th book, makes it almost impossible to get new food.

[Craving Peaches]

9 minutes ago, Ser Arthurs Dawn said:

Allying herself with the Tyrells would be her best option when it comes to food. But it'd be like a placing a band-aid on an infecting wound. 

Yeah, there just isn't enough food to go around at this point.

9 minutes ago, sifth said:

Truth be told, I’m wondering how the people in the North haven’t run out of food yet. The was George describes the snows in the 5th book, makes it almost impossible to get new food.

Yes, it also seems like the vast majority of people there are going to starve. I don't see how Stannis is going to avoid starvation, for example. His troops are already starving and even if they take Winterfell that won't solve the issue because Theon notes food in Winterfell is running out. And as you point out, it seems to be impossible to transport food over with those conditions. So unless the battle absolutely decimates everyone to the point where there is like Stannis plus ten guys left...

[Aejohn the Conqueroo]

Well, the army will be fed before the local peasants. The peasants will have to eat those secret Targaryan banners they've been making for the last 17 years. 

We've seen cannibalism around the peripheries of this story. Winter seems like as appropriate a time as any for it to take the center stage.

[SeanF]

I don’t think it’s possible to bring more than 25-30,000, soldiers, a huge military achievement in itself.

[Craving Peaches]

15 minutes ago, SeanF said:

I don’t think it’s possible to bring more than 25-30,000, soldiers, a huge military achievement in itself.

They still need to be fed though. The Golden Company is only 10,000 and according to the sample chapter they're having to plunder food from peasants. I don't see how Daenerys can feed even that much, even if she decides to starve peasants so her army has more food, I don't think the supplies would last.

[Angel Eyes]

6 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

This is a massive issue for her potential invasion and I don't really see how she can resolve it.

1. There is not enough food left in Westeros for Daenerys to supply her army via foraging/using reserves. It is pointed out numerous times that the food supplies remaining in Westeros are inadequate to feed everyone already there, so there is no way they can feed even more people coming later. This issue will be compounded by the size of the army Daenerys is aiming to bring. Not to mention all the difficulties that come with a regular winter. Then we have to factor in that it will probably be supernaturally cold, icy etc.

2. Daenerys cannot just ship food from Essos in as some people have suggested. First of all, there is a food shortage in all the territories she currently controls as well. Secondly, even is we assume she takes control of territories that have food/are growing food, she cannot just start taking food from there to feed a large army without depriving people living there of food, not to mention the logistics involved in shipping it over. And unless the army is near a port it will then need to be transported overland in the winter conditions etc.

3. How she is supposed to feed all the horses the Dothraki will be bringing? Where is the fodder going to come from?

So it looks like either Daenerys will have to bring a much smaller army, or her army will starve, or she'll have to make loads of other people starve so her army doesn't starve.

3. Assuming the Dothraki will want to come.

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

Queen Daenerys Targaryen will arrive in Westeros with a professional army and a large fleet of ships.  They will be prepared ahead of time.  The supply chain is easy because the Narrow Sea is short in distance.  It won't be her army that will be starving for food.  It will be the Westerosi who will be boiling their leather boots for soup.  And the North will be eating each other before Daenerys arrives. The North will have resored to cannibalism by then.   Food will be easier to procure from Essos because of the size of the landmass.  

 

[Angel Eyes]

39 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Queen Daenerys Targaryen will arrive in Westeros with a professional army and a large fleet of ships.  They will be prepared ahead of time.  The supply chain is easy because the Narrow Sea is short in distance.  It won't be her army that will be starving for food.  It will be the Westerosi who will be boiling their leather boots for soup.  And the North will be eating each other before Daenerys arrives. The North will have resored to cannibalism by then.   Food will be easier to procure from Essos because of the size of the landmass.  

 

Right, a professional army which is dwindling by the day with a supply line that's had its pillar and stones cut out in more ways than one. It's also a supply line that Daenerys would be loath to reopen.  Prepared ahead of time? Daenerys hasn't gotten a foot in the Dothraki let alone the Free Cities and they don't really get a foot in Westeros either. Size of the landmass? Most of that is the Dothraki Sea and the Red Waste, and we already know how much trouble Daenerys had with finding sustenance for a small group.

Edited April 27 by Angel Eyes

[Mithras]

The Vale.

[SeanF]

6 hours ago, Craving Peaches said:

They still need to be fed though. The Golden Company is only 10,000 and according to the sample chapter they're having to plunder food from peasants. I don't see how Daenerys can feed even that much, even if she decides to starve peasants so her army has more food, I don't think the supplies would last.

I’d expect supplies that can be stored, to be transported by sea, most likely from Pentos.  So, salted meat, pickled fruits, honey, wine, and spirits.  The GC doesn’t have any kind of bureaucracy to handle supplies, so they would depend purely upon foraging.

Fresh items (ale, vegetables, bread, fodder for draught animals and cavalry horses), would have to be sourced locally.  That will be a burden on the locals, but presumably, she will be arriving with a substantial military treasury.  Paying for supplies would sweeten the pill, somewhat.

