GRRM on Season 3

[oierem]

Actually, I would argue that GRRM doesn't need to rewrite the RW. Despite being a hugely important part of the books, and incredibly dramatic, it doesn't strike me as particularly expensive filming wise. So why waste your only author-penned episode of the series on something that isn't really going to change much? The Blackwater, on the other hand, has been scaled down as I understand so in that case, it was useful to keep GRRM's vision intact through the process of adapting it.

If Queenscrown is episode 7, it'd make a nice ending to the season to see Bran head through the black gate. Although we're still left with the ever looming problem of quite what Bran is going to do during Season 4/5/6, when he only has three POV chapters past the black gate I believe...

There are more characters who have the same problem. ASOS is a huge book, but not much happens to a lot of the characters!

[episodenone]

I don't know that it'll be possible to ever complete the series... you guys all seem so psyched -- but i think we may never see either the books or show end the way we want / hope.

[lokisnow]

It sounds like GRRM is writing the Queenscrown episodes.

That would put the red wedding at ep 9 or 10.

The purple wedding will probably be delayed to ep 3 or 4 of season 4, with Tyrion set up as the guy who will die in ep 9 (only to pull a fast one on the audience).

This allows us a couple things,

After the red wedding, there is a big narrative opening, very little story in the north, so an opportunity to expand the story of the south and bring in Dorne. The Dornish chapters and Oberyn should be introduced in season 4. this gives us a plot line to follow and can set up the Quentyn storyline. like the dornish 'prologue' chapters, all of the Ironborn 'prologue' chapters can be moved up into season 3 or 4 as needed to maintain continuity of the Greyjoy saga from season to season. It will be a tough juggling act, but by reducing pyke, maneuvering the Greyjoys into winterfell and then creating a greyjoy/bolton war we can handle the story of the north in a new way and still have room to include some of the Dornish machinations.

Interestingly, characters don't need to have a season long journey to meet Dany (which will cut hundreds and hundreds of pages of AFFC&ADWD in a handful of edits). and because the differences in TV versus the differences in GRRM's POV storytelling structure there is no real necessity to have people arriving at the same time or in a strict sequence. Tyrion, Victarian, Quentyn don't have to be the eyes in Mereen because the TV show allows us to have other eyes in Mereen, the equivalent of the Varys/Littlefinger new scenes. That means we can delay Tyrion's arrival if need be and accelerate someone like Quentyn to give Dany more to do. Their stories become much more flexible when freed from the book's POV structure as the show will just avoid the problem of a Meerenese knot altogether.

Season five I would expect to include the Meerenese battle ala Blackwater of season 2, and episode 9 of season 5 would be that battle and Jon's death. Episode 10 would be the mop up episode and tease the Stannis/Bolton battle (but for budgetary reasons, we wouldn't get that battle).

In any event I think by the end of Season 5 they'll have covered all five books worth of material.

[Wouter]

One scene that I think may be included after the RW - either at the end of S3 or early in S4 - is

Arya warging into Nymeria during her dreams and finding Catelyn's body, dragging it on land. In the books, it served as a cliffhanger for Catelyn's possible resurrection and it caused Arya to give up hope.

.

[protar]

It sounds like GRRM is writing the Queenscrown episodes.

That would put the red wedding at ep 9 or 10.

The purple wedding will probably be delayed to ep 3 or 4 of season 4, with Tyrion set up as the guy who will die in ep 9 (only to pull a fast one on the audience).

This allows us a couple things,

After the red wedding, there is a big narrative opening, very little story in the north, so an opportunity to expand the story of the south and bring in Dorne. The Dornish chapters and Oberyn should be introduced in season 4. this gives us a plot line to follow and can set up the Quentyn storyline. like the dornish 'prologue' chapters, all of the Ironborn 'prologue' chapters can be moved up into season 3 or 4 as needed to maintain continuity of the Greyjoy saga from season to season. It will be a tough juggling act, but by reducing pyke, maneuvering the Greyjoys into winterfell and then creating a greyjoy/bolton war we can handle the story of the north in a new way and still have room to include some of the Dornish machinations.

