The Dagger and the Coin - SPOILER THREAD

[RaceBannon42]

While there were many instances of good dialog in the books, I think my favorite was, "You gave me a plant."

It summed up so much about that situation and Cithrin.

:)

My favorite scene in the whole book its Marcus charging the spider goddess.

[red snow]

:)

My favorite scene in the whole book its Marcus charging the spider goddess.

That was good but I think the scene where Marcus met Yardem was also excellent. I think up until that point Marcus was genuinely going to kill him but Yardem was cool as a cucumber and pointed out what Marcus would have done was madness. It says a lot about their relationship that they could move on and was a pleasant surprise/relief.

While there were many instances of good dialog in the books, I think my favorite was, "You gave me a plant."

It summed up so much about that situation and Cithrin.

That was a great line. I can't think of any specific quotes but there were many instances where I loved what Clara was saying/thought. Although her final sentence in book 2 is probably my favourite.

" "They asked if I'd been conspiring against Geder Paliako and the crown"

"What did you say?"

"That the thought hadn't occurred to me," she said.

"And" Vincen said.

Clara raised an eyebrow.

"and now it has" "

After what she and her family had been through that had me grinning. Not just that but I had a strong sense Geder had created his most dangerous enemy.

[williamjm]

That was good but I think the scene where Marcus met Yardem was also excellent. I think up until that point Marcus was genuinely going to kill him but Yardem was cool as a cucumber and pointed out what Marcus would have done was madness. It says a lot about their relationship that they could move on and was a pleasant surprise/relief.

I do wonder how things might have turned out if Cithrin really had been hurt or killed in Camnipol. Marcus' plan would still have been stupid and futile but he might not have been so forgiving of Yardem foiling it.

I dread what he plans on doing if he finds her - although I'm kind of surprised Basrahip is going along with it. Maybe the brotherhood genuinely believes he is the chosen one.

It sounds like it might lead to further conflict if Geder starts to believe that people other than the Timzanie are plotting against him, and I think Basrahip would be in favour of that although I'm a bit surprised if he's giving up on capturing the last Timzanie stronghold. I suspect Basrahip would still be willing to replace Geder if he became inconvenient (his dialogue after the attack by the bounty hunters suggests he thinks they're both expendable) but Geder's perfect for them at the moment.

I'm back to square one on not being so sure what that paragraph means. So it could be that Inys very actively started the war - as destroying a city is more than a prank.

I did find that paragraph a bit confusing as well. It did sound like Inys thought he provoked Morade but Morade's response was disproportionate.

He really is like Ricky Gervais from the office. He is so delusional as well. Not just with Cithrin but with the whole thing with Jorey where he seems to forget he butchered his father in front of him.

I feel there's nothing quite as despicable as the villain who doesn't even realise he's the villain.

[Xray the Enforcer]

Quick question, since I am having trouble remembering a lot from previous books (and book 2 in particular) -- what race(s) are the Spider Priests? Are they recruiting primarily from Firstbloods or are other races well-represented?

:)

My favorite scene in the whole book its Marcus charging the spider goddess.

That was good but I think the scene where Marcus met Yardem was also excellent. I think up until that point Marcus was genuinely going to kill him but Yardem was cool as a cucumber and pointed out what Marcus would have done was madness. It says a lot about their relationship that they could move on and was a pleasant surprise/relief.

Mr. X and I were talking about the book last night while fixing dinner, these two scenes were at the top of our favorites, in addition to the Cithrin scene I've already discussed. I LOLd for real when Marcus figured out that the spider attack wasn't going to plan. :lol:

[williamjm]

Quick question, since I am having trouble remembering a lot from previous books (and book 2 in particular) -- what race(s) are the Spider Priests? Are they recruiting primarily from Firstbloods or are other races well-represented?

I think they're all Firstbloods (at least when they're in the mountains, I'm not sure if they're recruiting non-Firstbloods in their new temples). Kit thinks when he leaves the mountains at the start of the first book that he's never seen anyone who wasn't a Firstblood and has only heard about their existence.

[Racker]

I know Marcus is considered a bit generic compared to the other main characters by a lot of people, but I enjoy his chapters a lot. I like the idea of the big sword fighter guy being relegated to something of a bit player rather than the hero (so far), just because it breathes life into the archetype.

