The NFL Thread 10

[Stone-Made-Soft]

Rice also killed NE in the Wild Card round (22 rushes for 152 yards & 2 TDs) so Stego should give him some props. Saying he was the best might of been hyperbole but he's in the Top 5.

[DanteGabriel]

Rice also killed NE in the Wild Card round (22 rushes for 152 yards & 2 TDs) so Stego should give him some props. Saying he was the best might of been hyperbole but he's in the Top 5.

I guess running up yards against a mediocre rush defense that quit halfway through the game counts as an achievement in Baltimore.

Seriously, what kind of stupid logic is this? "My guy racked up big gains against your team so you have to agree when I say he's the best in the league." Terrell Suggs, is that you?

By the way, it's "might have been." "Might of been" makes no sense.

[Stone-Made-Soft]

I guess running up yards against a mediocre rush defense that quit halfway through the game counts as an achievement in Baltimore.

I don't even live in Baltimore :P but I do like the Ravens (not my favorite team though).

[Stone-Made-Soft]

I didn't say Stego had to agree with me but "Yeah, no" from Stego is hardly an argument against Rice being the best back in football.

Also, why are you attacking me over this Gabriel? You’re being needlessly confrontational.

[DanteGabriel]

I didn't say Stego had to agree with me but "Yeah, no" from Stego is hardly an argument against Rice being the best back in football.

Also, why are you attacking me over this Gabriel? You’re being needlessly confrontational.

Because I'm a bored asshole and the "you have to give him props because he had a good game against the Pats" argument is still dumb. By your logic one would have to admit Matt Flynn is a top 5 QB.

[Kalbear]

I think that in a league where Adrian Peterson and CJ exist, saying Ray Rice is the best RB ever is a bit silly. I suspect that if the Chiefs actually gave him the ball Charles would be considered the best; he's been amazing with only 200 carries this year. But that's hard to argue when he doesn't actually have said carries.

[arrowfan]

Also, why are you attacking me over this Gabriel? You’re being needlessly confrontational.

yea cmon guys, cut the guy some slack here! Lets have fun talking football not flame wars.

[arrowfan]

Because I'm a bored asshole and the "you have to give him props because he had a good game against the Pats" argument is still dumb. By your logic one would have to admit Matt Flynn is a top 5 QB.

I think his argument isn't based solely on that single game. Its the season he's having and that game as one in which he played well.

[awesome possum]

Considering Ray Rice is only in his third year, the guy is going to be a power player in the league for some years. I wouldn't say he's the best, but his skill set definitely makes him one of the most valuable backs in the league.

[TheBigTEA]

Granted I don't get to see R. Rice or C. Johnson play all that much, I do get to see A.P. A LOT (as a Packer fan, too much)but from the games I have seen R. Rice in I have to say I think he is a better receiver than either Johnson or Peterson. Does this make him a BETTER back? No, but the guy really is handy and dynamic.

J. Charles is also a freakin' dynamic back that deserves far more attention than he gets, but I guess I feel that way about quite a few guys. Jones-Drew from Jacksonville is also pretty damn amazing.

I just hope the Packers have it in them to take down the Giants and da' Bears...

[Stone-Made-Soft]

Thanks arrowfan.

I'm going to make this my last post on the subject then I'll move on. AP & CJ are better rushers than RR. However, RR is a better receiver than both of them. He's also better at blocking than AP. The Vikings coaches sub Chester Taylor in because they do not trust AP to be on the field during obvious passing situations. I haven't seen enough of CJ this season to comment on his blocking. Does Ringer come in as a 3rd down back? Rice's biggest weakness, which is debatable as far as I'm concerned, is his lack of power & size. The Ravens coaches prefer to have McGahee, who is significantly bigger, on the field during goal line situations. I'm confident that once RR gets goal line touches he'll put those concerns to rest. RR is one of the best RBs in football if you look at the whole picture, which is constituted of blocking, receiving, rushing, picking up the blitz, and protecting the football.

I feel like his agent now ;)

[Jaxom 1974]

yea cmon guys, cut the guy some slack here! Lets have fun talking football not flame wars.

You really don't read these threads that closely, do you...? :P

[Week]

Thanks arrowfan.

I'm going to make this my last post on the subject then I'll move on. AP & CJ are better rushers than RR. However, RR is a better receiver than both of them. He's also better at blocking than AP. The Vikings coaches sub Chester Taylor in because they do not trust AP to be on the field during obvious passing situations.

Do the Bears know about this?!

I haven't seen enough of CJ this season to comment on his blocking. Does Ringer come in as a 3rd down back?

CJ is probably a better receiver than Rice. It's a wash at worst. Also, I'm sure that CJ sees 7-8 in the box a lot more than Rice does (Flacco Boldin, Mason, Heap, etc. vs...Collins and Britt..sometimes)

I'm confident that once RR gets goal line touches he'll put those concerns to rest.

Perhaps then it would be a stronger argument to anoint him the best?

RR is one of the best RBs in football if you look at the whole picture, which is constituted of blocking, receiving, rushing, picking up the blitz, and protecting the football.

One of the best sure.

Also, let's not forget Frank Gore (broken hip notwithstanding).

