please help

[Guest Raidne]

Tobin, FTR, I don't think you're being foolish. You're acting like a human being. As TP, said, we're all removed from the situation so it's easy for us.

And I agree with Scot - try that, see what happens. Being available isn't in your best interest and apparently won't get him back anyway, so it seems like all signs point to throwing the ball in his court and seeing what happens, no matter what avenue you're trying to pursue.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Faelar,

If they were still together and struggling to make their relationship work I would agree with you that putting up walls doesn't help. As it is Tobin's husband has asked her to move out and changed the locks on their old house. Being open to him, at this point, doesn't make much sense in my opinion. She's been carrying a ton of water for this guy. Again, in my opinion, it's time to let him do some of the toting, and hopefully find out if he wants to do any toting at all.

That said, let's try not to turn this into a debate about particular advice. We should all be here for Tobin.

:grouphug:

[About Yea High]

Speaking as a man who not only went through a divorce but initiated it, I can honestly say the [i]changing of the locks[/i] is a bright, glowing, fiery red flag.

There's only one of three reasons he did it:

1. The neighborhood suddenly went to hell (you know that better than anyone of us).

2. It's already DONE with you in his mind and he fears you're crazy enough to come into the home and take shit that isn't yours, or worse, vandalize the place.

3. He doesn't want you to catch him with [i]her.[/i] Whoever [i]her [/i]is. 85% of the time there's a [i]her.[/i]

("Her" can even be different women on different nights - the point is, he wants privacy, not only from the rest of the world, but from you.)

I'm sorry you're going through this. We really suck, sometimes.

[Tobin]

[quote name='Chataya de Venoge' post='1606702' date='Dec 2 2008, 17.42']You talk about how he went to his family for Thanksgiving and you went to yours. [i]Like there was some hope that you would be together[/i]. To me, that says, denial, denial, denial. OF COURSE you are not going to spend Thanksgiving together; you're divorcing.[/quote]


If I go into things with the mindset that we're divorcing and that's that - then there will be no other options.
I'm not willing to admit defeat - because if there is one heartbeat of a chance and I walk away, I'll always wonder if that was the last inch that was needed.

Sure, I'm depressed and in denial.
I often wonder how much damage I'm doing to myself both emotionally and physically.

Staying away from him all this week has been really hard - even now, I can't wait for mom to go back home so I can go visit him.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Tobin,

[quote]Staying away from him all this week has been really hard - even now, I can't wait for mom to go back home so I can go visit him.[/quote]

Trust me I, and most of us I would imagine, understand and sympathize. This isn't about giving up. It's about letting him choose to come back, if in fact he is ever going to make that decision. You can't love him enough to convince him to come back if he's made up his mind that the marriage is over. Continuing to contact him lets him know you are waiting. He has to understand that you are going to move on too before he can decide, with finality, what he is going to do, if in fact he hasn't already decided.

There was a really silly quote in a Sean Connery movie, "Always leave the cage door open, so the bird can return." It's silly but appropo. Please, back off and let him choose to come back, if that is what he is going to do. If he isn't it is the start of the process you are going to have to go through anyway.

I, and others, know just how hard this is, one way or another you will get through it.

:grouphug:

[Minaku]

I'm really sorry to hear about what happened, Tobin. First things first - get a new lock for your door. Not just because your husband has a key, but because your mother's fears do have a foundation, and you just need a brand new lock, period. And then do not give him the key.

I know you want to be with him, but he's given you a very clear sign that he considers it over. I think it's best if you retreat to a place where you can come to terms with it your own way, without him. Outside of WoW, do you have any interests you want to pursue? Perhaps a childhood hobby that you can pick up again? Old friends you can reconnect with? Maybe adopt an animal?

Stay strong, and don't hurt yourself.

[Teri]

While in general I concur with the majority opinion here that all indications are that it is long past the time when "saving" this marriage is a realistic option, and that you will be better off focusing on building a life of your own, I do want to respond to this comment:

[quote name='mormont' post='1606031' date='Dec 2 2008, 08.47']Family members of his, you mean?