I'm also glad him and Garden managed to work things out...I was sure that that thread was headed for tragedy.

[red snow]

I do wonder how things might have turned out if Cithrin really had been hurt or killed in Camnipol. Marcus' plan would still have been stupid and futile but he might not have been so forgiving of Yardem foiling it.

I think that was a big part of Marcus forgiving him when he discovered Cithrin was still doing well and Yardem was protecting her. If Cithrin had died in Camnipol then Yardem would have died and given Marcus' past - I'm sure things would have become quite messy for Geder. Which fits into this quite well.

I know Marcus is considered a bit generic compared to the other main characters by a lot of people, but I enjoy his chapters a lot. I like the idea of the big sword fighter guy being relegated to something of a bit player rather than the hero (so far), just because it breathes life into the archetype.

I'm also glad him and Garden managed to work things out...I was sure that that thread was headed for tragedy.

Marcus is one of those characters who is most effective when given a mission. Look at how his attitude changes when on a "save the world" mission with Kit. Look what he did when he decided to avenge his family. The thing is I think Marcus is scared of what he'll do when he sets his mind to it. He knew his plan in book 2 to rescue Cithrin was madness but that wouldn't have stopped him.

The fact that compared to the others he is small-scale doesn't mean there is ample opportunity for him to boil over and cause absolute chaos. While it would be fascinating to see, I'm not sure I'd want to see the thing that triggers him occur. I'll settle for him being rationally focused on saving the world for now.

[Xray the Enforcer]

Going back to the discussion about Morade and Inys, I think it's clear that the destruction of Morade's underwater city was what sparked the war; the poem had nothing to do with it. It's the equivalent of kicking over someone's sandcastle, really. I mean, it was a really elaborate sandcastle, but it was still essentially a hobby to win status/regard.

[RedEyedGhost]

Speaking of great lines/passages, I really liked it when after their long, arduous journey to find the sword Kit still gave Marcus an out on carrying it.

"This weapon is poison," Kit said. "I believe that the cause we carry it in is just, but that will not protect you. It is not only death to those whose skin it cuts; it holds a deeper violence within it. If you carry it -- just that, carry it and nothing more -- the poison will still affect you. In time, you will grow ill from it, and eventually, inevitably, it will kill you."

"It's a sword, Kit," Marcus said, lifting the green scabbard from its place. "They're all like that."

One question about the swords I have is, are the timinzinae immune to their poisonous effect? Could that be another reason why the spider cultist fear them?

Well, Ista from Paladin of Souls was the first comparison that came to my mind - smart, independent woman entering middle-age and finding real freedom for the first time.

That's a very good comparison; it's been about a decade since I read those books, so I blame my faulty memory on that :lol:

[Hereward]

I loved the book and was going to post the same quote REG did. I miss Dawson, though, sentimental old conservative that I am.

[Crazydog7]

Yeah but the most interesting part was the sample chapter from the next book. Not everyone is on board with Geder anymore huh? Cool. Interesting overall and they seem to be released on a regular basis.

[Tibi088]

I have been thinking on Yardems betrayal. At first i was really angry at him but after a time im not so sure anymore. There is no question that he did betray Marcus but i think the circumstances are interesting. Marcus was just going to betray Cithrin and everything she built even if he would have done it to save her. Not to mention the company they built up in the city (i mean the guards). Im not sure if Yardems decision to betray him wasnt justified. Of course we would need more information on Yardems reasons. Any thoughts on the matter?

[williamjm]

I have been thinking on Yardems betrayal. At first i was really angry at him but after a time im not so sure anymore. There is no question that he did betray Marcus but i think the circumstances are interesting. Marcus was just going to betray Cithrin and everything she built even if he would have done it to save her. Not to mention the company they built up in the city (i mean the guards). Im not sure if Yardems decision to betray him wasnt justified. Of course we would need more information on Yardems reasons. Any thoughts on the matter?

