The NFL Thread 10

[Lord O' Bones]

Is it frozen up there right now?

Possibly. We were at 5,300 feet and it was likely for the snow to get down to there overnight. But:

1. I'm only there once every other year for a few days

2. They also own a home in Vegas. No sympathy.

[Trebla]

Tom Landry once had the opportunity to select Walter Payton. He passed. His words were, "You build with defense". Instead he picked Randy White.

Those words still ring true. The Bengals would be much better suited getting the best defensive player they can. They have a young receiver and tight end. Build elsewhere before going with skill positions.

[Mexal]

Tom Landry once had the opportunity to select Walter Payton. He passed. His words were, "You build with defense". Instead he picked Randy White.

Those words still ring true. The Bengals would be much better suited getting the best defensive player they can. They have a young receiver and tight end. Build elsewhere before going with skill positions.

I wouldn't be against it but remember, last year, they were the #4 ranked defense. Most of the injured players are on the defensive side. They need a safety or three badly but they won't get that in the top 5.

Their young receiver is slot receiver, not a #1. They are better placed to get Green then build safety/dline in the later rounds due to depth. I would much prefer that plan than passing on WR and being left with nothing in 2012.

This year, people wanted us to take Bryant. Not much has changed. But as I said, if we took Bowens or Fairley, I would still be pumped.

[Trebla]

well, I think there are two schools of thought in today's NFL: Win a title with an elite passing game or an elite defense. For the Bengals, which is closer to happening? Is a great receiver going to put Carson Palmer over the top? Would a rookie wide receiver be able to come in an make an immediate impact?

Or do you see if you can make that formerly #3 defense even better? I think Chicago is the perfect example of getting 2 impact defensive players and becoming a playoff contender. They brought back safety Chris Harris and got an elite pass rusher. That's why they are winning the NFC North.

[Mexal]

well, I think there are two schools of thought in today's NFL: Win a title with an elite passing game or an elite defense. For the Bengals, which is closer to happening? Is a great receiver going to put Carson Palmer over the top? Would a rookie wide receiver be able to come in an make an immediate impact?

Or do you see if you can make that formerly #3 defense even better? I think Chicago is the perfect example of getting 2 impact defensive players and becoming a playoff contender. They brought back safety Chris Harris and got an elite pass rusher. That's why they are winning the NFC North.

We need a game changer on offense. I don't think Green makes Palmer better because I think Palmer's arm is shot. However, I think he'll make a 2012 rookie better and it'll solidify our WR core for the next 5-8 years with Green, Shipley and Gresham. Any QB who comes into that system should be able to do pretty well assuming the OL gets better with Smith at RT and whatever rookie guard we pick up in the draft.

On defense, we do need DL players but this draft is deep at DL. We could easily get someone at the top of the 2nd round that could really help in the rotation. And honestly, with Dunlap, MJ and Atkins exploding this year (Dunlap has 7 sacks in 6 games, Atkins leads the team in QB hits from the DT spot and MJ is really hitting his stride), our biggest need is safety and we can't get that in the top 5.

To me, Green is a legit stud who will probably do more for the team in the long run than Bowers, especially given how many projected top DEs fail in this league.

[Rhom]

well, I think there are two schools of thought in today's NFL: Win a title with an elite passing game or an elite defense.

I've always wondered why you can't have both... presumably it would be due to the fact that a high octane passing attack scores too quickly and is off the field in short order, thus putting your defense back out there more often.

[awesome possum]

I've always wondered why you can't have both... presumably it would be due to the fact that a high octane passing attack scores too quickly and is off the field in short order, thus putting your defense back out there more often.

I think it is possible to have both, but not for a very long amount of time due to money.

If you have both an elite passing attack and defense, chance are you paid some big money to sign a few of those players on one or both sides of the ball. How you get lucky is if you have also developed young talent who then grow into impact players.

The problem, then, is that they also want to get paid and the salary cap only allows you to do so much. So you have to make room for new contracts or deal with the distractions that a holdout brings. Unless you get lucky and have the rare players who want to play for a certain team/coach/system more than they want to get an insane payday. Otherwise it's just not financially feasible to have both.

[Jaxom 1974]

Or do you see if you can make that formerly #3 defense even better? I think Chicago is the perfect example of getting 2 impact defensive players and becoming a playoff contender. They brought back safety Chris Harris and got an elite pass rusher. That's why they are winning the NFC North.

Yeah. I don't know that calling Chris Harris "elite" is apt...but Peppers...forget Brady and Rivers and all of those other offensive players. Peppers should be the MVP.

That being said, Chicago didn't have the picks to use in the draft, so it was easier to spend money. Turns out it was a lot of good money...but they didn't improve the defense, this year, with the draft...and we all know they should have spent some picks on O-Line guys, but what the heck, right? Now that the line has gotten kinda better after a few weeks without changing anything, I'm sure Jerry Angelo will see that as a reason to skip drafting a single O-Lineman this year too...

[Maithanet]

No chatter about the big Steelers Panthers game tonight?

A classic NFC-AFC showdown between a division leader and a conference doormat!

This bitter rivalry has...what? They've only played each other like twice ever? Oh.

Well they're not that far apart! Right? Surely geography....ok so there are like ten teams closer to Pittsburgh than Carolina is.

But it's a matchup of premiere pass rushers and their relentless attack on the quarterb-PEPPERS IS GONE! SHIT!

OK, so there's no reason to watch. You know there's a good chance you're probably going to anyway.

