please help

[Ealasaid]

Tobin, dear.

I don't know you. But you are sounding awfully fragile.

I have been there, went on and married a wonderful person after. There is life beyond.

But I cannot stress this enough GET A LAWYER. This man sounds manipulative. And whatever mixed messages he may be giving off, everything you have quoted him on sounds like the relationship is over for him. Please, go see a good divorce attorney. You won't regret it.

[Seventh Pup]

Tobin how you doing?

[Faelar006]

[quote name='Chataya de Venoge' post='1570876' date='Oct 28 2008, 18.53'][b]Scot [/b]- your situation is one in a million. My experience on this Board has been that everyone else who has had the "D" word thrown at them has ended up single after a few months.[/quote]

Make that two in a million. My wife actually filed papers a year ago last month. She actually went so far as to sign them in March (our state mandates a 90 day waiting period when children are involved) and we were only waiting on me to receive my copies to sign for our divorce to be finalized.

She ended up never sending in the paperwork, invited me back home, and we requested for the petition to be put on hold. It was dismissed just last month.

Tobin,

I don't know you or your husband from Adam and the same is most likely true of most of the people giving you advice in this thread. There is something about divorce that makes people think the situation they experienced when going through their divorce is ubiquitous in all divorces, so they give advice that was applicable in their situation, but may not be applicable in yours.

Only you really know whether it is okay to give your husband a key to your new apartment, etc. That has to be a decision you make that no one else can make for you. Reconciliation was possible in the case of my wife and me, but that was because of the circumstances surrounding our divorce proceedings, so it may or may not be possible in your case. Don't listen to anyone, however, who says there is a hard line for everyone that, once it is crossed, means reconciliation is impossible. There is, however, a hard line in your particular relationship and you and he have to determine if it has been crossed.

That being said, get a lawyer. Do not worry that the divorce will become overly contentious if lawyers are involved because your lawyer works for you. That means your lawyer gives you advice and then allows you to make the decision. For example, I thought my lawyer was going to have a stroke when I told her that I wanted to agree to everything my wife brought up in mediation, including paying her legal fees and paying extended spousal support. But, my lawyer did what I told her to.

Good luck and I hope things work out for you, no matter what happens.

Faelar

[Tobin]

It's been up and down since I was here last.

Halloween was really tough - seeing TrTreaters hammered home what we could have had. He took it badly.
We were supposed to go out to dinner that night - but left almost 3hrs late because we were talking.
It didn't go too well - I pissed him off with a remark that I hadn't thought we were mature enough for children. He was still upset about it the next morning, I don't think he slept at all.

Saturday (our 5yr anniversary) we both stayed clear of each other until late - he went with his parents to a festival and I ran around looking for last minute apartment items with my sister.
I got home about 1030 and he was outside with a Clove (it's almost been 8 years since he smoked). (Side Note: regular cigarettes and cigars make me gag, but Cloves are the sexiest things I've ever seen/smelled. :mellow: )
It started cordially, but went bad quickly. He was angry enough that if he had been the kind of man who hit women I'd have probably been on the ground.
I stood firm though, calm for the most part until the phrase "meal ticket" popped out in his triad. Then it was my turn to be up in his face more pissed than he had probably ever seen me.

I have never [i]ever[/i] seen or thought of him as a "meal ticket" or "cash cow". I didn't know or cared who his parents were when I met him - didn't give a damn that they routinely took trips around the world and had more money than my parents ever had in their entire working lifetimes - I [i]still[/i] don't give a shit about them.
[i]He[/i] is all I cared about.
In some ways I think that I confused his parents - I am the farthest thing from a trophy wife imaginable. His parents are from a social level where at a function I was actually asked: "Do you work outside the home?"
I'm the youngest of eight kids, so while growing up things were tight a lot. Still, I don't ever remember thinking that I was poor. We were raised with the ethic that you worked for what you wanted, that happiness didn't depend on sparkly bits or new cars, and that friends were people you could count on as much as they could depend on you.
Heika liked that about me - we were friends with common interests before we fell in love.
He apologized to me Sunday morning, saying that he shouldn't have said those things.
We talked a while and even started joking around - I confused the hell out of my sister when I answered the phone laughing.

He left the house so my sister and I could get some packing done without him being in the way and on my mind. We got just over half of my stuff boxed up, I have to finish the upstairs before Friday.