Interestingly, characters don't need to have a season long journey to meet Dany (which will cut hundreds and hundreds of pages of AFFC&ADWD in a handful of edits). and because the differences in TV versus the differences in GRRM's POV storytelling structure there is no real necessity to have people arriving at the same time or in a strict sequence. Tyrion, Victarian, Quentyn don't have to be the eyes in Mereen because the TV show allows us to have other eyes in Mereen, the equivalent of the Varys/Littlefinger new scenes. That means we can delay Tyrion's arrival if need be and accelerate someone like Quentyn to give Dany more to do. Their stories become much more flexible when freed from the book's POV structure as the show will just avoid the problem of a Meerenese knot altogether.

Season five I would expect to include the Meerenese battle ala Blackwater of season 2, and episode 9 of season 5 would be that battle and Jon's death. Episode 10 would be the mop up episode and tease the Stannis/Bolton battle (but for budgetary reasons, we wouldn't get that battle).

In any event I think by the end of Season 5 they'll have covered all five books worth of material.

I doubt that they'd be able to squish all of ADWD and AFFC as well as a good portion of TWOW in one season.

[Padraig]

Its very interesting that GRRM has suggested that S3 will cover around half of aSoS. Weiss was a lot vaguer in his comments. If it does cover roughly half the book then I do think S3 will end at the RW. That's already 2/3 of the way through the novel and anything beyond that would make the 1/2 the book comment unjustifable. I wouldn't try to guess what events GRRM will cover since D&D have said a number of times now that they are moving events around. We might have a better idea at the end of S2, as we'll know how far behind/ahead they are of the main aCoK plotlines.

I do like the idea of completing the KotN storyling in one season gives D&D time to introduce the larger Ironborn/Dornish stories in the following season. Although, I haven't ruled out on them cutting major storylines also. There will still be a huge number of characters in GoT.

Hard to guess what will happen with any S4 then. If they don't bring forward a lot of aDwD/aFfC then there is no way they will fit those books in any S5 (although people keep suggesting it for whatever reason).

Their stories become much more flexible when freed from the book's POV structure as the show will just avoid the problem of a Meerenese knot altogether.

The show will avoid the Meereenese knot because GRRM will have already written the optimum order of events. GRRM struggled, not just because of a lack of POVs (although, in the end, adding 1 helped him sort out the knot) but because he couldn't figure out the order of events. Tyrion is the main character who travels a lot during aDwD but I think that storyline is generally excellent, so I can't see it been significantly decreased.

Bran is not a big character in the series, so they can keep him in the background if necessary.

[DaveSumm]

After the red wedding, there is a big narrative opening, very little story in the north, so an opportunity to expand the story of the south and bring in Dorne. The Dornish chapters and Oberyn should be introduced in season 4. this gives us a plot line to follow and can set up the Quentyn storyline. like the dornish 'prologue' chapters, all of the Ironborn 'prologue' chapters can be moved up into season 3 or 4 as needed to maintain continuity of the Greyjoy saga from season to season. It will be a tough juggling act, but by reducing pyke, maneuvering the Greyjoys into winterfell and then creating a greyjoy/bolton war we can handle the story of the north in a new way and still have room to include some of the Dornish machinations.

This, my good sir, makes a lot of sense. Part of the problem with aFfC is the sudden, jarring introduction of so many new plots which take up half the book. If the series can soften this blow with a more gradual introduction then all the better. We would have far more invested in Oberyn by the time he comes to play his part if we follow him all the way from Dorne, and we could even meet Doran and Quentyn before Oberyn leaves, which would set the scene for the next season. Of all the extra POV chapters in Feast/Dance, I think Quentyn's is one the better ones so if they cast someone engaging enough that could be a really successful arc. You could maybe end Season 4 with Doran learning of Oberyn's fate, and sending Quentyn off.

[lokisnow]

I figure a Doran, Oberyn, Quentyn scene (like the Cersei/Jaime scene in Kings Landing in ep 101) would be a good way to introduce Dorne in episode one of season 4. This could also send both Oberyn and Quentyn off on their respective journeys. I presume that the Kingsmoot issues will be brought forward into Season 3 to keep the Greyjoy story alive, so if all that plot is taken care of, you can cut from the Doran Oberyn Quentyn scene to a Euron, Aeron/Victarion, Asha/Yara scene where they do the same. Euron sends Victarion and Asha off. Then cut to Cersei saying how stupid people are to believe that dragons have returned.

