Supernatural

[Lord of the Night]

Supernatual is my favourite TV show, period. No other show matches it in my view, like every show its had its great episodes and its weak episodes but I think the great ones vastly outdo the weak ones. And no other show has gone so Meta and still been awesome.

Does anybody else watch Supernatural? And like me hates the Hellatus that comes around every year at this time?... especially with what happened in the last episode.

LotN

[Antonius Pius]

I like Supernatural well enough, but I like Fringe better. I'm seriously pissed it's on hiatus, with the next to last episode also postponed. No idea why the local network fucks around with it.

I watched some of the season leading up to Sam (? Jensen Ackles) being banished and then coming back. Bobby was a guilty pleasure, if only because I love Jim Beaver since Deadwood. Now I'm not sure where the storyline is at. The network keeps throwing it around, and I get hoplessly lost. I watched up to the showdown with the two angels, and then recently I saw an episode where S&D find their half-brother. Another chance to keep up next Sunday.

[LugaJetboyGirl]

I just caught up to the Season 7 mid-season break. I think the first three seasons are truly stellar tv. Really, really well-done. And while the next three seasons had some cool elements, the total 360 that they did with the storyline was not really what I was hoping for. And season 7 is not doing it for me.

I think the show has lost its hold on what made Supernatural so amazing at the beginning. I read that the fans wanted more 'brother drama' and so the writers went that direction, but I think they went too far and lost sight of what made the show special. In my view, (besides the bro-drama) Supernatural was magical because the sense of place and history was very powerfully realized, and the individual episode characters/storylines were quite compelling.

For example, there's that episode from the first season

that centers on a revival and faith healer, and contemplates who deserves to live and who doesn't. Besides the ethical question, the revival setting made it so, I don't know, so American.

Or there's that more recent episode with Trisha Helner, which had an interesting lead character and a fantastic narrative twist.

Essentially, I miss the monster-of-the-week aspect of the show, because it allowed the bros to explore moral themes, social contexts, and local histories. I miss the folk-lore and the small-towns, the tragic stories and the often bewitching characters-of-the-week. For a show that started as the quintessential American road-trip, it seems to have lost the 'American road-trip' element. There is so much American history that the writers could be mining for story ideas, but they seem to be grasping at straws instead.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely adore the show. It just makes my heart sad that, for me, the magic is gone.

[RedEyedGhost]

This season has sucked balls, and not in a good way.

LotN

Every time I see this I think Lord of the North got a non-lime cat avatar...

[Centrist Simon Steele]

The show is dead to me. I won't be going back after this mid-season break.

As already said the first three seasons were phenomenal, but that got lost in season 4, worsened in season 5, and became a train wreck in season 6. Season 7 is so bad it is embarrassing and a tarnish to the quiet legacy this show had created.

Where Sam and Dean were heading at the end of season 3, and where they ended up is just such a climactic failure of story telling I actually feel bad for the writers.

And what's up with the John Winchester hate from the writers? They act like he was a major dick (which he was) but like he has no redeemable qualities and the boys never liked him. Especially in that whole awful last episode where the Beav character was like "they're my sons!!!!!" Um, no they're not. Their dad was WAAAAAY better than you.

[LugaJetboyGirl]

As already said the first three seasons were phenomenal, but that got lost in season 4, worsened in season 5, and became a train wreck in season 6. Season 7 is so bad it is embarrassing and a tarnish to the quiet legacy this show had created.

Where Sam and Dean were heading at the end of season 3, and where they ended up is just such a climactic failure of story telling I actually feel bad for the writers.

For real. What in the hell happened? Did they get picked up by a new network, or did they lose all the original writers, or did a new boss step in, or did they just throw in the towel? I can't come up with an explanation that would adequately explain how dramatically the show has changed. It makes me afraid it is going to get cancelled.

[Alytha]

By now, I really hope it's going to get cancelled. I've compared the latest season to watching a dear beloved friend die of a slow, crippling and dementing disease, so you just want him to find peace.