An unfortunate consequence of splitting up is that you probably won't see those people again, or not much. You might as well get used to that.[/quote]

I've never been married, but I had a boyfriend (Avron) that I was with for ten years (from age 22 through 32), and he left me (in 1986) when our daughter Tiffany was one year old, so for all intents and purposes it was pretty much the same as getting divorced.

Yet for the past 22 years I have continued to celebrate every Passover and Hannukah with his family, and many birthdays and other celebrations (sometimes even when Tiffany has other plans, so it is not just a matter of attending in my role as her mother), and they come to nearly all my parties too.

Now that I have a new boyfriend (of six months), he (David) comes with me to my ex's family events. For example, we both went to the nursing home where Avron's mother and uncle live for a Labor Day barbecue this fall. And we are both going to Avron and his wife Shirley's home for a Hannukah party on Dec 21.

So it is possible to transition from being a couple to being a very close family friend. With the way you've described his parents, it doesn't sound like they are too keen on that idea. But that doesn't mean that you need lose contact with other members of his family that you are closer to.

[Tears of Lys]

Regarding changing the locks:

[quote name='Eponine' post='1606535' date='Dec 2 2008, 16.22'][i]He said that his parents wanted him to, but he would just make them believe that he did it.[/i]

This says so much. If he was his own person, a husband to you instead of the tool of his parents, he would have told his parents that they had to respect his wishes about his own house.[/quote]

Sounds like he needs to grow up a LOT. What normal, healthy adult male is so influenced by what mommy and daddy want?[b] [/b]It also sounds like he's being led around by the ring in the nose called [b][i]money - [/i][/b]that of his parents, IIRC - which is something I've seen happen a lot, and it's not attractive.

How much do you really want this guy? Enough to completely debase yourself in some vain hope he'll return to you? Love only really exists if it's reciprocated. One-way love is not love at all, but more like fixation. It's not [i]reasonable[/i] to continue to love when confronted again and again by rejection.

Tobin, you WILL get over this, but you've got to toughen up and face the facts.
Love YOURSELF first.

[mashiara]

[quote name='Tobin' post='1606517' date='Dec 2 2008, 23.10']What went through my head the instant I saw the lock change:

[i]He didn't keep his word.
He doesn't trust me.
He doesn't want me walking in unannounced.
[/i]
All of those were pretty hard to stomach.
I can't even remember what he told me when I asked him about it.[/quote]


I'm sorry you have to deal with this, Tobin. As much as you don't want to believe it, I think even you realize in your heart that there really isn't any hope of getting together again. The sooner you admit it to yourself the sooner you can get on with your life. His changing the locks on you like that is the surest sign you can see that he's not who you think he is. Especially since he told you he wouldn't.

Do change the locks in your apartment. Do that not only because this way he won't have a key anymore, but also do it because your mom is right. It's only prudent to change the locks when you rent an apartment, you don't know who else might have a key to the old ones.

I know it is hard but you need to think of yourself first. Seeing him is not good for you, not if he treats you that way.

Hugs for you, stay strong.

[Watcher]

[quote name='Tobin' post='1606743' date='Dec 2 2008, 16.14']If I go into things with the mindset that we're divorcing and that's that - then there will be no other options.
I'm not willing to admit defeat - because if there is one heartbeat of a chance and I walk away, I'll always wonder if that was the last inch that was needed.

Sure, I'm depressed and in denial.
I often wonder how much damage I'm doing to myself both emotionally and physically.

Staying away from him all this week has been really hard - even now, I can't wait for mom to go back home so I can go visit him.[/quote]

Tobin my heart goes out to you, you are hurting in a big way. Think about what he is doing and why. Sometimes it may seem you are getting closer again but for all those small gains, he is going further away, which is what he wants. You cannot fix the relationship by yourself.

[mormont]

Faelar: it's not that your advice is not good advice. But you're giving it to the wrong person, and about a year too late.

[Seventh Pup]

[quote name='Ser Scot A Ellison' post='1606543' date='Dec 2 2008, 13.25']Tobin,

A suggestion. Stop calling him. He knows you care for him, you've shown that again and again. He needs to prove he cares for you. Let him make the next move. Talk to him if he calls but don't continue to attempt to contact him.

