The Dagger and the Coin - SPOILER THREAD

[Racker]

I believe 'clicker' refers to the race with the coat of fur (I think the Kutterdam but I'm on mobile right now and don't even know how to spell that), because of the beads they weave into their fur.

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

I started disliking Geder as soon as he burned ten thousand people alive because the cool kids were making fun of him.

I'll admit that I had to squash sympathetic feelings for him for the next book and a half, but I think that's intentional. He was written to be reminiscent of all the geeky kids who get shoved in lockers in tv and movies. He's a cultural archetype that's designed to garner sympathy.

[Faint]

I feel that Gender was pretty fascinating as he was developing in the first two books, but now that we know what he is, he has become a little stale.

[Racker]

But how much of that is really him, and how much is really just the spider priests' influence? Obviously he did burn a few thousand people alive long before he met them, so he's pretty fucked up on his own. But it'd be naive to think Basrahip wasn't exerting the same sort of control over him that he does over everyone else. My prediction is that in the next book, Geder is going to really get put through the wringer, between his breakdown at the end of this book and the priests having to show their hand a bit more thanks to the arrival of you-know-what.

[go joff go]

Just finished Tyrant's law. Really enjoying this series. Abraham has a weird talent for making a slow paced novel really engrossing. How long is this series supposed to be? Are we going to get to meet the other races the seemingly more developed ones at some point?

[Faint]

Just finished Tyrant's law. Really enjoying this series. Abraham has a weird talent for making a slow paced novel really engrossing. How long is this series supposed to be? Are we going to get to meet the other races the seemingly more developed ones at some point?

I believe five books are currently planned.

[jurble]

I didn't enjoy Tyrant's Law as much as the previous books in this series. I bought the book the day it came out, but it's taken me 2 weeks to finish. And then, when it finally starts getting interesting, it ends! guh

Finished last night. Some thoughts:

Seems like the Timzinae might be the "uncorrupted" slaves mentioned in the dragon's memory. They were probably created specifically to cull the corrupted ones (though obviously they weren't purely successful).

Inys calls Marcus Wester uncorrupted, so clearly any human without spiders is uncorrupted, since he's Firstblood.

Good book. Clara is awesome. Few thoughts:

Was there any hint about the Timzinae prejudice before? I know the idea is that the priests instill the fear of them, but it seems awfully widespread from nowhere. That said, it does raise the question about what they are - given the hints in the races essay about how they were made for unknown purpose towards the end of the Dragon's reign, and how much the spider people obviously fear them, I'm gonna guess that was the purpose. Maybe their ears block to make them impossible to affect by voice?

It amused me that rather than playing it as a moment of high drama, the dragon waking up was treated in much the same way as you'd wake up a mate who's been crashing on your couch after a night out.

I think it's clear that the Timzinae were not created for 'bee-keeping' as the guide in the back of the book says, but 'spider-keeping'. Their small scales, and ability to close all their orifices prevent the spiders from entering their blood. The spiders appear to be a weapon designed by Morade, for whatever purpose. The Cult of the Spider-Goddess is anti-Timzinae for the reason that they can block their ears to their words (can close all orifices) and their scales prevent spider contamination like the dude who attacked Geder. But one of the Cult's main propaganda pieces against the Timzinae is that they're dragon-worshippers and traitors, while the Cult itself was designed as a weapon by a dragon itself.

Given that Inys' plan to kill Morade presumably worked, and Drakkis decided to liberate humanity rather than free her master, it stands to reason there was a period of time when either Drakkis and the remaining dragons of Inys' faction continued to cull the Cultists after Morade's death - or Drakkis joined with the Cultists to kill the dragons, and then turned on them. The death of Inys' faction of dragons and that of Morade's faction is the most interesting question to me. Morade has apparently 10,000 dragons, which was 1.333333x as large as Inys' faction. (Unless I'm misunderstanding at the word warrior-caste doesn't refer to some subsection of dragons but rather the flying-type human race.)

Here's my understanding ot the war's timeline so far:

1.Morade goes nuts

2. Morade creates the spider-plague

3. Asteril creates flying craft that human can use, the Timzinae and poison swords that kill spiders and then dies

4. Inys' faction is losing the war

5. Inys goes to sleep. Morade convinced he's won, goes home, but it turns out Inys undermined his island. Island collapses, Morade dies.

6. Spider-cult is still around at this point, because Morade was winning the war.

7. Drakkis decides to not wake Inys and start killing the leaderless dragons.

8. Drakkis' army, full of Timzinae and Culling blades, also kills the Spider-Cult.

9. Cult retreats and hides.

So, were Drakkis' flying machines enough to defeat the leaderless dragons? Did Inys' faction assist in the culling of the cultists, and were later only later betrayed by Drakkis?

[Regina]

I finished the book yesterday and loved it. The final scene certainly has me hungry for the next one.

I have to say how much I appreciate the fact that in Clara we have an older female character who is not only well written and interesting but also shown to be desirable. That is so rare that it actually took me a while to put my finger on what it was that was really speaking to me.

You are so right! How often do we see a female character who is middle aged or a little older? And when we do, they are so often the much older mystical mentor types. Clara is a refreshing change of pace, imho.

I also thought some of her internal thought processes about relationships were great because they seemed so realistic.