I'm going today at lunch to sign my lease, get the power turned on and meet a lawyer for a consultation. During the spat Saturday night - he let slip that his parents had consulted a lawyer to see if I had grounds to take the house.
I told him this morning that I was going for a consultation - he asked me why. I told him that I wanted to know what to expect - what my rights were and what I would have to do.
He reminded me that as soon as a laywer is officially hired, deals are off.
As I would forget that.

I still don't want to do this - but it's the only way through.

I should be fully moved in by Saturday, but will take a while to unpack.
He said his parents wanted a hard date of when I'd be out - he said they haven't specifically come out and said they want him to change the locks, but I'm sure they've thought about it.

It really stings: the idea that after Sunday I won't be able to see him outside of random and divorce encounters.

I asked him - if we had had these conversations 6months ago, would it have changed things.

He said probably.

That's what makes me upset the most - that little 'fixes' and conversations could have prevented all of this.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Tobin,

Good grief. From what I'm reading he's attempting to bully you about the lawyer. His parents are attempting to get him to bully you about the lawyer. They know you are the party who wants it to work out and they are attempting to use that to their advantage. I'm very glad you are discussing representation.

I hope it goes as painlessly as possible whatever the outcome is.

[MinDonner]

Oh great, so his parents are allowed to hire a lawyer and you're not? If the deal was "no lawyers or I'll get my parents involved", he's already broken his side of the argument anyway; who knows what other arrangements he'll decide not to stick to?

I'm so glad you've decided to get a consultation. I know it's impossible for us outsiders to appreciate what's gone into your relationship, but honestly, he sounds like an arsehole, and you're well rid of him.

Stay strong. :)

[Nichole]

Hang in there Tobin. :grouphug:

I'm glad you are talking to lawyer. It sounds to me that his parents are being dicks and a lawyer may come in handy for you.

And why do you say you are far from a trophy wife? You sound like a wonderful person that any one should feel lucky to be in relationship with.

[mashiara]

Tobin, I'm glad you're getting a consulation. I can't believe his parents are the ones who talked to a lawyer already, after he insisted no lawyers get involved! You need to make sure you are represented too, it sounds as if he and his parents are trying to trick you.

Good luck with the move. I'm sorry things are so ugly for you right now. Be strong. :grouphug:

[Guest Raidne]

Tobin, Jesus, from how it's phrased here, he's [i]threatening[/i] you about the lawyer thing. That is so many kinds of wrong. It's playing so dirty.

You're not hiring a lawyer who's going to take a percentage of what you get in the divorce settlement, and is thereby motivated to play as dirty as possible. You're paying someone by the hour for their time to impartially look at your situation.

And you know, there's really no reason for you to tell him that you've talked to a lawyer. I guess I wouldn't, in your situation.

And I can't believe he would tell you it could have been fixed if it would have been addressed 6 months ago. Wow, that's got to make it so much harder to deal with. It's a pretty selfish thing to say. Hang in there as best you can.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

Tobin :grouphug: - I'm sending positive thoughts your way. After some of the stuff you said, I'm glad that you are going for a consult with a lawyer (espcially if he, and his family, are being advised). You should know what your rights are (and never get in a situation where you are alone on the phone or in a meeting with him and his lawyer). Remember that when people who love(d) each other are angry at each other, they say the most hurtful things they can possible think of. He knows what buttons to push on you and vice versa. Keep it in mind, and don't let it get to you.

[davos]

[quote]I asked him - if we had had these conversations 6months ago, would it have changed things.

He said probably.

That's what makes me upset the most - that little 'fixes' and conversations could have prevented all of this.[/quote]

I'm an outside observer so its hard to say but this smells strongly of pure bullshit. He's trying to hurt you and manipulate your emotions to make you more vulnerable and willing to give in to his demands. Giving you the impression that if you had taken certain actions so very recently might have salvaged the marriage just does not make sense if you consider it rationally. He's trying to hang you with the guilt or make himself feel like he's not responsible. Either way its hurtful to you as well as highly dishonest on his part. Its hard but don't buy into it. In all honesty I would not put much stock in anything he says right now about the marriage and what in his opinion went wrong. He's trying to justify the split and he's trying to come out of this feeling as good as he can about himself as well as in the best position he can be in financially. Don't let him do that to you. Be strong and when dealing with him more than a bit stoic. Its hard but its the best thing for you.