I really really loved the first couple of seasons, up to the 5th, really, which, in the original producer's plan would have been the last and ended with a big bang. Insted, it's been dragged out again and again...While season 6 came together in the end in a halfway decent way, this season they really seem to be completely out of new ideas. I think every single concept we've seen so far has been used at least once before, in a better setting. Also, the Leviathan as super big bad are pretty pathetic and even they don't seem to know where they're going and what they want.

[red snow]

it's a mess nowadays. I just watch it because it's mindless monster of the week fare. There really wasn't anywhere left to go after season 5 but 6 seemed to be finding its way by the end only for it to become derailed again? Have they cut the show's budget and is that why they are jettisoning all the side cast?

[Alytha]

I think they're just running out of ideas, and above all new beasties to throw at the guys. I mean, after you've gone up against god and the heavens, what else is left?

They had the devil already, after all...

Aliens might be the next logical step...

[HyacinthGirl]

Seasons 1-5 were awesome, but it is just not the same any more. They should have concluded it at the end of season 5. Somehow I kept watching it out of devotion until the beginning of season seven but I can't stand it any more. Season 6 was only bearable because of some of the comic episodes. But now...no.

WE WANT KRIPKE BACK!

[Lord of the Night]

So much dislike... now for the rebuttal.

The show is dead to me. I won't be going back after this mid-season break.

As already said the first three seasons were phenomenal, but that got lost in season 4, worsened in season 5, and became a train wreck in season 6. Season 7 is so bad it is embarrassing and a tarnish to the quiet legacy this show had created.

Where Sam and Dean were heading at the end of season 3, and where they ended up is just such a climactic failure of story telling I actually feel bad for the writers.

And what's up with the John Winchester hate from the writers? They act like he was a major dick (which he was) but like he has no redeemable qualities and the boys never liked him. Especially in that whole awful last episode where the Beav character was like "they're my sons!!!!!" Um, no they're not. Their dad was WAAAAAY better than you.

I could not disagree more.

Season 1-3 are great of course, though the first few episodes were a bit shaky at first due to mythology needing to be worked out (I speak of the Manifested Demon and exorcism that doesn't send them back to hell in the airplane episode.) but after that it improved vastly. Season 4 only got even better with the addition of Castiel and the apocalypse, the choices that Sam and Dean made that resulted in Lucifer being freed and season 5 was even better. The only hiccup was the Anti-Christ episode, not because it wasn't good, but because it introduced an all-powerful character that couldn't appear again. Season 6 and 7 are doing quite well, a few issues to deal with but it can be done.

And Sam and Dean do love John, they've just realised his massive flaws and obsession that ended their childhood and decided their destinies as Hunters. John did the best he could but in the end he was not a great father, he was more like their leader. Bobby was more of a father to them than John was, because Bobby treated them as children and wanted them to enjoy themselves, perhaps keep them out of the life that he knows will see them dead before they are 30, rather than forge them into weapons as John did. And I don't know how its possible to hate the last episode Death's Door, its one of the show's best.

it's a mess nowadays. I just watch it because it's mindless monster of the week fare. There really wasn't anywhere left to go after season 5 but 6 seemed to be finding its way by the end only for it to become derailed again? Have they cut the show's budget and is that why they are jettisoning all the side cast?

The supporting cast are dying or fading out because that's the theme of this season. Sam and Dean being alone against the world. The Leviathans have some kind of plan and they are high in the world, Sam and Dean have literally lost everything but each other and now we have to see how they'll deal with that.

By now, I really hope it's going to get cancelled. I've compared the latest season to watching a dear beloved friend die of a slow, crippling and dementing disease, so you just want him to find peace.

I really really loved the first couple of seasons, up to the 5th, really, which, in the original producer's plan would have been the last and ended with a big bang. Insted, it's been dragged out again and again...While season 6 came together in the end in a halfway decent way, this season they really seem to be completely out of new ideas. I think every single concept we've seen so far has been used at least once before, in a better setting. Also, the Leviathan as super big bad are pretty pathetic and even they don't seem to know where they're going and what they want.

