Doctor Who: Season 32 thread

[Werthead]

I liked the fact that the Silurians feel they owe the Doctor a favour. He did save them from total extinction and brokered a peace with humanity like five times before it finally stuck. The Doctor also making the ultimate punishment for a Sontaran to be made a nurse was a great idea. This was also the first time that the Sontarans have really worked in NuHu, though sadly only by turning them into comic relief (then again, they arguably only really worked in one out of their four appearances in Old Hu anyway, so that's not saying much).

Also, I'm glad the Cybermen only had a cameo. Though of course there are now debates over whether these were Cybus interdimensional interlopers or the native-timeline Cybermen from Mondas/Telos. Meh, they can leave resolving that until the next proper Cyber story.

Overall, a very solid episode and a nice inversion of the season finale last year with a bunch of aliens joining forces to help the Doctor this time instead of trying to imprison him (and featuring two of the same races).

[Datepalm]

Awesome! I have to say I really, really dislike the trope of falling in love with a previous love interests daughter, but "Lets Kill Hitler" kind of made up for it.

At what point in the River timeline do they have their whole, like, relashionship though? just randomly strewn about?

Some good lines in this one too. Was that fat-thin-gay-married-anglican-marines?

[Werthead]

I have to say I really, really dislike the trope of falling in love with a previous love interests daughter

The Doctor certainly was never interested in Amy in that way though, very heavily rejecting her when she tried it on with him, so I'm not sure that's a fair comparison.

OTOH, him and River arguably make a lot more sense: she has a Time Lord connection, is a bit out of sorts in time and space and so on. She's certainly not entirely human. Also, oddly, the fear he'd have that she'd die or that he'd outlive her (arguably the thing that prevents him from pursuing any relationship with much shorter-lived species) is to some extent negated as he's already seen her die.

The Doctor Who Confidential report afterwards even makes a rather eyebrow-raising point:

Alex Kingston - River - says the cot will reappear and it raises more questions. Hints that River is the mother of the Doctor's children? But then Tennant seemed to know all about them before he met River, which he wouldn't if they are in his future. Odd.

Unless it was just a reference to it being Susan's cot :)

[Xanrn]

You know when the Doctor and River were talking about the crib and Doctor was all "but we...".

My aSoIaF brain worm broke in and said, He she is probably his sister/mother/aunt.

Stupid BBC, I thought we were going to get a decent Battle of Daemon Run, not a bar fight.

So River kills the Doctor then breaks out of her exosuit?

Leading into the episode, where she then dies and regenerates.

[Foreverlad]

You know when the Doctor and River were talking about the crib and Doctor was all "but we...".

My aSoIaF brain worm broke in and said, He she is probably his sister/mother/aunt.

Stupid BBC, I thought we were going to get a decent Battle of Daemon Run, not a bar fight.

So River kills the Doctor then breaks out of her exosuit?

Leading into the episode, where she then dies and regenerates.

Awesome episode, but i'm left a bit confuzzled.

River is Amy's daughter, and Rory's. Do we know for a fact that the DNA shown on the computer screen is real? We've glimpsed the possibility that a universe reboot and time on the Tardis could, theoretically, incorporate some Timelordianesque essence into the fabric of life, but it still doesn't seem to fit... the little girl in episode 2 dies and regenerates. We know that for a fact. We also know the Doctor of the future gives River a modified sonic screwdriver in order to preserve her 'life' when she'll die in the library. Were she part part time-lord, even Tardis-based, she wouldn't need that screwdriver to survive.

Wouldn't it be more plausible that the little girl in the spacesuit is actually the daughter of The Doctor and River, and the grandchild of Rory and Amy?

[Derfel Cadarn]

We also know the Doctor of the future gives River a modified sonic screwdriver in order to preserve her 'life' when she'll die in the library. Were she part part time-lord, even Tardis-based, she wouldn't need that screwdriver to survive.

Wouldn't it be more plausible that the little girl in the spacesuit is actually the daughter of The Doctor and River, and the grandchild of Rory and Amy?

The Doctor had to 'save' River with the screwdriver because when she died in the library, it was beyond a time lord's ability to regenerate. We know this because the Doctor would have died too if he'd done it.

[Proper Dave]

The weird thing about the library eps, I thought, was that if all those teleported people who were stored in the computer could be physically reconstituted and put back in thgeir bodies, then why not River and the rest?