[TerraPrime]

That part where he let slip that his parents had met with lawyers is an alarm by itself, but add to that the fact that he basically called you a gold-digger, which to me is his parents talking through him, it's clear that his parents are in this break-up as much as you and he are.

You're absolutely right that he's not mature enough to have kids. Adults who still are tied to their parents' apron strings (or bank accounts) should not be having kids of their own.

Stay strong, get the consultation, and keep forging ahead.

*hugs*

[potsherds]

[quote name='TerraPrime' post='1577089' date='Nov 4 2008, 18.56']That part where he let slip that his parents had met with lawyers is an alarm by itself, but add to that the fact that he basically called you a gold-digger, which to me is his parents talking through him, it's clear that his parents are in this break-up as much as you and he are.

You're absolutely right that he's not mature enough to have kids. Adults who still are tied to their parents' apron strings (or bank accounts) should not be having kids of their own.

Stay strong, get the consultation, and keep forging ahead.

*hugs*[/quote]
I completely agree with this. Totally.

Good for you on getting the consultation, and again, you ought to get a lawyer. :grouphug:

[Xray the Enforcer]

[quote name='TerraPrime' post='1577089' date='Nov 4 2008, 13.56']That part where he let slip that his parents had met with lawyers is an alarm by itself, but add to that the fact that he basically called you a gold-digger, which to me is his parents talking through him, it's clear that his parents are in this break-up as much as you and he are.

You're absolutely right that he's not mature enough to have kids. Adults who still are tied to their parents' apron strings (or bank accounts) should not be having kids of their own.

Stay strong, get the consultation, and keep forging ahead.

*hugs*[/quote]

Totally agreed. Oh my gods, yes. Much love and courage to you, Tobin.

[zollo]

Does the man actually make any decisions of his own or is he his parents puppet? The whole "let's protect the family wealth" strategy is pretty nauseating. He seems confused about what him spilling the beans has landed him in, at least on an emotional level, but the amount of times you have now paraphrased him talking about money and lawyers...., well, that just goes to show where his true allegiance lies. Ergo: the sooner you move into your own place, the better.

Furthermore, "six months ago it would have been repairable"...fuck that for a laugh. Six months? What does that even mean? How about 5 months? Or 4? 7, anyone? Although not necessarily a conscious sham, as both of you are emotionally fragile and liable to think / act along similar lines, it is still a sham: straight up emotional blackmail . Regardless, it is all utterly moot now not to mention extremely unfair to you as [b]you [/b]seem to be getting the blame for it.

Move as quickly as you can and stay strong in the meantime, do not agree to anything out of misplaced feelings of love, his apparent redeeming features or hinted at possibilities for a future together.

On a more important note, what the hell is a Clove?! :P

[TerraPrime]

Don't listen to the America-hating hippie. Wiki on [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kretek"]clove cigarettes[/url].

[Rhom]

Consultation = good move.

[naz]

Faelar made what I thought was a very good post upthread. Like he said, ultimately you're the only one that knows the exact situation and knows the best course of action, but based on odds and experience, it helps to know what others have gone through and allow it to inform your decisions. It does seem that your husband is really being manipulated or at least guided by his parents and at the very least, you should rely on similar family members to help you choose a course, and it seems like that's already happening.

Personally, I think it's good that you're consulting with a lawyer, but I get the feeling that you're feeling a little lost in this whole process, and justifiably so. While Faelar is right in that you know your situation best, sometimes you aren't in the best position to be making these decisions. It has to be a mix of objectivity (lawyers, mediators) and subjectivity (family that knows your background). I suggest you continue to rely on your sister as much as she's willing to help and she should maybe even be with you when you see the lawyer so that he or she has a better overview of what's happening.

Hope things turn out ok.

[Trebla]

[quote name='Tobin' post='1576831' date='Nov 4 2008, 10.12']It's been up and down since I was here last.

Halloween was really tough - seeing TrTreaters hammered home what we could have had. He took it badly.
We were supposed to go out to dinner that night - but left almost 3hrs late because we were talking.
It didn't go too well - I pissed him off with a remark that I hadn't thought we were mature enough for children. He was still upset about it the next morning, I don't think he slept at all.

Saturday (our 5yr anniversary) we both stayed clear of each other until late - he went with his parents to a festival and I ran around looking for last minute apartment items with my sister.
I got home about 1030 and he was outside with a Clove (it's almost been 8 years since he smoked). (Side Note: regular cigarettes and cigars make me gag, but Cloves are the sexiest things I've ever seen/smelled. :mellow: )
It started cordially, but went bad quickly. He was angry enough that if he had been the kind of man who hit women I'd have probably been on the ground.
I stood firm though, calm for the most part until the phrase "meal ticket" popped out in his triad. Then it was my turn to be up in his face more pissed than he had probably ever seen me.

I have never [i]ever[/i] seen or thought of him as a "meal ticket" or "cash cow". I didn't know or cared who his parents were when I met him - didn't give a damn that they routinely took trips around the world and had more money than my parents ever had in their entire working lifetimes - I [i]still[/i] don't give a shit about them.
[i]He[/i] is all I cared about.
In some ways I think that I confused his parents - I am the farthest thing from a trophy wife imaginable. His parents are from a social level where at a function I was actually asked: "Do you work outside the home?"
I'm the youngest of eight kids, so while growing up things were tight a lot. Still, I don't ever remember thinking that I was poor. We were raised with the ethic that you worked for what you wanted, that happiness didn't depend on sparkly bits or new cars, and that friends were people you could count on as much as they could depend on you.
Heika liked that about me - we were friends with common interests before we fell in love.
He apologized to me Sunday morning, saying that he shouldn't have said those things.
We talked a while and even started joking around - I confused the hell out of my sister when I answered the phone laughing.

He left the house so my sister and I could get some packing done without him being in the way and on my mind. We got just over half of my stuff boxed up, I have to finish the upstairs before Friday.

I'm going today at lunch to sign my lease, get the power turned on and meet a lawyer for a consultation. During the spat Saturday night - he let slip that his parents had consulted a lawyer to see if I had grounds to take the house.
I told him this morning that I was going for a consultation - he asked me why. I told him that I wanted to know what to expect - what my rights were and what I would have to do.
He reminded me that as soon as a laywer is officially hired, deals are off.
As I would forget that.

I still don't want to do this - but it's the only way through.

I should be fully moved in by Saturday, but will take a while to unpack.
He said his parents wanted a hard date of when I'd be out - he said they haven't specifically come out and said they want him to change the locks, but I'm sure they've thought about it.

It really stings: the idea that after Sunday I won't be able to see him outside of random and divorce encounters.

I asked him - if we had had these conversations 6months ago, would it have changed things.

He said probably.

That's what makes me upset the most - that little 'fixes' and conversations could have prevented all of this.[/quote]

yep, yep yep...as usually the case when parents get involved it comes down to money money money.

He is attempting to bully you, no question. They see you as some kind of financial threat against THEM as well. Trust me. People can get really nutty in these types of things.

But really, don't play chicken with him. Do what is in YOUR best interest. And hon, STOP TELLING HIM (and by course THEM) everything. I know it's hard because I used to do the same thing. You feel like you still have a connection with the person you married. But any little comment is going to be turned around, turned into a conspiracy and cause more and more grief.

I took a major timeout from my ex-wife during the summer of 2004 when we had split up. Things had gotten ugly, we were fighting, both sets of parents got involved which escalated to my ex, my mom, and her mom getting into a screaming match outside the home as my mom was picking up my 1 yr old daughter. I said enoughh was enough and shut off all contact with her unless at court. All messages were made through voice mail, through parents, through notes, etc. And ya know what...it actually pissed her off because I think she loss a sense of control. I got endless angry notes. But better that than ugly confrontations on the phone or worse in person.

and an FYI...we now share joint custody of our 5 year old and get along as well as divorced people can. Took a lot of time abd patience but it can happen in the end.

[Watcher]

[quote name='Tobin' post='1576831' date='Nov 4 2008, 09.12']I asked him - if we had had these conversations 6months ago, would it have changed things.

He said probably.

That's what makes me upset the most - that little 'fixes' and conversations could have prevented all of this.[/quote]

What The Fuck! The marriage could've been saved if you had these conversations 6 months ago? Then Why the Fuck Didn't he start these talks 6 months ago? He is the one that asked for a divorce, not you. You should be upset about this.

I am glad you are getting/got a consultation. This is a good move, but remember that person works for you.