I think Yardem trying to stop Marcus is justified. Just because he is working with Marcus doesn't mean he is obligated to go off on a quixotic and suicidal quest and he does repeatedly warn Marcus that his plan is terrible. Following Marcus' plan would be bad for Yardem, bad for Cithrin, bad for the Medean bank (I'm not sure Yardem cares too much about the bank in general, but I can't imagine him being keen on stealing from his employer) and also bad for Marcus. How much of Yardem's motivation is due to thinking it's the best thing for Cithrin and Marcus and how much is his own self-interest is not entirely clear, but I get the impression that Yardem would happily put their interests ahead of his.

What might be debatable is whether knocking Marcus out and locking him up is the best way of stopping him, obviously a solution that didn't involve violence would be preferable but Marcus is stubborn enough that maybe there really wasn't any alternative.

[red snow]

I think Yardem trying to stop Marcus is justified. Just because he is working with Marcus doesn't mean he is obligated to go off on a quixotic and suicidal quest and he does repeatedly warn Marcus that his plan is terrible. Following Marcus' plan would be bad for Yardem, bad for Cithrin, bad for the Medean bank (I'm not sure Yardem cares too much about the bank in general, but I can't imagine him being keen on stealing from his employer) and also bad for Marcus. How much of Yardem's motivation is due to thinking it's the best thing for Cithrin and Marcus and how much is his own self-interest is not entirely clear, but I get the impression that Yardem would happily put their interests ahead of his.

What might be debatable is whether knocking Marcus out and locking him up is the best way of stopping him, obviously a solution that didn't involve violence would be preferable but Marcus is stubborn enough that maybe there really wasn't any alternative.

I think the rough option was the only one for Yardem to employ. He knows what Marcus is like.

Thinking about the old catchphrase they had, I wonder if Marcus himself hoped Yardem would keep him in check for the good of the company? He maybe didn't like it when Yardem did but that's maybe what held his sword when they met again.

[Tibi088]

Im reading the third book right now and it answers the question of Yardems betrayal.

[Mexal]

I loved this book. I feel like the series gets progressively better with each book. I also find it much more interesting than his previous series which I did like. Can't wait to see where it goes.

And like others, I love the passages that have been called out here.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

I'm finally done with the book (I live in Turkey so revolting took all my time in June :P ).

I don't know when & how it happened but Clara is my favourite POV now, followed by Marcus. Cithrin and Geder are too cold for me. Guess I'm neither the dagger nor the coin kind of guy.

The book had a terrific ending, that made me look for all the references to Morade and Drakkis. Can't wait for The Widow's House.

Do we have a planned name for the final book by the way?

[red snow]

I think Clara won a lot of people over in this book. She was certainly my favourite this time around and wasn't in earlier books. I guess it's because she has the most growth in this book and it's fun to see her step outside her shell and get glimpses of how dangerous she may become. Beforehand I'd say Geder and Cithrin were probably favourites because of similar types of transition. Does this mean book 4 will be Marcus'? Could be now that he's point man on the dragon.

EDIT If the next book is called "the widows house" I'm guessing we're in for a treat with Clara. Then again the last one was "the tyrants law" so Marcus still has a chance :)

[williamjm]

I think Clara won a lot of people over in this book. She was certainly my favourite this time around and wasn't in earlier books. I guess it's because she has the most growth in this book and it's fun to see her step outside her shell and get glimpses of how dangerous she may become. Beforehand I'd say Geder and Cithrin were probably favourites because of similar types of transition. Does this mean book 4 will be Marcus'? Could be now that he's point man on the dragon.

EDIT If the next book is called "the widows house" I'm guessing we're in for a treat with Clara. Then again the last one was "the tyrants law" so Marcus still has a chance :)

I like Marcus, but I agree in some ways he's the least interesting of the main characters. He's probably the most predictable of them, you can always depend on him to do what he feels is right regardless of the consequences - to compare to another Abraham series, he's the James Holden of the Dagger and the Coin Universe.

I did like Clara's character already, but I agree she had some interesting development in this book and I can see her playing one of the main roles in the next book.

[YellowDogJen]

I am really enjoying the Dagger and the Coin, and like everyone else, I loved Clara's character development in Tyrant's Law. I'm a big fan of Daniel Abraham's.

I think I'm gonna catch up the Expanse for my next read. I got Leviathan Wakes with Dragon's Path, and liked it, but I haven't read the next two.

Man, Kindle makes it so easy - too easy - to feed my addiction!