I didn't like that episode much. The revelation about River wasn't a revelation at all, and the rest seemed too much like Moffat just threw everything in (again) in an attempt to produce something good. Like he's taken a leaf out of RTD's book on how to do finales. I hated ALL of RTD's finales, and I've not really liked Moffat's so far. I also guessed that Korvarian had switched the babies in some way. It'd be nice to be surprised.

There was some good dialogue, and new DW really seems to get a lot of comedy value from poking fun at Daleks, Cybermen and, now, Sontarans. I'd have liked to have seen some new Cybermen, though.

[Datepalm]

The Doctor certainly was never interested in Amy in that way though, very heavily rejecting her when she tried it on with him, so I'm not sure that's a fair comparison.

I call shenanigans - sure, theres a fair argument to be made about the Doctors own feelings never being anything other utterly platonic, but in terms of presenting the possibility and messing with the viewers, Doctor/Amy isn't exactly far fetched. For this context, (ie, me being squicked) it dosen't matter if its never acted on or reciprocated - Amy does have a role in the, er, 'text' of being a would-be love interest and Amy-Rory-Doctor is played as a love triangle. Hence, Ewwww. (Again, its the turn of the story itself that bugging me, not so much the Doctor himself, who I do think is largely innocent - he as a person dosen't have some sort of Littlefinger Complex. But then, he's not a person, he's a character.)

[Jon AS]

I really enjoyed this. I agree with whoever pointed out that various aliens coming together to help the Doctor is a nice inversion of the Pandorica incident. And I want a spinoff with the Silurian woman solving crimes in Victorian London.

Quite a few good lines, too.

"Good men don't need rules. Today is not a good day to find out why I have so many."

I have to say I really, really dislike the trope of falling in love with a previous love interests daughter

He first met her as an adult, before he ever knew her mother. Which can also be used to dismiss what I consider a weird/squicky trend: this is the third time Moffat has written a story about a young girl meeting the Doctor and developing a strong attraction to him which is played out to some degree once she is grown up. Which from the Doctor's viewpoint takes virtually no time at all.

I guess I could even throw in Lorna from this episode as a fourth, but there really was no hint of romantic intent there. She simply seemed to admire him for being a "Doctor".

ETA: I went back to check what River's reaction when meeting Amy in "Time of the Angels" was, but there wasn't really anything special.

What was fun was that the museum the Doctor and Amy visit at the very beginning of that episode was "the final resing place of the headless monks".

Random crackpot theory: River isn't a full Time Lord and the Doctor was right that she can't regenerate. On top of that, the efforts of turning her into a weapon were slowly killing her. But something about killing the Doctor in "The impossible Astronaut" allows her to regenerate and grow up.

[mormont]

Funniest line in the episode:

"I have gene-spliced myself for all nursing duties. I can produce magnificent quantities of lactic fluid!"

River being Amy's daughter may not seem like a really left-field development, and the name 'Melody Pond' gave it away pretty early on, but y'know, we do a lot of speculation around here. It's pretty hard to come up with a twist that really catches us off-guard. ;)

[Datepalm]

He first met her as an adult, before he ever knew her mother. Which can also be used to dismiss what I consider a weird/squicky trend: this is the third time Moffat has written a story about a young girl meeting the Doctor and developing a strong attraction to him which is played out to some degree once she is grown up. Which from the Doctor's viewpoint takes virtually no time at all.

Yeah, that too. Again, I think the Doctor is in the clear here, but the writers need to stop introducing women who's characters go on to have a significant sexual dimension (which is fine, though honestly I thought the mincing about in mentioning sex was a bit weird since that episode where Amy literally drags the Doctor into bed) as young girls first (which is a bit weird as a trend.)

Anyway, minor nitpicks, I enjoyed it overall. I liked "I'm old! I'm fat! I'm blue!" too.

[Jon AS]

River being Amy's daughter may not seem like a really left-field development, and the name 'Melody Pond' gave it away pretty early on, but y'know, we do a lot of speculation around here. It's pretty hard to come up with a twist that really catches us off-guard.

I agree. If I hadn't gotten into the habit of discussing stuff like this on the internet, I probably wouldn't have thought about it enough to guess it.