I think they're just running out of ideas, and above all new beasties to throw at the guys. I mean, after you've gone up against god and the heavens, what else is left?

They had the devil already, after all...

Aliens might be the next logical step...

I can't even fathom the idea of wanting this show to end.

Some of the concepts have been seen before yes but they are done in a new way.

The Leviathan plan is secret, but we'll find it out eventually. Once its revealed i'm sure they'll earn their place as Big Bads, I just think we need more information on what it is they are actually doing. Lucifer, Crowley and the other villain's M.O was clear as were their goals, the Leviathans are not. We just need clarity on them.

And there's plenty left for them to fight. Like the Mother of all Monsters, the New God, and now the first creatures to ever exist. There's so much folklore in the world and ideas that Sam and Dean will always have something to fight, its just that the Leviathan's haven't made their mark yet. Though they have done more damage than any other villain has, they killed Cas and Bobby, burnt Bobby's house down, forced the brother's to store the Impala away, cut off their supply lines and forced them even further off the grid. No other villain has done this kind of damage to them, not even Lucifer. Only Azazel comes close, what with killing both of their parents and many of their childhood allies and friends.

To quote Dean, "No man E.T is made of rubber, everybody knows that." There'll never be aliens in Supernatural aside from a Trickster prank or mis-direction for Faeries.

LotN

[red snow]

To be honest I thought a lot of season 5 was pretty poor aside from the actual arc episodes and the ending. Season 4 was the strongest season by far in my opinion.

I'm sure the daddy winchester hate is partly due to the fact they can't get the actor back. It makes sense to use Bobby as a band-aid but I think if they could have kept hold of the actor we would have seen him turn up more often - like he did at the end of season 2.

If the leviathans do have a plan they need to make it clear pretty soon or it's going to be as frustrating as the Cylons were. I do like how the leviathan leader looks like a Christian Bale stunt double (I refer to him as Christian Fail). So far this season though they seem to be backtracking from what was becoming an interesting avenue with Crowley, purgatory and the alpha monsters. I still think they should further mine all the mythological gods coming into play now heaven and hell is a mess and the God is AWOL - there's easily an entire season to be had from that.

[Lord of the Night]

To be honest I thought a lot of season 5 was pretty poor aside from the actual arc episodes and the ending. Season 4 was the strongest season by far in my opinion.

I'm sure the daddy winchester hate is partly due to the fact they can't get the actor back. It makes sense to use Bobby as a band-aid but I think if they could have kept hold of the actor we would have seen him turn up more often - like he did at the end of season 2.

If the leviathans do have a plan they need to make it clear pretty soon or it's going to be as frustrating as the Cylons were. I do like how the leviathan leader looks like a Christian Bale stunt double (I refer to him as Christian Fail). So far this season though they seem to be backtracking from what was becoming an interesting avenue with Crowley, purgatory and the alpha monsters. I still think they should further mine all the mythological gods coming into play now heaven and hell is a mess and the God is AWOL - there's easily an entire season to be had from that.

I don't think John would have appeared again. His story ended after Azazel died, his own vengeance was fulfilled. After that his own personal quest was done and he would have had nothing else to do, his final appearance was perfect imo. Plus his death allowed Dean to finally move on from the hero-worship he had of his father and for Sam to realise that John had problems but he wasn't completely bad, and he did love them, and tried his best with them.

Chuck will never appear again, i'd stake money on that. If God ever returned he could just solve everything and that would be poor, Cas becoming God was a much better plot-line since Cas doesn't see things the way God does, he sees them as an angel sees them. The Mother of All was a red herring to Crowley and now the whole purgatory fiasco is over, and they lost. The Leviathans do need their plan to be revealed soon, though I did find their drugging of food to make humans slothful and indolent was unnerving. Mainly because it appeared so easy for them to manipulate us like that, and remove the cannibal zombie effects and it would have been the perfect plan. Nobody would notice what the food was doing to us because nobody would care. The meaning of the Leviathan Numbers needs to be revealed, after that I think the Leviathans will be much scarier.

