please help

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

[quote name='Geddon' post='1564879' date='Oct 23 2008, 10.29']I don't think people work that way. The fact that chance and biology have conspired against you will in no way lessen the desire or need for a child. These days when one's desires and needs are not being met within a marriage it leads to divorce more often and not, and where divorce is not an option it usually leads to unhappiness, resentment and bitterness in the relationship.

As far as marriage being a lifetime commitment I don't think that is universally true these days. For many people marriage is a commitment that lasts only as long as both parties are getting what they need from the arrangement.[/quote]

But there are so many options to having kids. If they have only been trying 1 year, that is NOTHING. There are fertility drugs, things to do to increase sperm count, IUV, so many others. And if all that fails, there is adoption. The kids thing in this case, sounds like it is just an excuse.

[Rhom]

[quote name='Lany Cassandra' post='1564888' date='Oct 23 2008, 10.39']But there are so many options to having kids. If they have only been trying 1 year, that is NOTHING.[/quote]

From a medical standpoint... you aren't even considered to be having fertility problems [i]until[/i] you've been trying for a year unsuccessfully.

[Geddon]

[quote name='Lany Cassandra' post='1564888' date='Oct 23 2008, 15.39']But there are so many options to having kids. If they have only been trying 1 year, that is NOTHING. There are fertility drugs, things to do to increase sperm count, IUV, so many others. And if all that fails, there is adoption. The kids thing in this case, sounds like it is just an excuse.[/quote]

I'd just like to say again I'm not commenting on Tobin's case specifically, I don't know any details about her relationship. I was just making some general points in response to Potsherds and Ser Scot's posts.

From what you and other people have said it does sound like Tobin's husband has given up before exhausting all the options as regards having a child. Perhaps he simply doesn't realise how difficult the process can be.

[Rubies & Jade]

[quote name='Lany Cassandra' post='1564888' date='Oct 23 2008, 09.39']But there are so many options to having kids. If they have only been trying 1 year, that is NOTHING. There are fertility drugs, things to do to increase sperm count, IUV, so many others. And if all that fails, there is adoption. The kids thing in this case, sounds like it is just an excuse.[/quote]

It is an excuse. and its a terrible thing to hold over someone. The really sad part is that sometimes, all those options won't work, and then it comes down to being either committed to someone regardless or leaving someone in selfishness. I know people who can't conceive and have nothing wrong with them. Fertility treatments don't always work, and often don't. I have a friend who was told here in NY that they couldn't adopt unless she could remember ever address they lived in since they were 18 years old, something that couple couldn't do (they were in their 40's, moved often when they were in college and moved to a few states before settling in NY--they just couldn't remember them all).
I can't help but throwing all that out there--there are a lot of childless people who are childless not out of choice.

That all being said, for some guy to basically blame a woman for not getting preggers and leaving her is just terrible.

Tobin, I'm so sorry you're going through this. I hope you take all this good advice and get yourself a lawyer. Hang in there. :grouphug:

[TerraPrime]

[mod hat]

If there's interest in the fertility issue, let's start another thread. If Tobin is interested in that, she'll go read it. Let's keep this thread more focused on what support and/or advice we can offer. Thank you.


[/mod hat]

[Tobin]

Thank you everyone for your support in this.
Aside from my family and a few people at work - most of my real friends are shared with him and I don't want to make them have to choose between us by dumping on them.
Being able to vent here has helped me pull together somewhat and stay strong (well, for now).


Some clarifications:

Nov. 1 is our 5yr wedding anniversary.
We planned on waiting 2yrs for children - but didn't use contraceptives that much (pill makes me horribly sick) so pregnancy was always a possibility
I asked about adoption - he refused (he's adopted, so it was a combination of knowing how it is to be different and that by having his own blood child, it would be someone he could connect with)
He's 7yrs older than me (he will be 39 this year)
He has a psychology degree and played college football (he uses his size/appearance as a big meat-head to get people to underestimate him)

He has always wanted children - much more than I do. I didn't do anything to stop getting pregnant, but I suppose I also didn't go out of my way to encourage it.
Babies frighten me - once they get to about 3 or so, I'm better.

He feels that we essentially repeated the first year of marriage 5 times instead of moving toward goals like a larger house, children, etc.
He got upset that I seemed to be content with how things were and had no ambition to change. Mom tried to explain that I was my father's daughter, that it was a trait that I inherited with him.

I don't know - the situation could be solved in a number of ways.
Things would have been much better if H. had been more forceful about his feelings and needs 3 years ago, when I could have prevented it from getting this far.


I sent him an email yesterday explaining how I felt - his answer was pissy - but because of being able to vent here, I stayed calm.
I answered back with a mild reprimand and we haven't spoken since.

