NFL Thread 6. Fanatics unite!

[Rhom]

And multiple neck surgeries is bad news territory.

Amen to this.

I had a conversation about this with a patient the other day who was wearing a Colts jersey. In my seven years in practice I've had several patients who needed back/neck surgeries and I've had even more who've already had them. In my experience, if a back/neck surgery works the first time... then you really never have (the same) problems again. (Obviously... because if it did work, you wouldn't be getting a second surgery :P ) However, I've never... let me repeat that... NEVER seen a subsequent surgery with a "good" outcome.

Basically what I'm trying to get across is this: If Peyton's problem could have been fixed with surgery, it would have been with the first one. The second and third surgeries are just closing the barn door after the horses have already escaped.

I think he's done. He may not realize that and he may come back and play even above average football for a couple more years, but the Peyton Manning we all knew and loved/loved to hate is gone.

[Rockroi]

Has anyone read anything about Peyton playing again? I think it was Rockroi up above or in previous thread that said he thought Peyton was done for good.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the evolution of all this is, but I always maintained that Manning would likely come back fine.

I have read very little on Manning's injury, but that the "prognosis" was that the actual surgery Manning had was- relatively -common. It has a very strong success rate and that many (if not a vast majority) of people who have the surgery have recovered at or very close to 100%.

Now, none of those people were professional QBs (though I believe one person who commented was a pro-athlete); its relative. And yes, having neck surgery- forget about multiple neck surgeries - is never a good thing. However, the surgery itself is not in and of itself career-altering (I have no cluse if it decreases arm strength). However, what differentiates THIS injury from any other "one-season" injury? I mean, look at Brady: lost a season, he's fine. What would this injury look like IF it were just a one-time thing? I think it would look ... like this.

Frankly, I think that Peyton Manning is the QB for the Indy Colts for the foreseeable future. I think the Colts know how to keep a good thing; IIRC Jim Irsay was deeply involved with the end of the Baltimore Colts; he has learned from experience that you can piss-off a fan base almost by accident. I think the Colts are going to give Manning everything he needs to come back and be the starter for the next 3-6 seasons. I think EVEN IF they continue to "Suck for Luck" the Colts will continue to have Manning as the starter (and either trade the pick away or carry both players on the roster, the latter being unlikely given my own opinion that Manning does not want to teach his replacement).

Bottom Line: The Colts made, possibly, the greatest first round pick in sports history and they are standing by what has made their franchise relevant these last 13 seasons. They will keep Manning and will give him all he needs to continue to be their starter.

[awesome possum]

When I still paid attention to WWE a decade ago there were several wrestlers getting a similar-type of surgery done on their necks. Most were out of action for a year, but returned full strength and were able to compete for another several years.

Manning's position is not nearly as strenuous as what wrestlers do on a night-by-night basis, so I think he'll be fine as long as the surgery takes except it hasn't just been a single surgery. One surgery wouldn't be so serious. Three surgeries? Suggests something more severe may have been and may still be wrong.

[Mack Kilimaro]

I think the Colts know how to keep a good thing; IIRC Jim Irsay was deeply involved with the end of the Baltimore Colts; he has learned from experience that you can piss-off a fan base almost by accident. I think the Colts are going to give Manning everything he needs to come back and be the starter for the next 3-6 seasons. I think EVEN IF they continue to "Suck for Luck" the Colts will continue to have Manning as the starter (and either trade the pick away or carry both players on the roster, the latter being unlikely given my own opinion that Manning does not want to teach his replacement).

Does being a drunken asshole who hops around the country holding "We want the Colts!" rallies in other cities in an attempt to try to extort a new stadium out of the city of Baltimore and the state of Maryland count as pissing off a fanbase by accident? Because that's how Jim Irsay's dad rolled. I will say, from all I've seen and read of him, Jim Irsay is not his dad.

[Jaxom 1974]

Been a Pats fan since 1995 when I moved out here for college, in the Parcells-Bledsoe years. I remember crowding around a tiny little dorm TV to watch that Packers-Pats Super Bowl... Which I still say was more competitive than popular lore remembers it. The defense was good that day. They had Willie McGinest, Ty Law, and Lawyer Milloy (the original Law Firm), the playmakers for the 2001 Super Bowl defense. I also didn't think Pete Carroll was a terrible head coach but history disagrees with me there as well.