Oh, and I just now got the Stevie Wonder joke.:lol:

[Eurytus]

Let's Kill Hitler might be the best title for a Doctor Who episode ever.

[williamjm]

The Doctor had to 'save' River with the screwdriver because when she died in the library, it was beyond a time lord's ability to regenerate. We know this because the Doctor would have died too if he'd done it.

The way that episode provides that explanation for how even someone who would regenerate would die does make me wonder how much of River's story Moffat had planned when he wrote the library episode.

River being Amy's daughter may not seem like a really left-field development, and the name 'Melody Pond' gave it away pretty early on, but y'know, we do a lot of speculation around here. It's pretty hard to come up with a twist that really catches us off-guard. ;)

They did manage to do it in the previous episode with the fake-Amy thing, so I suppose we can't expect it to happen twice in a row.

I call shenanigans - sure, theres a fair argument to be made about the Doctors own feelings never being anything other utterly platonic, but in terms of presenting the possibility and messing with the viewers, Doctor/Amy isn't exactly far fetched. For this context, (ie, me being squicked) it dosen't matter if its never acted on or reciprocated - Amy does have a role in the, er, 'text' of being a would-be love interest and Amy-Rory-Doctor is played as a love triangle.

I suppose having a relationship with your friends' daughter is generally considered a bit dubious, and I notice the Doctor gets out of there quickly before Amy realises what is going on ;)

Let's Kill Hitler might be the best title for a Doctor Who episode ever.

It might be the best title for any TV episode ever.

[Jon AS]

I suppose having a relationship with your friends' daughter is generally considered a bit dubious, and I notice the Doctor gets out of there quickly before Amy realises what is going on ;)

He did give Amy and Rory a few worried glances before sprinting into the TARDIS, yeah.

Since I'm busily procrastinating today I searched for a handy graph that maps River's and the Doctor's timeline and Google obliged. Now it all makes sense!

[Poobah]

Since I'm busily procrastinating today I searched for a handy graph that maps River's and the Doctor's timeline and Google obliged. Now it all makes sense!

Suddenly everything becomes clear!

*mutters about wibbly-wobbly-timey-wimey-stuff*

[Zoë Sumra]

You know when the Doctor and River were talking about the crib and Doctor was all "but we...".

My aSoIaF brain worm broke in and said, He she is probably his sister/mother/aunt.

*nods* Me too. *wants to rewatch the library episodes*

[Derfel Cadarn]

The River/Doctor timeline is pretty messed up. It seems to be going in reverse, but we know from the library episode that the 2nd last time the Dr met River was when he gave her the screwdriver. Either that happened off-screen very early into the 11th Dr's regeneration or it's not a hard-and-fast rule. Given how upset he was when he gave her the screwdriver, we can assume it was much later when she really meant something to him. Perhaps he saved that last meeting for when he was older? The library episode was the only time she met the 10th Doctor.

Also River comments how much younger the 10th Doctor's eyes are, but the 11th Doctor isn't that much older than the 10th when she meets him. A possibility is that their personal timelines are running contrary to each other until a point (maybe the Angels episode) but after that but before her death older Doctor's start visiting her after prison. In the library she's surprised the 10th Doctor doesnt recognise her at first which would suggest she thought he was an incarnation after the 11th, which would further strengthen that later on the Dr breaks the reverse-timeline thing.

[williamjm]

I rewatched the first two episodes of the season. Some things make more sense after the most recent episode but other things don't. I'd forgotten that Amy finds a picture of her holding baby Melody in the orphanage, it would suggest that she gets her back fairly soon (unless it was taken on Demons Run, I suppose).

River's reaction to the shooting of the Doctor is a bit ambiguous. Her initial reaction suggests she didn't know what was going to happen, but then seems to understand why firing her gun at the astronaut had no effect. This seems odd if we assume that the River/Melody shot the Doctor, but maybe the Silence made her forget (actually, I suppose that seems a likely explanation).

What is never explained is why the Silence in the White House orders Amy to tell the Doctor about her pregnancy. If we assume that they're allied with the Doctor's other enemies then why would they want him to know about it?

[valacirca]

Theorising:

Possibly: River is Amy's baby. River kills the Doctor in the space suit at the start of this series. Young!River is the next owner of the Tardis (which has already happened in her timeline).

Props to you ma'am for calling it over a month before the reveal. :thumbsup: