UK Politics IX

[MinDonner]

This almost deserves its own thread, but I'm not sure what mileage it would get so sticking it in here: Hugh Grant interviews ex-NotW phone-hacker who implicates all sorts of people in the affair, including Rebekah Wade and David Cameron, not realising he's being secretly taped.

And then, for the icing on the cake, phone-hacker writes up "interesting" version of the visit for the Mail. Credibility FAIL! :lmao:

[Daeric]

This almost deserves its own thread, but I'm not sure what mileage it would get so sticking it in here: Hugh Grant interviews ex-NotW phone-hacker who implicates all sorts of people in the affair, including Rebekah Wade and David Cameron, not realising he's being secretly taped.

And then, for the icing on the cake, phone-hacker writes up "interesting" version of the visit for the Mail. Credibility FAIL! :lmao:

That is just total and utter fail on the ex-NotW person.

In other worlds, Nurses 'no confidence' in Andrew Lansley

Nurses today voted overwhelmingly in favour of a motion of "no confidence" in the Health Secretary Andrew Lansley and his management of NHS reforms.

Delegates at the Royal College of Nursing conference in Liverpool voted 99 per cent in favour of the motion, to 1 per cent against.

Only 1% for him is just geez how do you annoy so many people.

[Thelonious]

This almost deserves its own thread, but I'm not sure what mileage it would get so sticking it in here: Hugh Grant interviews ex-NotW phone-hacker who implicates all sorts of people in the affair, including Rebekah Wade and David Cameron, not realising he's being secretly taped.

And then, for the icing on the cake, phone-hacker writes up "interesting" version of the visit for the Mail. Credibility FAIL! :lmao:

A quality comment on the Mail article:

Has anyone checked that he does indeed do this all over the country? Although with petrol prices being what they are and the cost of accommodation etc he probably doesn't make much from it. Unless he has a camper van or something of course.

The idea of Hugh Grant driving round the UK in a camper van purely for the purposes of cadging free Spitfire ale in various crap pubs fills me with joy.

[Maltaran]

So, it seems the Tories' main argument against AV is mudslinging rather than anything to do with the actual voting system. Is anyone really surprised?

In other news, the Royal family may no longer be sexist (although I'm sure Prince Philip won't change).

[VarysTheSpider]

On AV, Caroline Lucas said an interesting thing on the Guardian's weekly politcs podcast. Apparently she tabled an amendment that because the referendum is too narrow a question, voters should be asked to choose which electoral system they favoured from a list of options - FPTP, AV, AV+, STV, PR, etc. An interesting idea, but unfortunately Michael White didn't ask her quite HOW voters would choose, which under the circumstances would seem kinda important.

[The Marquis de Leech]

On AV, Caroline Lucas said an interesting thing on the Guardian's weekly politcs podcast. Apparently she tabled an amendment that because the referendum is too narrow a question, voters should be asked to choose which electoral system they favoured from a list of options - FPTP, AV, AV+, STV, PR, etc. An interesting idea, but unfortunately Michael White didn't ask her quite HOW voters would choose, which under the circumstances would seem kinda important.

The best way to do it is have two referendum (though that option seems to be a bit late now).

Referendum 1 (held this year):

Q1: Do you want to keep or change the current FPP voting system?

Q2: What is your preferred alternative voting system (AV, MMP, STV,etc)

If Q1 gets a majority in favour of change:

Referendum 2 (held next year)

Q1: Do you prefer FPP or [insert most popular answer to Q2]

This is how New Zealand changed from FPP to MMP in the early 1990s.

[The Iceman of the North]

That sounds too logical for the Brits, RBPL.

[john]

One referendum is bad enough. We'd go mad with power.

[TerraPrime]

We'd go mad

... and do what? Dine at the same table with your butler? :P

[Lummel]

This almost deserves its own thread, but I'm not sure what mileage it would get so sticking it in here: Hugh Grant interviews ex-NotW phone-hacker who implicates all sorts of people in the affair, including Rebekah Wade and David Cameron, not realising he's being secretly taped.

...

And then, for the icing on the cake, phone-hacker writes up "interesting" version of the visit for the Mail. Credibility FAIL! :lmao:

It probably does deserve it's own thread - but it could take years for something approaching the whole story to come out. Presumably once the four test cases have been heard then other people will be implicated. Whether News International then ups it's settlement money to try and keep the mess out of the courts or if more will become public with other newspapers implicated, we'll have to wait and see.

Daily Mail seems to have missed the other story though "REVEALED: surprisingly unshabby pub in Dover, denizens could almost be shown in public".

The idea of Hugh Grant driving round the UK in a camper van purely for the purposes of cadging free Spitfire ale in various crap pubs fills me with joy.

Sounds like the making of a new TV series. They could call it 'after they were famous'. Even better to totally corner the TV market he could solve crimes in between pints. Though I suppose to provide total TV coverage he would also have to refurbish the pub before selling it to a new leasee and judge the quality of the crisps (and pork scratchings) sold there.

[Slick Mongoose]

So what is the best argument for FPTP over AV?

[Hereward]

It'd make Nick Clegg cry again.

[Horza]

AV changes the electoral dynamic, favouring the least-disliked. This will tend to mean candidates and parties will try harder to woo voters from the other sides though this will be limited by optional preferencing.

In UK politics it will probably tend to exaggerate large swings and bolster the existing three major parties, especially the Lib Dems. If you think that's a problem that's the most sensible reason to vote No.

[Paxter]

AV changes the electoral dynamic, favouring the least-disliked. This will tend to mean candidates and parties will try harder to woo voters from the other sides though this will be limited by optional preferencing.

Was there any reason they chose the optional preferencing system? Sounds a lot like FPTP if a large % of Brits simply vote for their preferred party or can't be bothered filling in the rest of the ballot.

[Hereward]

Was there any reason they chose the optional preferencing system? Sounds a lot like FPTP if a large % of Brits simply vote for their preferred party or can't be bothered filling in the rest of the ballot.

Yes, that was as far as the Tories were willing to go in the coalition talks.

[Paxter]

Yes, that was as far as the Tories were willing to go in the coalition talks.

Right. Is there any chance though that the Conservatives would actually benefit from full AV if the likes of the BNP and the relatively large block of conservative Lib Dem voters directed their preferences to the Tories?

[Horza]

UKIP and to a lesser extent BNP votes would flow to them, but it really depends what happens to the LDs: if they end up a junior partner like the Nats down here or split into Orange Book vs LibLab that could direct enough preferences to the Tories in an enduring Centre-Right bloc.

Thing is, the Tories just don't do electoral reform on ideological grounds and their right wing hates the coalition and Cameron for this. This antipathy will only increase if the referendum gets up as they'll see it as eliminating the possibility of the strong Conservative majority they think they should have won at the last election.

[Maltaran]

There was a guy on the news at lunchtime today saying that AV would not have changed the overall results of any election for the last few decades (I forget how long back, but he specifically mentioned that even the 1992 election would not have been changed - Major would still have got a majority). One reason he gave was that, based on what happens in Scottish local elections when it's used, only about half the voters actually mark a second preference, and less than 1 in 3 mark more than 2.

[Horza]

Yeah, op. pref. just doesn't deliver the sort of full-on preference avalanches you get in Aussie Federal elections.

[Maltaran]

The news guy did specifically compare the proposed AV system to the Aussie one where you're required to rank everyone.