I haven't cried today, so it's a small victory.

I have two more apartments to look at today.

[MinDonner]

:grouphug:

Please, get a lawyer or at least some kind of disinterested third-party to help you through this. You seem to be blaming yourself far too much over this, and some clear-headed advice will really help to make sure your own interests are represented. Honestly, I can't see how this guy has any right to be angry with you; he should be grovelling and begging you not to take him to the cleaners, not getting pissy and making vague emotional-blackmail-like threats about how he thinks the divorce should go. I know it must be really hard right now, but that's even more reason to get professional advice.

[ztemhead]

next e mail you should tell him you're moving in with another dude. just mention it offhandedly, like, "Can I meet you at three instead of four because Jim is only going to be home for another hour." ;)

[Kelli Fury]

Tobin, I am absolutely [i]begging[/i] you, get a lawyer. A mediator he would have to agree on, but by no means does he have any say in whether you can get a lawyer or not. There is also pretty much no way that if you guys are going to be friends, that it will be right away. Look at his behavior. He is divorcing [i]you[/i], the whole situation was of his initiation, and he's trying to convince you lawyers would make things messy when he has had a shitty attitude with you and your family every single day you've been in this thread. Things are already messy, and unless you're just going to walk away with nothing (and please please don't), it's going to get messier. He threw a fit over a pay stub, ffs. I know you are hurting and you just want things to be a civil as possible- that is completely reasonable. But because of that, you aren't in a position emotionally to take care of yourself legally. You would also be avoiding all of these confrontations by having them go through professionals. That's not being mean, that's not taking him for everything he has, it's saving yourself a lot of heartache. My advice is to get into an apartment or your sister's house as soon as you can- tomorrow if possible. Don't do anything with the divorce until you live somewhere else- don't sign anything, don't discuss it with him. Then get your lawyer. Please, please, please, Tobin, do this for yourself. I know it's hard, I know it hurts, but somebody needs to be looking out for you.

[Rockroi]

Tobin:

I am a divorce attorney. Let me throw down some harsh rules for you.

0: You should speak to an attorney as soon as possible and get some information that responds to many of your questions. Then, and only then, should you consider NOT using an attorney. By-in-large, most people who want to avoid using attorneys have 1) no money AND no children or 2) want to avoid empowering their spouse by having them find an attorney who may (God forbid) help them.

1: If you have any significant property, you should see an attorney.

2: STOP TAKING ADVICE FROM YOU SPOUSE! Immediately. He is not in a position to explain what is best for you ONLY what he believes is best FOR HIM! I cannot stress this enough.

3: Stop thinking about “will we be friends later” and start thinking about how to manage your life NOW! You CANNOT control all the variables that go into long lasting friendships. So stop trying. Start thinking about you. You matter.

[quote]A divorce isn't the end of a relationship, I have learned that the relationship ends much earlier than that.[/quote]

QFFT!

4: How long was the marriage? The longer the marriage, the more chance you have at his extended assets (ie- his family’s).

[quote]I'm doing better - but I kinda don't want to go home tonight.
He may seem like a dick right now, but he can be really wonderful too.

Gods.
That sounded a bit too much like something a battered wife would say.[/quote]

Its called “enabling language” wherein you make excuses for his behavior, see it as normal, thus allow him to continue it and refusing to face it as abnormal. Which is okay for one important reason (sorry): Unlike a battered wife, your relationship is over. It ended months ago. Its time you start to climb out of this wreckage with YOU in tact. Not him. He can take his parents’ money as a life preserver and move on. You have to look out FOR YOU!

A good lawyer does that. This is why they want to avoid a lawyer. This is why if you get a good lawyer in 5 years your ex and his mamma will be saying how all lawyers are scum and bring up your lawyer who did great things for you.

[Rhom]

One thing that I think you may be missing here is that an attorney only does what you [i]ask[/i] them to do. I don't know where you got the idea that you lose all control. If you tell them to take him to the cleaners... that's what they'll do. Likewise, if you tell them you just want to be "fair"... that's what they'll shoot for. But at the very least you'll know your options and someone will be contractually obligated to be looking out for you.

[Eponine]

[quote name='Tobin' post='1564931' date='Oct 23 2008, 11.30']Thank you everyone for your support in this.Aside from my family and a few people at work - most of my real friends are shared with him and I don't want to make them have to choose between us by dumping on them.[/quote]

I'm really sorry that you're going through this.

What you said about shared friends may end up being one of the hardest things about the situation. When I got divorced, I kept my mouth shut and backed off so that mutual friends would not have to choose between us. My ex-husband didn't keep his mouth shut. I lost a lot of friends. The loneliness of losing my friends was even worse than the divorce.