I [i]know[/i] how difficult this is to do, but, I sincerely believe you will be better served if you simply put the ball in his court.[/quote]

QFT

The absolute hardest thing to do when ending a relationship is to stop contacting the person. It is easy to say "I wont call him" it is a mind numbing, soul crushing thing to do. Every little thing that happens seems like the perfect excuse to call. Every time the phone rings you hope it is him, (and that makes you feel pathetic).

There where many, many, many times that I almost called my ex, some times it actually physically hurt not to call him. But the one thing that kept me from it was the word "Dignity" it echoed in my head. For me I drew strength from that word, though it also nearly drove me crazy. In fact for a while I felt like he was dead because I couldn't go to him even though I desperately wanted to.

I don't think I could have kept my "dignity" or my distance if he had actually initiated any contact with me. (He didn't. I think he had already emotionally left the relationship before we broke up.) About two months after our break up during a freak snow storm I finally broke down and called him. I wanted to make sure he was okay after all I was stranded by the side of the road because the car I was riding in was stuck in the snow, (and if I'm honest I felt like it was a good enough excuse so I wouldn't feel pathetic). He'd changed his number. I was crushed.

After this I exchanged a few emails with him, he started out being sweet, then turned into an insensitive ass; it hurt but it helped me move on. I think if I had staid in contact with him for those two months I would have made excuses for his actions. But having that space gave me a better perspective when I did talk to him again. It let me see his selfishness for what it was. When I met him for coffee four/five months after that I had even more perspective and could more easily see him for what he was.

What you need now is space. Lots of it. If you feel like calling him, leave you phone at home and go see a movie, go shopping, get a hair cut, buy a bra, take up running, or yoga, hang out with family or friends, go to the Library and log on to the board just don't be alone. I once staid at a Barnes and Noble for 3.5 hours and read 2 books because I knew that if I let myself go home where I was safe and a lone; I would call him.

Give yourself some space, it helps to give you perspective, and with time healing. :grouphug:

[Paddy]

[quote name='Tobin' post='1606743' date='Dec 2 2008, 23.14']If I go into things with the mindset that we're divorcing and that's that - then there will be no other options.
I'm not willing to admit defeat - because if there is one heartbeat of a chance and I walk away, I'll always wonder if that was the last inch that was needed.

Sure, I'm depressed and in denial.
I often wonder how much damage I'm doing to myself both emotionally and physically.

Staying away from him all this week has been really hard - even now, I can't wait for mom to go back home so I can go visit him.[/quote]
Tobin,
Chataya's advice about this was to see a counselor.
Going to see a counselor is not admitting defeat. If there is a heartbeat of chance, the counselor will help you to see that.

But if there [b]isn't[/b] a heartbeat of a chance (and honestly, your husband's behaviour, as described by you is screaming this; his behaviour seems classic non-confrontationalist), then you are in denial and a conselor will help you to see this and get through it.

Apart from this, my immediate advice would be to bring it up with him. Directly.
And most importantly, ask him - and ask him straight and directly - if there is a chance of you getting back together.
Because [i]from your description here[/i] he has decided that there's no way back.

Good luck, Tobin.

[mormont]

I thoroughly endorse 7th's comments about space. If there's a chance of reconciliation, if there are feelings remaining that are strong enough to rebuild the relationship on, then a few days or a week with no contact will strengthen that, not weaken it. It'll make his feelings clearer - and your own. It'll give you a chance to see whether you're chasing something that's gone, or something that still exists.

Take a week off from the whole thing, and see where you go from there.

[Tobin]

7th has the right of it.


I did ask him if he thought there was any chance of getting together again - of things getting better and us being happy.

He said he didn't know.

He said that he wanted me to be the way I was when we first got together - when I had more confidence, was more independent, etc.

Honestly, I agree with him - the creature I became over the years made us both miserable.
[i]I[/i] want to be the old me again - not just for him, but for me.
I don't want to be unhappy and scared anymore.


For the record - he did ask me if I wanted to stay.
Of course, it was while we were driving the last load of furniture to my new apartment, so I don't think he had much risk in it.



I chalk a lot of what I'm feeling up to being withdrawls - having him been such a big part of my existence for almost 8 years makes it tough to go cold-turkey.