[Racker]

Does it mention anywhere exactly how old Clara is, and how old Dawson was? I was picturing her around late 40's, him around mid 50's to early 60's, but I'm not sure I have a basis for that visualization.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

That's probably right. Her youngest son is around 20 or so, married 2 (?) years, and she has two older ones (and a daughter)... So if she was married at 16-18, that puts her somewhere in her 40s.

Edit - I think she actually has four children total, three sons and a daughter.

[brook]

Yeah I had her somewhere in her late 40's. She's old enough that she doesn't seem to find pregnancy any sort of possibility but she couldn't be much older than 50 or so assuming she married young.

[RedEyedGhost]

I enjoyed the hell out of this book. Marcus and Kit are great together, and I, for one, like how we're not bogged down in the minutiae of all their travels. Sure, it makes it seem like things go extremely easy, but I don't need to read that.

Clara is pure win. I can't think of a single character like her, and the genre is the poorer for it.

Geder, Geder, Geder. I want to believe that Basrahip has some influence over him causing him to descend further and further, but I think that it's all Geder (other than the fact that the spider cultist forced him into the war with the Timzinae). As soon as Cithrin told Yardem they were leaving I had this horrible imagine in my mind of Geder killing her and then the series ending with Marcus killing him... I don't think that will happen, but you never know. He's out of his damn mind. Reading his pov is very interesting though, because he does seem to want to be (and thinks he is) a good person, but he just fails so spectacularly.

Wrath, I too felt that Marcus made his discoveries too easy. Both the one in the middle and the last one. Clara may end up being the star of the series, and I have enjoyed her much more than her late husband.

Polish, I also wondered where that was coming from with the Timzinae. Don't remember it.

Also, does anyone feel Vincent is a bit more than he seems right now? Something is going on there.

I liked Cithrin's story quite a bit, though it is slower.

Why do you think that? He's an extremely competent man who got cougared, by a cougar that wasn't even on the prowl.

Inys calls Marcus Wester uncorrupted, so clearly any human without spiders is uncorrupted, since he's Firstblood.

I was wanting to read the next book soon, but that last segment made me want it right now!

I think it's clear that the Timzinae were not created for 'bee-keeping' as the guide in the back of the book says, but 'spider-keeping'. Their small scales, and ability to close all their orifices prevent the spiders from entering their blood. The spiders appear to be a weapon designed by Morade, for whatever purpose. The Cult of the Spider-Goddess is anti-Timzinae for the reason that they can block their ears to their words (can close all orifices) and their scales prevent spider contamination like the dude who attacked Geder. But one of the Cult's main propaganda pieces against the Timzinae is that they're dragon-worshippers and traitors, while the Cult itself was designed as a weapon by a dragon itself.

Given that Inys' plan to kill Morade presumably worked, and Drakkis decided to liberate humanity rather than free her master, it stands to reason there was a period of time when either Drakkis and the remaining dragons of Inys' faction continued to cull the Cultists after Morade's death - or Drakkis joined with the Cultists to kill the dragons, and then turned on them. The death of Inys' faction of dragons and that of Morade's faction is the most interesting question to me. Morade has apparently 10,000 dragons, which was 1.333333x as large as Inys' faction. (Unless I'm misunderstanding at the word warrior-caste doesn't refer to some subsection of dragons but rather the flying-type human race.)

Here's my understanding ot the war's timeline so far:

1.Morade goes nuts

2. Morade creates the spider-plague

3. Asteril creates flying craft that human can use, the Timzinae and poison swords that kill spiders and then dies

4. Inys' faction is losing the war

5. Inys goes to sleep. Morade convinced he's won, goes home, but it turns out Inys undermined his island. Island collapses, Morade dies.

6. Spider-cult is still around at this point, because Morade was winning the war.

7. Drakkis decides to not wake Inys and start killing the leaderless dragons.

8. Drakkis' army, full of Timzinae and Culling blades, also kills the Spider-Cult.

9. Cult retreats and hides.

So, were Drakkis' flying machines enough to defeat the leaderless dragons? Did Inys' faction assist in the culling of the cultists, and were later only later betrayed by Drakkis?

Where's the damn "like" button!

I want answers now. :tantrum:

[Jerol]

I have both The Tyrant's Law and Abbadon Gate. I would like to invoke the summon author spell to determine which I should read first.

[DanielAbraham]

Well, you know I like 'em both, right? Hold on, I'll flip a coin.

Abaddon. Read it first. Why not?

[White Walker Texas Ranger]

Wait, it's out? I just downloaded skyrim from steam. fuck

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

I think it's out in July...

HOLY CRAP IT'S OUT NOW DOWNLOADING IMMEDIATELY

[PaulineMRoss]

I think it's out in July...

HOLY CRAP IT'S OUT NOW DOWNLOADING IMMEDIATELY

There's this really neat thing called pre-ordering. You just wake up one morning and there it is, sitting on your Kindle oozing 'read me ... read me...' vibrations. I love my Kindle.

[Jerol]

Well, you know I like 'em both, right? Hold on, I'll flip a coin.

Abaddon. Read it first. Why not?

Abaddon it is! Ty now owes you a drink for your generosity.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

Pauline - Don't like preordering. Prefer to have dictator-like control over my finances.

[Captain Sheepf*cker]

Daniel (Mr. Abraham), any idea when Abaddon's Gate will be available on audible? The site isn't showing it as an upcoming title.