I think one thing that works against Leviathans is scale. Lucifer and GodCas were both colossal villains that would have completely altered the world, and made their intent to do so very clear. The Leviathans endgame is mysterious and we don't know what they are capable of beyond working in the shadows and going 21st century on Sam and Dean. I do love that about them though, they can do what Angels and Demons don't, use technology in their schemes rather than magic fuelled by souls.

LotN

[hobbleit]

I used to love Supernatural so much. I was completely addicted to it, went to conventions and everything. And I still so love seasons 1-5 but I stopped watching at the end of season 6 and haven't bothered with it since. It just doesn't have the shine anymore, which is a real shame because up until the end of season 5 it was one of my favourite TV shows ever.

[Lord of the Night]

I used to love Supernatural so much. I was completely addicted to it, went to conventions and everything. And I still so love seasons 1-5 but I stopped watching at the end of season 6 and haven't bothered with it since. It just doesn't have the shine anymore, which is a real shame because up until the end of season 5 it was one of my favourite TV shows ever.

The finale of Season 6 was one of the show's best moments. Season 7 has had a few problems but I don't see how the shine is gone.

LotN

[The GRRumbler]

It should have ended at season 5, now i just keep watching to see some monsters get their asses kicked.

[Trebla]

I watched seasons 1-6 on TNT last summer. I was ready to quit halfway through season 1 but kept watching because of the rave reviews I had read. the climax of season 2 wowed me and I was all in through season 3 to 5. But I agree the show should have ended with the main storyline at the end of season 5. It's no coincidence that the quality dipped when Eric Kripke left the show at the end of that season.

[Centrist Simon Steele]

Man I think back to that last three part arc of season 2, the severed spine, then when the finale came on with Carry on Wayward Son it just made so much sense back then.

To compare this last episode with Bobby finding meaning in his life or whatever the fuck that was, to the scenario described above is just...wrong.

[LugaJetboyGirl]

Yeah, and what the hell happened to the Classic Rock?! Season 2 had what is possibly the greatest use of Styx's 'Renegade' in the history of history.

I'd guessed Kripke possibly left thanks to some hints in the show, but I didn't realize that he actually had. That makes more sense.

I think they've fallen into the Big Bad trap, which is that they think they have to have a bigger Big Bad every season. That is just plain stupid and it got old a long time ago. I don't give a shit about the Leviathans. They can go away now. I don't want more gods either. I just want more ghost stories, and more background on the hunters, more on Sam and Dean's childhood as hunters, that sort of thing. It's not like its that fucking complicated to write interesting ghost stories. Plus, they would have so much material if they followed Gaiman's American Gods approach. But instead Leviathans? Geesh. It makes me want to go shake the writers.

Of course, if this keeps up Lord of the Night will expend all his energy trying to defend the show for pages :) So on a happier note, which episodes are everyone's favorite? There are so many good ones I'd have a hard time narrowing it down.

Are we spoilerizing things in this thread?

From the first three seasons: I loved the scarecrow episode, that shit scared the hell out of me. And there was the one about Bloody Mary and the mirror - awesome. Like I said before, I'm a big fan of the Trish Helner episode about Molly's car accident. And the first crossroads episode, mostly because I've always loved that legend.

One of my all time favorites, though, is the Christmas episode. I get a tear in my eye just thinking about it.

[Lord of the Night]

Yeah, and what the hell happened to the Classic Rock?! Season 2 had what is possibly the greatest use of Styx's 'Renegade' in the history of history.

I'd guessed Kripke possibly left thanks to some hints in the show, but I didn't realize that he actually had. That makes more sense.