This perplexes me slightly. Where are you from originally? Was there no team near by to root for and to take that love with you when you got to college? I don't care how many Browns or Bengals games I was forced into watching when I went away to school...I wasn't going to give up on Chicago...

And I get the immersion and the adopting of the team after time. That's cool. But wasn't there another team first? How could you have abandoned them? Won't someone think of the punters???

[DanteGabriel]

This perplexes me slightly. Where are you from originally? Was there no team near by to root for and to take that love with you when you got to college? I don't care how many Browns or Bengals games I was forced into watching when I went away to school...I wasn't going to give up on Chicago...

And I get the immersion and the adopting of the team after time. That's cool. But wasn't there another team first? How could you have abandoned them? Won't someone think of the punters???

I'm from LA but I root for no LA teams, because LA sports fans are literally the worst sports fans in the world. I didn't have the prison background to make me a Raiders fan and the Rams were from Anaheim. I got the 49ers games on TV pretty regularly. Like I said, I became a football fan because my best friend in 3rd grade (and actually all the way until 10th grade when he went to a different school) was a 49er fan.

[Rhom]

This perplexes me slightly. Where are you from originally? Was there no team near by to root for and to take that love with you when you got to college? I don't care how many Browns or Bengals games I was forced into watching when I went away to school...I wasn't going to give up on Chicago...

And I get the immersion and the adopting of the team after time. That's cool. But wasn't there another team first? How could you have abandoned them? Won't someone think of the punters???

My first two years of college featured a television market of the putrid St. Louis Rams and the equally horrid Tennessee Titans... ironically, those two teams would meet in the Super Bowl during my senior year.

[Jaxom 1974]

I'm from LA but I root for no LA teams, because LA sports fans are literally the worst sports fans in the world. I didn't have the prison background to make me a Raiders fan and the Rams were from Anaheim. I got the 49ers games on TV pretty regularly. Like I said, I became a football fan because my best friend in 3rd grade (and actually all the way until 10th grade when he went to a different school) was a 49er fan.

That's fair enough I guess.

LA is kind of a sports black hole (Lakers not withstanding, but they're, well, the Lakers...)

[Rhom]

I'm from LA but I root for no LA teams, because LA sports fans are literally the worst sports fans in the world. I didn't have the prison background to make me a Raiders fan and the Rams were from Anaheim. I got the 49ers games on TV pretty regularly. Like I said, I became a football fan because my best friend in 3rd grade (and actually all the way until 10th grade when he went to a different school) was a 49er fan.

So as a native Los Angelean or Angelino or whatever it is you call yourselves... What do you think the reaction to getting a team like the Jaguars would be in LA? After the initial infatuation, would anyone even care?

We hear all this talk about the tragedy of not having the nation's most popular pro sport in the second biggest market... but is there a desire to have it there?

[Sivin]

As far as Peyton, remember, he has a nice arm but that's never been his staple. He just knows where the hole is on the defense and gets it there accurately. So it's possible that he might lose some of that strength and just end up having to be more of a 'touch' guy, and not be able to zip it into tight coverage as much as he likes to do some times. To be honest, I've been watching the Colts for years and he rarely ever tries to throw the ball more than 30-40 yards down field. He can, because he does it in Hail-Mary situations, but that's not his game.

So if he can keep his accuracy, which we know is possible because Pennington was still accurate even after he lost his velocity on the ball, then he could still (theoretically) be effective.

I think the Colts need to trade (hopefully) the Luck pick for a boatload of others. Then their offense will all get old at the same time, and they can rebuild from scratch in a few years. And during these last few years they can actually get a defense together so that they can help their future young offense. Because Reggie Wayne turns 33 pretty soon, and Dallas Clark is either 30 or 31. And those are the other two best offensive players on the team. No to mention that Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, and Gary Brackett are all in or near their 30's. And they're the only players on that defense who are worth the jerseys that they wear. And Antoine Bethea is supposed to be good, but he sure doesn't look like it this year. (Brackett isn't even all that good, either. It's more a result of the rest of the linebackers being so god-awful that they make him look halfway acceptable.)

Oh yeah, Jim Caldwell needs to go. Like, right now. And I don't know about Larry Coyer (DC), but unless he completely throws out the 'Tampa 2' bullshit, he needs to go as well.

Well, thanks, this has been Ranting About NFL Teams, with Sivin Of Pyke. Tune in next time to hear my take on the San Diego Chargers. :)

[DanteGabriel]

That's fair enough I guess.

