The Brandon Sanderson Thread

[End of Disc One]

I think his prose has improved with nearly every book, even if Mistborn: The Final Empire is still his best book to date.

[Shryke]

I think his prose has improved with nearly every book, even if Mistborn: The Final Empire is still his best book to date.

Way of Kings was way worse in this regard. Just ... really quite terrible in many parts.

[Lord Rahvin]

Im a little surprised to hear quite a bit of negative feedback with respect to BS. I haven't read all his stuff, but I can base my opinion on what little I did... Obviously WoT, honestly I was just thankful for a conclusion, but all in all I think it was good. I thought Mistborn was great, one of those "cant put it down" types, blew thru at light speed. I was interested in starting WoK, there was a lot of hype about the next great epic fantasy??? For now it will have to wait, I'm neck deep in Malazan, book 4...

[AverageGuy]

Im a little surprised to hear quite a bit of negative feedback with respect to BS. I haven't read all his stuff, but I can base my opinion on what little I did... Obviously WoT, honestly I was just thankful for a conclusion, but all in all I think it was good. I thought Mistborn was great, one of those "cant put it down" types, blew thru at light speed. I was interested in starting WoK, there was a lot of hype about the next great epic fantasy??? For now it will have to wait, I'm neck deep in Malazan, book 4...

There's a lot of rough parts parts in Way of Kings, especially in the first half of the book. Heavy exposition-- you get a lot of information about the world at once in the first few chapters, which is alien enough to be soft SF (I actually have come to like the setting, but the introduction to it was a slog), and at least for me all that exposition made it hard to get into the book. Dialogue is inconsistent (a couple characters' witticisms come to mind). The setting is larger than his other works (barring his WOT books, if you count them, and The Gathering Storm was being written around the same time as Way of Kings). There are more viewpoint characters, which means more characters get fleshed out, and more attention is paid to the secondary characters than in Mistborn or Elantris. That said, while they're fleshed out, the characters don't necessarily seem much more complex than in Mistborn, at least not until some revelations about some of them at the end, and we won't really know how those come into play until book 2. I think we may see some good characterization in the next book. I don't except to see any "grimdark" characters, I fully expect Sanderson's stories to continue in the vein of heroic fantasy, but more complex heroes and sympathetic villains seem likely. Now, if you liked Mistborn, everything Sanderson does well he continues to do well-- unique setting, focused plotting, action, readability (barring the IMO clunky expository bits in the early part of the book), etc. Where I think Sanderson improves is in scale/complexity. As he has before, he tends to focus on small groups of people in a city/warcamp, but the fact that he has more than one location now combined with his use of interludes means the world feels bigger than his previous stories, and he manages to play these separate storylines off each other so that so that they're all heading to the same place without seeming to diminish that scale. Overall, I enjoyed the first book, though I'm aware of plenty of others on this board who did not. I am looking forward to the second one.

[Shryke]

Some of the prose and dialogue in WoK is truly awful. Clunky as hell and just bad. The parts with that anti-gravity guy running about are the worst, where everything he does has to stop for a lengthy explanation from the DM as he reads from the monster manual about this special attack. And he's done better work in the past. WoK was a big step back from Mistborn in this regard where the clunky prose only popped up occasionally and never as badly as it does in WoK.

The other major thing I'd say is that the fanciful setting hides a truly dull and cliched main plot for the majority of the major characters. Which is definitely sad since usually Sanderson can be counted on for something a bit more interesting to make the other issues less noticeable. Kaladin is a truly dull protagonist with a dull and predictable character arc.

It's Sanderson's try at generic epic fantasy. And writing not-generic epic fantasy was one of the reasons to overlook his flaws.

[Suttree]

Obviously WoT, honestly I was just thankful for a conclusion, but all in all I think it was good.

The problem most people have with his work in the WoT is that each of his books seemed to get progressively worse. That was especially disappointing in relation to AMoL as they changed his writing process and even pushed the release date to address all the issues that popped up with ToM.