I think they've fallen into the Big Bad trap, which is that they think they have to have a bigger Big Bad every season. That is just plain stupid and it got old a long time ago. I don't give a shit about the Leviathans. They can go away now. I don't want more gods either. I just want more ghost stories, and more background on the hunters, more on Sam and Dean's childhood as hunters, that sort of thing. It's not like its that fucking complicated to write interesting ghost stories. Plus, they would have so much material if they followed Gaiman's American Gods approach. But instead Leviathans? Geesh. It makes me want to go shake the writers.

Of course, if this keeps up Lord of the Night will expend all his energy trying to defend the show for pages :) So on a happier note, which episodes are everyone's favorite? There are so many good ones I'd have a hard time narrowing it down.

Are we spoilerizing things in this thread?

From the first three seasons: I loved the scarecrow episode, that shit scared the hell out of me. And there was the one about Bloody Mary and the mirror - awesome. Like I said before, I'm a big fan of the Trish Helner episode about Molly's car accident. And the first crossroads episode, mostly because I've always loved that legend.

One of my all time favorites, though, is the Christmas episode. I get a tear in my eye just thinking about it.

Yeah I wish they'd bring the classic rock back. I miss 'Back in Black' being played on the road, and the use of 'Rock of Ages' in the battle against Lucifer was brilliant.

Kripke hasn't completely left. He just isn't the showrunner anymore, but he is still a big part of the show. He wrote the Season 6 finale and he still works with Sera and the writers, he's just not in charge anymore. I would think his suggestions would carry a lot of weight though.

I don't hate the Leviathans. Not to say I love them either because they haven't given me a reason to do so yet, I liked Dick Roman's speech to Crowley about demons and his "Planet full of little engines that could" comment to Bobby. Crowley will always be my favourite villain, but I just think the Leviathans need some more time. I'd like to see Supernatural renewed for seasons 8 and 9 at the same time, that way they could plan a larger arc with a guarantee they could get it finished.

Indeed I will. :D Can hardly stand by while people say they hate my favourite show. ;)

Yeah spoilers are fine.

My favourite episodes are...

Any episode with Crowley or Death, they just own every scene they are in. Frontierland is brilliant, many shows could do this and get it wrong on all accounts, Supernatural did a really good job, loved the diseased saloon girls and the gasoline whiskey. Slash Fiction for the upheaval it brought to Sam and Dean and the coolness of them actually hunting themselves down, and Dean's desire to steal the Leviathan Impala's rims. My Bloody Valentine, though I can't watch the opening without feeling immensely sick. And No Rest For The Wicked, Dean's death was heartbreaking and I love the scene where he and Sam sing 'Dead or Alive'.

Yeah the Christmas episode was brilliant, Dean's fudging comments are hilarious.

Anyone who wants some more Monster of the Week episodes might actually be happy since the next four episodes are just that...

7.11: Adventures in Babysitting - While Dean goes after Dick Roman, Sam tries to help a girl whose father, a hunter, disappeared while investigating a truck stop.

7.12: Time after Time after Time - Dean has been sent back to 1944, while Sam teams up with an old friend to get him back. (This is the episode that stars Jason Dohring as Chronos the Grecian God of Time and

Nicholas Lea of the X-Files as G-Man Eliot Ness

.)

7.13: Knocked Up - "Lydia is in her late 20s, is striking and attractive. She picks up a man and has a sizzling one-night stand with him. But afterwards, she’s cold and indifferent — could that be because she’s part of a strange cult?” I’ve got a better question: Is the name of the man in question Sam or Dean? (Is that what you were thinking?!)"

7.14: Plucky Pennywhistle's Magic Menagerie - "During an upcoming visit to Plucky Pennywhistle’s Magical Menagerie — think Chuck-E-Cheeseminus Chuck and possibly also the cheese — the Winchesters will run afoul of an employee who comes off like Peter Pan… but underneath is probably more like Captain Hook."

They do sound quite good.

LotN