LA is kind of a sports black hole (Lakers not withstanding, but they're, well, the Lakers...)

Oh, don't even get me started on Lakers fans. Front-running gold-plated toads... Lakers games seem to be more about being there and being seen than about actually supporting a team. Even a team of no-character no-heart whores like the Lakers.

So as a native Los Angelean or Angelino or whatever it is you call yourselves... What do you think the reaction to getting a team like the Jaguars would be in LA? After the initial infatuation, would anyone even care?

We hear all this talk about the tragedy of not having the nation's most popular pro sport in the second biggest market... but is there a desire to have it there?

Honestly, I think LA has all the pro football it needs from USC (and once upon a time, UCLA, when the rivalry was viable). LA fans will only care if the team is good, so the Jaguars and probably even the Vikings wouldn't get much interest. The Chargers are probably more viable, but who knows how long they'll be a good team?

LA is the Mecca of expatriate fans. I had a favorite sports bar (Sonny McLean's in Santa Monica) where I'd go to watch Pats games. Once Sonny's was full (for a Colts game) so I went down the block to the Eagles fans' bar and watched there. Even the Hooters on Hollywood Boulevard doubles as a Steelers fan bar. I went to a Red Sox-Angels game about five or six years ago in LA and it felt like 1/3 of the crowd was Sox fans. We got a really healthy "Yankees suck!" chant going on when we spotted a guy in a Yankee jersey moving through the aisles. Of course, the bewildered Angels fan in front of me who hadn't seen the Yankee fan just turned around and asked, "Do you guys just break into that chant at random times?"

The fact that the second biggest media market lacks an NFL team is only a tragedy to advertising execs and to the NFL owners. If I were a football fan living in LA I'd just want to get the best games on my local feed than get locked into watching the relocated Jaguars flail feebly against the Titans or something.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

God Explains Why He Let Tim Tebow Fail...

http://kissingsuzykolber.uproxx.com/2011/11/god-explains-why-he-let-tim-tebow-fail.html#more-40768

It was YOU whom I tempted with my fabled Cans of Plenty. :rofl:

[Mexal]

NFL Rookie of Month? Andy Dalton. Awesome.

[Jaime L]

It is so infuriating to me who bad the local broadcast can be (not in LA; just in general). This last week I got up on Sunday morning and checked which games were on. In the afternoon session there was both the New England v. Pittsburg game as well as the Denver v. Detroit game. Totally cool with that.

But in the morning session there was only one game on, and it was New York v. Miami. So annoying. The temptation to go to some establishment is pretty strong.

The randomness of the games we'd get locally used to piss me off (why is this shit game chosen? Why only 3 [or even 2!] games when there's four time slots? etc. etc.) it that was a time before the Red Zone Channel. Now when the Skins aren't playing I just watch whatever game Scott Hansen decides is most exciting at the moment. No commercials, constant excitement, total confidence that you're watching what you need to watch.

Fuck the networks.

Also fuck bars that treat NFL Sunday Ticket like rocket science and can't get the TVs correctly programmed to the right game. I missed the first 30 minutes of the last Redskins game because the bar manager needed to let the 1:00 games (all blowouts) run their course which is ridiculous in its own right, especially considering they had literally 40 TVs but refused to change any before the 1:00s ran their course. And then even after that, couldn't get the TVs set up on the right games. Pretty sure it's been 100 times out of 100 where when the bar fucks up and I miss the opening of the Redskins game, the team plays disastrously from then on. Kicks in the worst of my superstitious self. Everything's out of sync - I don't know how we got to this point, I don't know why so and so is injured. To a diehard, it's like coming into a David Lynch film in the middle. Someone tell me why operating NFL Sunday Ticket is so difficult for bars? Is it like taking the fucking MCAT to set up NFL Sunday Ticket?

[Kalbear]

To a diehard, it's like coming into a David Lynch film in the middle.

Trust me, it's a lot more fun than that. Unless you're comparing the second quarter of a Redskins game with lesbian action, in which case I think you're wrong.

[Manhole Eunuchsbane]

Unless you're comparing the second quarter of a Redskins game with lesbian action, in which case I think you're wrong.

Depends whether or not they're playing on turf.

[Jaime L]

Trust me, it's a lot more fun than that. Unless you're comparing the second quarter of a Redskins game with lesbian action, in which case I think you're wrong.