[Mexal]

The problem most people have with his work in the WoT is that each of his books seemed to get progressively worse. That was especially disappointing in relation to AMoL as they changed his writing process and even pushed the release date to address all the issues that popped up with ToM.

So did Robert Jordan's.

I get the points being made against Sanderson but there are two things about him that work for me.

1. His books are quick reads mostly, even with the ever increasing page length. WOK had some areas that were a bit of a slog but upon re-read, I enjoyed it more, especially the more epic moments that appeal to me. Generic, predictable stories don't bother me too much as long as I find payoff from the execution, which I did with Kaladin (not so much many of the others though I can understand since Kaladin was the main POV. It does make the book weak in comparison to his others though).

2. He publishes a book a year or there abouts. It's one of the reasons I forgive Erikson as well. I want to read the next chapter of the series instead of waiting 3-5 years. I can forgive writing flaws if I know the wait for the next book is manageable.

[Suttree]

So did Robert Jordan's.

Not true at all. Things got better after TEotW and peaked around TSR/TFoH/LoC. Then they famously slowed down but the issues people have with RJ's work are very different from those of Sanderson. Of course RJ increased the pace and turned things around with KoD so the above statement doesn't really work on any level.

[Gaston de Foix]

The problem most people have with his work in the WoT is that each of his books seemed to get progressively worse. That was especially disappointing in relation to AMoL as they changed his writing process and even pushed the release date to address all the issues that popped up with ToM.

I can't claim to be a big Wheel of Time fan (I have only read the first and last three books and skimmed the rest) but those who find him disappointing for his execution of AMOL should compare him to the alternative. It's not an easy thing, finishing someone else's work, and I can think of virtually no one who would have done a better (and more timely) job. I'm not necessarily saying he was particularly timely or particularly good, though FWIW I enjoyed AMOL, I'm simply saying I doubt anyone else except Robert Jordan would have or could have done a better job. Even his detractors concede that he is immensely hard working and his sincerity and respect for RJ is palpable.

[Mexal]

Not true at all. Things got better after TEotW and peaked around TSR/TFoH/LoC. Then they famously slowed down but the issues people have with RJ's work are very different from those of Sanderson. Of course RJ increased the pace and turned things around with KoD so the above statement doesn't really work on any level.

Of course the issues are different but the fact that books get progressively worse, on a story that he did not originally write (11 books first!), did not plot originally, doesn't really work for me, especially when the author had 3-4 books towards the end that were just a slog to get through, which were much worse in my eyes than anything Sanderson has ever written, even if it has better prose.

ETA: Holy run on sentence. Not going to fix it but re-reading that...blah

[Rhom]

Of course the issues are different but the fact that books get progressively worse, on a story that he did not originally write (11 books first!), did not plot originally, doesn't really work for me, especially when the author had 3-4 books towards the end that were just a slog to get through, which were much worse in my eyes than anything Sanderson has ever written, even if it has better prose.

ETA: Holy run on sentence. Not going to fix it but re-reading that...blah

See Mexal's posts in the Entertainment section started out strong, but his prose and tendencies for run-on sentences really seem lacking in his later forays into the Literature sub-forum.

[Gabriele]

And Amazon.de did it again. :) Just got an email that something big and shiny will be delivered tomorrow.

That's almost a week early. :devil:

[Suttree]

I'm simply saying I doubt anyone else except Robert Jordan would have or could have done a better job. Even his detractors concede that he is immensely hard working and his sincerity and respect for RJ is palpable.

Oh it was a beyond difficult job, especially when one considers how much content he had to create with little to no guidance from the notes(it was amusing to see the company line on how much material RJ had shift over the course of the three books). Add to that the split and insane release schedule, none of it was really conducive to an author being able to put out his best work.

Of course the issues are different but the fact that books get progressively worse,

But they didn't get progressively worse. In fact from the series launch they got better until that TS/TFoH/LoC stretch. After that they slowed down until CoT but then returned to form with KoD.

[Mexal]

See Mexal's posts in the Entertainment section started out strong, but his prose and tendencies for run-on sentences really seem lacking in his later forays into the Literature sub-forum.