All morning I've been staring at an IM panel to him, but haven't sent him a message.
It's almost a physical need.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Tobin,

Stay strong, don't do it. Post here, play a game, knit, write a journal about how you feel, call friends. Please do not initiate contact with him.

We're all with you.

[HT Reddy]

I couldn't possibly give advice, but :grouphug: , Tobin.

[Seventh Pup]

[quote name='Tobin' post='1607517' date='Dec 3 2008, 07.57']I chalk a lot of what I'm feeling up to being withdrawls - having him been such a big part of my existence for almost 8 years makes it tough to go cold-turkey.

All morning I've been staring at an IM panel to him, but haven't sent him a message.
It's almost a physical need.[/quote]

What helped me is that I when we broke up had a time period of three months where I wouldn't contact him. After that I thought I would see if a friendship was viable. Knowing that I had an end to the isolation helped. Though I still felt the loss of him very keenly. That I wasn't staring at forever made it bearable.

Tobin I suggest you give your self a similar time period. Make a pact with yourself (or if it helps with a friend, and hey we are all here for you) that you won't contact him for 3 months, or until the end of your lease. Or until you have to sign papers or do something else related to the divorce. Don't say a week, or even a month, that is simply not enough time.

If you do contact him do it because you want to see if friendship is an option. If you can't do that give yourself another month. Or don't contact him until you've started dating again. Seriously Tobin I know it hurts, (my break up humbled me in ways I didn’t know I could be humbled). Nothing but time and space can make better. There is a line from one of my favorite songs by The Postal Service that goes "Your heart won't heal right if you keep tearing out the sutures". God damn but that line is so true.

Also don’t worry about getting back to the old you. Right now you have had your whole world turned upside down. The floor has been cut out from beneath you, and you have to watch the whole future you thought you’d have disappear before your eyes. Not to mention being knifed in the heart by the person you love most in the world. Of course you are going to be depressed right now. That depression is going to color a lot of things. Including how you see yourself, and how you view your actions over the last part of your relationship. Don’t be hard on yourself right now.

Try to be easy on yourself, in fact try to pamper yourself as much as possible. During my break up I took a Phlebotomy class, (yeah it’s weird but it helped!) I changed my hair, I bought myself some new clothes. All of these things helped because they helped distract me, and allow me some control over the new person I was becoming; because I couldn’t be the same person I was with him. He was gone, we where gone.

One of my friends that just got out of a 7 year relationship dealt with it in part by buying a Scooter. (And changing her hair, for some reason it can be therapeutic for some people). She loves riding it, and it has help define the single her.

I am not telling you to learn how to stab people or ride a Vespa; but find something that you have or had some interest in. Something that will take you requires attention, and do it. Because right now your mind needs all the breaks it can get. :)

Oh and let us know when you get that tattoo. :D :grouphug:

[Eponine]

[quote name='Seventh Pup' post='1607614' date='Dec 3 2008, 12.08']If you do contact him do it because you want to see if friendship is an option.[/quote]

No offense, because I think Seventh Pup's advice is otherwise good, but I don't feel this is a good idea. Friendship may be an option in the future when many of these grieving feelings have passed, but right now it would probably be opening up a door to allowing yourself to be hurt more or taken advantage of. I think that if there's any steps toward possibly saving the relationship that you feel you must take, that would be the only reason to contact him, and if there are no more such steps, not to contact him at all, but not to contact him in hopes of being friends.

I feel that he's given clear indication that he's through with the relationship, but since you will not be satisfied until you've tried every avenue of reconciliation, I suggest that you turn your hopeful questions (do you think there's a chance of rebuilding our relationship?) into very concrete statements of what you want and need, where "I don't know" isn't an answer. For example, saying that you feel that counseling is important to you, you would like to call on Monday to schedule an appointment for both of you to see a counselor, and is he willing to do that.

[Minaku]

You have all of us on the board to talk to. I'll send you my IM, and you can IM me instead!

Either that, or give yourself a new IM, tell all of us what it is, and be bombarded with IMs. That's always nice.

I agree on the haircut thing. Having your hair cut is very freeing. Now is a good time to go out there to a good salon, spend the money, and get the crazy haircut you've always wanted. And don't forget the dramatic eye makeup.