In that case it's more like that scene where she breaks into the house only to find the body decomposing on the bed.

[Maithanet]

Has anyone else noticed the trend this year for quarterbacks to regress? I feel like the last two years we saw Brees and Rodgers break out as superstars, doing things that before only Manning and Brady could do. The league is more and more about quarterback play. But many previously good to very good quarterbacks don't seem to be up to the challenge anymore.

Quarterbacks who have (according to me) regressed this year:

Sam Bradford

Joe Flacco

Philip Rivers

Josh Freeman

Matt Ryan

Colt McCoy

Kevin Kolb

Kyle Orton

Michael Vick

Rex Grossman

Donovan McNabb

Quarterbacks who are playing better than ever

Alex Smith

Ben Rothlisberger

Ryan Fitzpatrick

I'm sure people can debate about individual entries on the list. In some cases, injury and poor team play may be all that is neccesary to explain the qb struggles. But that's 11 of the 32 clubs that have had starters that are worse than expected at the year's beginning, and I left off a few more cases that could probably be included (KC, Miami, Seattle, Dallas, NYJ).

It is just that once teams try to install offenses that require a Top 4 quarterback, that if you don't have that guy, it all starts falling apart? Because there were a lot of teams coming into this year that didn't have a quarterback problem, and now people are starting to wonder.

[Kalbear]

Alex Smith is playing about as well in his first 7 games this year as he did in his last 10 games last year. He wasn't stellar in either case, but it's basically continued from last year.

Ben is playing about the same as he always does. People are on him for doing so well against the NE defense but with zero pass rush and a shitty, shitty secondary he still got sacked 5 times and only scored 23 points in 5 red zone appearances. Remember how bad he looked against the Ravens.

Ryan Fitzpatrick is playing about as well as a good QB in their next season would.

Kolb is playing about as well as he did in Philly and about as well as all backup QBs from Philly play once they're away from there. AJ Feeley, you're a Duck and I love you but you're not that great.

Kyle Orton is playing about as well as he did towards the end of last season.

Rex Grossman hasn't regressed at all. What?

Vick is playing about as well as he did at the end of last season. He regressed after the first few games.

Ryan is playing about as well as he did last season. He's just not that special of a QB.

So that leaves the following:

McCoy

Bradford

Flacco

Rivers

Freeman

McNabb

McNabb is just done. That happens sometimes; players hit an age value and it's boom, there ya go.

McCoy is playing meh, but he has even fewer people to throw to. It's not a good sign.

Flacco has always been streaky. Look at his performance from the first half of the Cardinals game to the second half.

Freeman is probably hitting a rookie slump of sorts.

Bradford and Rivers are harder to explain. Bradford just seems lost in the McDaniels offensive scheme, possibly because he's doing less shotgun. Rivers...there's no real reason. He's not only playing worse than last year, he's playing worse and worse as the season goes on. The typical excuse would be injury or loss of players, but he played his best last season without Gates and without his star receivers. he's a real conundrum.

[Jaime L]

Has anyone else noticed the trend this year for quarterbacks to regress? I feel like the last two years we saw Brees and Rodgers break out as superstars, doing things that before only Manning and Brady could do. The league is more and more about quarterback play. But many previously good to very good quarterbacks don't seem to be up to the challenge anymore.

Quarterbacks who have (according to me) regressed this year:

Sam Bradford

Joe Flacco

Philip Rivers

Josh Freeman

Matt Ryan

Colt McCoy

Kevin Kolb

Kyle Orton

Michael Vick

Rex Grossman

Donovan McNabb

Quarterbacks who are playing better than ever

Alex Smith

Ben Rothlisberger

Ryan Fitzpatrick

I'd argue Grossman, Vick are playing up to expectations this year. Grossman has always had stretches of atrociously "bad" Rexy and Vick is playing as well as last year, they're just scuffling more as a team due to defensive ineptness.

Throw in Rodgers, Stafford and Eli Manning playing better than ever (pretty sure none of these guys have ever had stats that match this current season) and the number of gainers and losers is close to equal.

Rivers, to me, is the one unique almost unexplainable regression. Many of the other guys just struck me as overrated compared to actual performance and the eye test to begin with (Flacco, Freeman, Bradford). Yeah they're playing a little worse than last year but I think it's a fallacy to believe that young QBs improve year after year in a steady progression, especially when they're not clear superstars.

ETA: Agree with a lot of what Kal is saying.