I got a proper chuckle from this :lol:

But they didn't get progressively worse. In fact from the series launch they got better until that TS/TFoH/LoC stretch. After that they slowed down until CoT but then returned to form with KoD.

Ok. You're a semantic person. They didn't get progressively worse from book 1. As the series went on, some of the books, say 7-10, were terrible and while KoD was good, it's mostly good because something actually happened without having to slog yourself through it. It wasn't Book 1-4 good, but it certainly wasn't book 7-10 bad. It feels like a return to form because of what came before it, not necessarily due to the book itself.

Anyway, enough of this. I'm not a huge Sanderson fan but I enjoy his books for what they are; popcorn entertainment that progresses in a timely manner.

[Suttree]

Ok. You're a semantic person. They didn't get progressively worse from book 1. As the series went on, some of the books, say 7-10, were terrible and while KoD was good, it's mostly good because something actually happened without having to slog yourself through it. It wasn't Book 1-4 good, but it certainly wasn't book 7-10 bad. It feels like a return to form because of what came before it, not necessarily due to the book itself.

Guess I just mistook your meaning when you said they got progressively worse. Long series are almost always going to have an ebb and flow. It will be interesting to see how that plays out with BS's Stormlight.

[Werthead]

The second half of KoD is good. The first half is KoD is basically CoT II, and rather painful to read on that level. Once the book gets over that hump, it's great, but before that it's pretty poor.

As for getting progressively worse, I have to disagree. TGS is certainly the best of the three, but ToM is the one that's the worst, due to the hideous timeline problems and the rather rushed approach to some storylines and the confusion in others. AMoL fell inbetween in quality for me, but was still a worthy conclusion to the series. I would rank all three as superior to CoT, WH and PoD, the rather dull middle third of LoC and the interminable circus scenes in TFoH.

[Suttree]

Fair point on AMoL, not sure if I would go quite that far but ToM is neck and neck with CoT as the worst book in the series for me. As for something like PoD, while slow it had moments of brilliance that exceeded much of what BS did. The Rand/LTT dialog, Damona Campaign and Cup of Sleep for example.

As I said above though, much of the disappointment with AMoL in the fandom seemed to stem from the push back of the release and claims of changes from TJ that were going to address a number of the problems. Only to see lack of polish and a number of those problems pop back up.

In relation to the slow down it is rather apples and oranges to compare Sanderson's work with the middle section of WoT simply due to where they were relative in the story arc. Again it will be interesting in Stormlight to see how BS handles that mid series stretch that a number of talented authors problems.

[aceluby]

Anyway, enough of this. I'm not a huge Sanderson fan but I enjoy his books for what they are; popcorn entertainment that progresses in a timely manner.

Exactly. Can't really say it any better. I can understand why people wouldn't like him if they went in expecting more.

[fionwe1987]

I think there are different issues at play here. Jordan's work got slower, but they never lost cohesiveness. Brandon's work while fast paced even in the hell-pit of ToM, simply started unspooling. aMoL may have fewer moments of "WTF was that?" than ToM, but each of those moments hit harder because this was the final volume.

After months of not reading WoT, though, I can't help but agree that the end, even from RJ, would have been disappointing. After all the intricacies and minor details stopped mattering as much to me, I can't help but think that the series would have benefited entirely from an earlier "start" to the last battle. That it spanned just one book is kind of ridiculous, in some ways. I'd have preferred the characters to grow and mature and be ready for the last battle by book 7, then spend 2-3 books actually doing the fighting. This "Got ready to save the world in the nick of time" aspect of WoT is its greatest failing, I think. Its a failure to understand that great drama and suspense can be had even when your characters aren't plucky farm kids faced with saving the world anymore.

And saying that, I think I also captured my biggest issue with aMoL. The possible drama in the interaction of so many characters who've grown into their own was just not mined enough, and gave way to too many Trolloc battles.

[Suttree]

and gave way to too many Trolloc battles.

The battles overall were just terrible. Not just for the waves of video game esque trolloc fodder but also for the mistakes, fudged numbers, disappearing channelers etc. It fundamentally changed the nature of the LB