IMHO, logistical constraints make a successful invasion of Westeros impossible, without the backing of local allies.

Edited April 27 by SeanF

[Craving Peaches]

7 hours ago, Angel Eyes said:

3. Assuming the Dothraki will want to come.

True.

6 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Queen Daenerys Targaryen will arrive in Westeros with a professional army and a large fleet of ships.  They will be prepared ahead of time.  The supply chain is easy because the Narrow Sea is short in distance.  It won't be her army that will be starving for food.  It will be the Westerosi who will be boiling their leather boots for soup.  And the North will be eating each other before Daenerys arrives. The North will have resored to cannibalism by then.   Food will be easier to procure from Essos because of the size of the landmass.  

 

This just ignores most of the points raised in the OP.

[Angel Eyes]

14 hours ago, sifth said:

Truth be told, I’m wondering how the people in the North haven’t run out of food yet. The was George describes the snows in the 5th book, makes it almost impossible to get new food.

That's an interesting logistical question: how does a land where seasons can last years supply itself?

[sifth]

35 minutes ago, Angel Eyes said:

That's an interesting logistical question: how does a land where seasons can last years supply itself?

He mentions talk about glass gardens and people storing up food for preparation for winter, but it still seems pretty impossible, for anyone to survive in the North, given all of the wars the people of the North have been exposed to. If we are going to use anything resembling logic, White Harbor stands the best chance at surviving winter.

Also does winter ever happen in Essos? George talks about it from time to time, but for some daft reason, it always feels like summer in Essos.

[House Cambodia]

Remember she's still labouring under the delusion that the smallfolk of Westeros will be throwing roses at her army and opening up their larders to them. Barristan has done nothing to disabuse her of that. Tyrion will probably be the right person to give it to her straight and help organise logistics.

Snow should be falling in Kings Landing long before she gets there - it's looking like the entire continent is seeing it's last harvest for the foreseeable. I mean, she could secure food supplies for her troops from Essos, but how would that look to the starving peasants she thinks love her?

[SeanF]

35 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Remember she's still labouring under the delusion that the smallfolk of Westeros will be throwing roses at her army and opening up their larders to them. Barristan has done nothing to disabuse her of that. Tyrion will probably be the right person to give it to her straight and help organise logistics.

Snow should be falling in Kings Landing long before she gets there - it's looking like the entire continent is seeing its last harvest for the foreseeable. I mean, she could secure food supplies for her troops from Essos, but how would that look to the starving peasants she thinks love her?

Getting supplies from the Eastern cities should not be hard, because of their elites’ “glass jaw.”  Because 75-85% are chattels, and because wealth is concentrated in so few hands, they’re just one bad defeat away from disaster, and having their wealth confiscated.

[House Cambodia]

3 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Getting supplies from the Eastern cities should not be hard, because of their elites’ “glass jaw.”  Because 75-85% are chattels, and because wealth is concentrated in so few hands, they’re just one bad defeat away from disaster, and having their wealth confiscated.

Yeah, my point is she can procure the food from Essos for her troops, but how will that look to her supposed adoring yet starving smallfolk?

[Craving Peaches]

44 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Getting supplies from the Eastern cities should not be hard, because of their elites’ “glass jaw.”  Because 75-85% are chattels, and because wealth is concentrated in so few hands, they’re just one bad defeat away from disaster, and having their wealth confiscated.

40 minutes ago, House Cambodia said:

Yeah, my point is she can procure the food from Essos for her troops, but how will that look to her supposed adoring yet starving smallfolk?

Plus she'd be taken food from people already in Volantis. Even if Daenerys pays really generous prices for food, the overall supply is still going to be finite and from the looks of things it won't be enough to cover everyone. Offering to pay for food is fine when people can then get food elsewhere but if Daenerys is trying to pay for food when there just isn't more food then I don't see how it's sustainable. Someone is going to starve. Also a revolt in Volantis would have to involve a big re-structuring of the farming system since it needs to be orientated away from slave labour, which will take time and could reduce food production short term (assuming they can still grow stuff).

[House Cambodia]

7 minutes ago, Craving Peaches said:

Plus she'd be taken food from people already in Volantis. Even if Daenerys pays really generous prices for food, the overall supply is still going to be finite and from the looks of things it won't be enough to cover everyone. Offering to pay for food is fine when people can then get food elsewhere but if Daenerys is trying to pay for food when there just isn't more food then I don't see how it's sustainable. Someone is going to starve. Also a revolt in Volantis would have to involve a big re-structuring of the farming system since it needs to be orientated away from slave labour, which will take time and could reduce food production short term (assuming they can still grow stuff).

You're absolutely right.  As I say, if anyone's going to wake her up, it'll be Tyrion. She sees herself as saviour of the downtrodden smallfolk of Westeros and breaker of the wheel. Once she realises she'll be reigning over famine and corpses, she'll surely think again.