And Benjarvus Green-Ellis. ;)

[Jaime L]

Think you can make the case Ray Rice is now the most well rounded back in the league. Does everything well. But he's still in a different echelon than the guys you have to actively scheme against: AP and CJ. Charles too but his own coach actively schemes against him so no worries there.

It's funny to me that the NFL threads often get contentious while the CFB threads almost never do. And the NFL thread doesn't even get contentious in the way I would expect, flames between fans of rivals. It gets contentious in all kinds of ways.

Everyone agrees naming your divisions "legends" and "leaders" is fucking retarded, what's there to get contentious about?

And who doesn't love the Beef O'Brady's Bowl?

[Stone-Made-Soft]

Do the Bears know about this?!

My bad. AP does come out on 3rd & medium and 3rd & long. It's one of Gruden's talking points every time he calls a Vikings game. Does Gerhart go in?

[Stego]

WTF. Rex Ryan is a weird dude.

[DanteGabriel]

WTF. Rex Ryan is a weird dude.

Heard about that on sports radio this morning.

Now, there's nothing wrong with being a foot fetishist or whatever and making some harmless videos with your wife. But if you're the very public coach of a team in New York, maybe you should keep this shit off the Internets.

Bears fans, I am looking forward to your signs at the game this weekend.

[Rhom]

By my best calculation at this point, the current NFL draft standings would look something like this: (I haven't taken into consideration the myriad tie breakers or other complicated things so the logjam of 5 win teams could be entirely different. Also, the order of playoff finish is obviously yet to be determined... but you get the idea.)

2 win team

1. Carolina

3 win teams

2. Denver

3. Cincinatti

4 win teams

4. Detroit

5. Arizona

6. Buffalo

5 win teams

7. Washington

8. Dallas

9. Minnesota

10. Houston

11. Cleveland

12. San Francisco

6 win teams

13. St. Louis

14. Tennessee

7 win teams

15. Oakland

16. Miami

8 win teams

17. Green Bay

18. Tampa Bay

19. Jacksonville

20. San Diego

Playoff teams

Wild Cards

21. Giants

22. Jets

23. Baltimore

24. New Orleans

Division Winners

25. Seattle

26. Indianapolis

27. Kansas City

28. Pittsburgh

29. Philadelphia

30. Chicago

31. Atlanta

32. New England

Looking over that, the "winner" of the NFC West is really a big loser in the draft standings. Consider that San Francisco has @ St. Louis and Arizona remaining. Seattle has @ Tampa Bay and St. Louis. The Rams have the aforementioned games home against the Niners and away to the Seahawks. It is therefore entirely possible that all three teams could finish the year at 7-9 (which would put San Francisco into the playoffs by virtue of division record). Because the playoff teams always draft after the the teams that didn't make the playoffs, that could mean that the winner of the NFC West could potentially drop from a top 10 draft pick all the way to number 25. With the only compensation being a home playoff loss to the New Orleans Saints.

Additionally; Carolina just drafted Jimmy Clausen, Denver spent a first round pick on Tim Tebow (but canned the coach who took him), does Cincy want to plan the post Carson Palmer era just yet?, Detroit has the oft-injured but decent looking Matt Stafford... If he decides to come out; could Andrew Luck be the best player in the draft, but not get drafted until Arizona at number 5?!!?

[Trebla]

I think there is NO WAY Carolina passes on Luck. Has Jimmy Clausen show the slightest NFL upside? OTOH Denver hasn't seen enough of Tebow. Tebow has what Clausen has never had: intangibles*. In less than a season he has done a pretty good job of re-working his throwing mechanics. Cleveland has to think they have a QB of the future in Colt McCoy.

*let me just say that I HATED the slobbering over Tebow while he was in college. But by all appearences he is an extremely hard working kid.

[Jaime L]

I think there is NO WAY Carolina passes on Luck. Has Jimmy Clausen show the slightest NFL upside? OTOH Denver hasn't seen enough of Tebow. Tebow has what Clausen has never had: intangibles*. In less than a season he has done a pretty good job of re-working his throwing mechanics. Cleveland has to think they have a QB of the future in Colt McCoy.

Completely agree on Clausen.

Tebow's a bit tougher. There's question whether Denver brings in a new coach contingent that he works on developing Tebow. But especially if it's a big name - can you really hamstring him that way? That's Jerry Jones/Daniel Snyderesque you will play Roy Williams/Jeff George kinda bull that usually backfires.

So if the new coach believes Tebow's not the answer and Luck's sitting there (assuming he comes out) and he is then Tebow gets traded, right? Hell there are folks here more convinced of Cam Newton than Tebow.

It is not a foregone conclusion that Luck will come out according to some chatter. He only needs one more year to get his degree, and he really wants to get it. The rumor is that it may depend on whether Harbough returns or not. Luck seems like one of these guys who, while being great at football, doesn't want to be defined by football. I think that he would tell you that if he didn't come out and then slipped to the late first round like Locker that it wouldn't be that big of a deal.

Building on that, if the lockout is still looking likely come March you think he has to go back to Stanford. Why do nothing for a year when you can play your senior season at Stanford? Folks are saying he's the best QB prospect since John Elway - unlike Matt Leinart or Aaron Rodgers short of a catastrophic injury, nothing's changing that. Go back to Stanford for your senior year and be John Elway.