I know this is a trite thing to say while you're in the middle of the situation, but now that I'm through it, those people weren't worth my time or energy. Sometime I still feel overwhelmingly sad at having lost them.

Definitely take care of your work and your divorce proceedings first- that may end up taking up most of your time for a while- but if you have any time, I think you should start now at making some new friendships. Maybe you'll be luckier than I was and your friends will be more supportive, but I think that spending some time with people who aren't a part of your old life will help you recover faster. I wish I'd started sooner. Don't look at it as having to develop instant close replacement friendships, because that won't happen overnight, but do look at it as letting your life branch out and become fuller.

[WhiteQueen]

So sorry to hear about it, Tobin. Seems like it is very painful for you. In my experience, mediators are more efficient than lawyers if you want to divorce AMIABLY. There is no friendship between ex-spouses after divorce attorneys are done with both of you. Also, mediators at times make people reconsider and save their marriage, if that is something you are interested in.
As for assets allocations, it is a tricky and unpleasant part, if there is no pre-nup and it seems like he has more means than you do, and therefore could afford a better attorney, you could end up with nothing, unfortunately. Also, splitting the assets is the end of ANY FRIENDSHIP as well. Just keep your head cool, think about yourself first (what is that that you want/need), and try to keep it emotions free. Best of luck, I hope things would get better. That's why I work, although my husband keeps telling me that I don't have to - if I am ever in this situation, I do not need anything from him, I could just spit in his face and leave on the spot, without any aggravation. If you need his financial support, go for it - it is his idea to get divorced - let him pay for it.

[zakalwe7]

So sorry to hear about this Tobin. I really hope that things work out good for you.

[Mackaxx]

Erm, in respect to the fertility stuff I'm not sure what the stats are elsewhere but here around 1/3 of the time its the fellas fault.

Anyway, I think its probably just an excuse, not a real reason. So baffle his bullshit with a bit of science next time it gets brought up.

Sad news and hope things improve in the future, the advice your getting here seems to be pretty good and worth taking on board. Seriously, get that lawyer organized if it's worth the money. At the very least get some advice in respect to that.

Also, give up the WoW. Waste of time. Maintaining a drug habit takes up less of your time, seriously.

[Crow's Eye]

Just to add my voice to the crowd - even if you do not get an attorney to act as your point man in the divorce, you should without a doubt consult with one at some point. Even if he/she hides in the background and just advises you, rather than being the person who deals with your husband or his counsel, it will be worth your time. Even if you decide not to get an attorney to consult or work through the divorce process, you should have an attorney review each and every document before you sign it.

Being an attorney myself (although not in family law), I know that I tend to draft contracts and other documents in favor of my client, and I've seen unrepresented parties sign into some truly bad deals - they just didn't understand what the contract really meant, even though they clearly thought they did. Hell, I [b]am[/b] an attorney and there is no way I would go through a divorce without at least consulting a divorce attorney. And remember - he may be saying "no attorneys", but that doesn't mean he (or his parents) aren't consulting with one behind the scenes. [b]If that's the case, and they know you don't have an attorney, look out, 'cause you're about to get royally screwed.[/b]

If cost is a concern, your local city or county bar association might have a pro bono divorce program, where local attorneys will volunteer to provide advice or even full representation at no charge (and based on your monetary situation, you would almost certainly qualify for any such program). It's true that allowing divorce attorneys to duke it out on your dime is the quickest way to ensure undying hatred between you and your ex, but that doesn't mean you can't talk to an attorney about protecting you and your rights and not let it get to that point.

Best of luck to you. You'll get through it. You said you wished he would have told you this years ago, but at least he's doing it now and not 10 years into the future.

[Inigima]

did you get a lawyer yet

[Mackaxx]

Perhaps someone in the guild can do it? Thonger245 is pretty good I hear, imposing thews too.

[Wade1066]

[quote name='danro' post='1564784' date='Oct 23 2008, 06.29']It's not just men.

And the only reason you're saying that is that your day job is to ride around in a tank and break stuff. That sounds like one major stress reliever to me.[/quote]

Heh :D

[Tears of Lys]

Get a recommendation on a divorce lawyer if possible. Someone who's worked with one can steer you in the right direction.

And Inigma's right - have you contacted one yet? :)

Oh, and make sure you know where all the important papers are - i.e., credit card statements, bank accounts, and make copies. The paycheck stub is vital too. Any attorney you speak with will want to know what the assets are.

KEEP YOUR OWN COPIES (my sister's attorney [i]lost[/i] some of her documents.)