[Jaxom 1974]

No chatter about the big Steelers Panthers game tonight?

SEriously. Think about what you just said there. :P

[awesome possum]

Yeah. I don't know that calling Chris Harris "elite" is apt...but Peppers...forget Brady and Rivers and all of those other offensive players. Peppers should be the MVP.

Chris Harris isn't elite, but he's solid when he's not trying to be the "Hit Man" and focuses on making a tackle instead of the highlight reel. And his addition has essentially allowed Danieal Manning to stay at one position and flourish instead of being moved all around the field. He's helped solidify the back of the defense, not nearly as much as Peppers has helped solidify the front, but enough to make an impact on a group of corners and safeties who looked awful last season.

That being said, Chicago didn't have the picks to use in the draft, so it was easier to spend money. Turns out it was a lot of good money...but they didn't improve the defense, this year, with the draft...and we all know they should have spent some picks on O-Line guys, but what the heck, right? Now that the line has gotten kinda better after a few weeks without changing anything, I'm sure Jerry Angelo will see that as a reason to skip drafting a single O-Lineman this year too...

Nah, he knows he'll need to draft someone. So he'll pick up a couple guys in the 6th and 7th rounds.

[Jaxom 1974]

Nah, he knows he'll need to draft someone. So he'll pick up a couple guys in the 6th and 7th rounds.

And I still find that scary...

[Jaime L]

But frankly, I don't think that the stats prove that Haley is mismanaging these games. Yes, it would be frustrating for both Charles and Chiefs fans to see their premiere back get relatively few carries. But the Chiefs are winning the division, something nobody really predicted, and could very realistically make a run in the playoffs if they can run the ball effectively in bad weather. So Haley's decision to keep Charles as fresh as possible looks like it might pay off beautifully.

Think this is our point of contention. Haley is winning games though I give far more credit to the players he inherited and Pioli brought in that put them in this position. I mean Andy Reid has won a ton of games in spite of his, at times, laughable clock management. Winning alone doesn't make everything a coach do "right" or part of "the reason why he's winning."

I'll be less critical of the guy if they make the playoffs and he unleashes Charles fully then (not uncritical, just less), but the former isn't guaranteed and at this point I'm doubting the latter. But hey at least if he gets blown out we can have another fun controversy at him pointing at a coach for running up the score.

Yeah. I don't know that calling Chris Harris "elite" is apt...but Peppers...forget Brady and Rivers and all of those other offensive players. Peppers should be the MVP.

True. Amazing how the guy finally brought a good defense to Chicago. Never seen that.

[Jaxom 1974]

True. Amazing how the guy finally brought a good defense to Chicago. Never seen that.

You know, I know that was tongue in cheek, but you're probably not seeing as much of Peppers as we are, Jaime. I can't remember the last time we saw a big money guy come in here and play not only to the paycheck, but so well you think, "Damn, we got a steal..."

[Stego]

What would you do to fill our needs. Remember, we have 15 players on IR, second only to Indy.

If you have a top ten pick, you pick a defensive lineman.

[Jaime L]

You know, I know that was tongue in cheek, but you're probably not seeing as much of Peppers as we are, Jaime. I can't remember the last time we saw a big money guy come in here and play not only to the paycheck, but so well you think, "Damn, we got a steal..."

No, I agree he's definitely been a difference maker in every Bears game I've seen this year. He's absolutely been worth that contract - and playing on a team with enough talent around him, he can actually maximize his abilities instead of being triple teamed on every play. Also I'm bitter the Redskins comparable signing two years ago gets blocked to the ground and stays there for the next minute as the play unfolds around him.

Maybe he takes home the DPOY - not sure where he comes out versus Clay Matthews, Ngata and all the rest...just no way he's MVP.

[awesome possum]

Maybe he takes home the DPOY - not sure where he comes out versus Clay Matthews, Ngata and all the rest...just no way he's MVP.

I'd say if Matthews hadn't gotten injured and his production didn't drop once offenses clued in on his impact, he'd be a shoe-in. Ngata is the real competition, and Peppers not having the huge stats hurts with those who really only pay attention to stats.

I'm too lazy to look up the stats, but going from memory the Bears went from something like 23rd in rush defense last year to third this season. 12 or 13th in points allowed to second. 22nd or 23rd in passing TDs allowed to first, second or third (passing yards really doesn't matter in a Cover Two defense, which wants teams to pass, giving the D opportunity to get the turnover).

As has been said, the way he's morphed the Chicago D back into the Monsters of the Midway (both in play and maybe more important in mindset) rather than Monsters of Mediocrity can't be overstated. Urlacher being truly healthy for the first time in years helps, but the Cover Two is worthless, as was evident last year, without a great pass rush. Peppers provides that, but his presence alone makes the rest of the line and defense better.

[Trebla]

I never said Harris was an elite player, I said he was an impact player. The cover 2 is dependent on two things: a strong pass rush and consistent safety play. They haven't had the latter since they let Harris go in free agency and Mike Brown's wheels finally fell off.

[Lightning Lord]

Just saw that 49ers have pegged Troy Smith as the starter this week. Awesome. Nothing says Team like near randomly switching quarterbacks from week to week.

[Darkostar]

Just saw that 49ers have pegged Troy Smith as the starter this week. Awesome. Nothing says Team like near randomly switching quarterbacks from week to week.

Zygi Wilf doesn't understand what you're getting at here.