[WinterWarrior]

Season 3 has to end with the RW. It is typical of HBO shows to end with a cliffhanger like that, then everyone who has not read the books will run out and get them to find out what happens. HBO's Boardwalk Empire ends with bloody final episodes each year that keep the audience hanging; Rome did too. The last episode has to keep us hanging.

The episodes do not need to follow the sequence of Book 3....parts and stories can be moved up and around. But the RW has to be Episode 10. And then they better have a Season 4.....(fingers crossed). We have to have something to keep us engaged until GRRM gets the next book out!

[Été]

Joining the consensus that Season 3 ends with the RW, leaving the PW and Tyrion's trial as setpieces for Season 4.

And if episode 10 is the Red Wedding, then 'Autumn Storms' will probably come straight after Sansa's wedding to Tyrion. TBH ASoS is pretty much one "good bit" after another so it's hard to pick out obvious scenes here (e.g. Jon scaling the Wall, Tywin unveiling Oathkeeper), but my money's on Beric vs Hound happening in this one, and the episode closing with the mutiny against Mormont.

[Opkio]

I dont know f this has been asked before, prollyit has, but i was wondering how is HBO going o deal with the character ages, regarding Bran, Rickon, Sansa, Tommen, etc. in the books the characters only age if i am not mistaken 1 year, however, in real life they will age approximately 4-5 years until book 5. How is HBO going to deal with the fact that bran may or may not grow too fast in real life, for example. I mean it is going to look weird for Hodor to be carrying around a teenager instead of a kid. Anyone has any ideas?

[Francis Buck]

I dont know f this has been asked before, prollyit has, but i was wondering how is HBO going o deal with the character ages, regarding Bran, Rickon, Sansa, Tommen, etc. in the books the characters only age if i am not mistaken 1 year, however, in real life they will age approximately 4-5 years until book 5. How is HBO going to deal with the fact that bran may or may not grow too fast in real life, for example. I mean it is going to look weird for Hodor to be carrying around a teenager instead of a kid. Anyone has any ideas?

There's not much they can but simply work around it. Honestly, in most cases (primarily Arya) I think it actually works better. The only one I can see being an issue is, as you said, Hodor. How they'll get around that, I do not know. Perhaps they'll just have bran riding a horse or mule with his special saddle on, and Hodor will only carry him on certain occasions. It's hard to say, but I'm sure they'll think of something (I mean they kinda have to).

[AegonTheUnlikely]

Bran shouldn't be that hard to work around.

Once you get far enough into AFfC/aDwD material, he really just sits there.

otherwise, I think doing aSoS over 20 episodes would stretch it out too much. More like 15 +/- 1 episodes, and the remainder for the Crows/Dragons mix. Certain events need to take place in a set order, but the show has a fair amount of latitude to rearrange the order of the telling.

[The Anti-Targ]

You can't end a season on a downer. S1 ended with the birth of the Dragons, S2 final scene will end with something good either for Robb or Dany. S3 will also end with something good for someone: Jon or Dany most likely. RW, like the death of Ned, will be in Ep9 I would think. Though if they want to kick viewers in the guts, but then give them something to feel good about they'll do RW in Ep8 and PW in Ep9 or even 1st half of Ep10.

[The Bastard of Bolton]

Anyone know if we have to wait a year between each season?

That is just damned brutal and always puts consistent casting at risk because actors need to make a living and can often fall into new contracts.

Also the events of season 3 and 4 are on the exact same timeline but when you split seasons people will inevitably look different. Just look at the difference between the Yoren who rescued Arya at the end of season 1 compared to his look in episode 2. Or think of how weird it will look if there is a scene at the end of season 3 with Arya that segways with a scene in season 4 and she undergoes a growth spurt during the time off.

[Guest]

There are more characters who have the same problem. ASOS is a huge book, but not much happens to a lot of the characters!

That's exactly what I've been thinking. It's an issue of huge scope but little advancement in each POV. Splitting book 3 exactly in half doesn't make sense to me. You could finish Arya's ASOS arc in 10 episodes, easy, but you have 15 other characters to focus on as well, so I wonder if they will slow it down to a snail's pace (ugh). If the RW happens at the end of Season 3, would she spend most of her entire time in S3 with the BwoB, then set sail in S4?

[Thaune]

IMO, RW happens in episode 9, and gives the viewers at least some hope in episode 10 that the North still lives and breathes.

If it happens in episode 10, you might see a lot of discouraged viewers just pissed that their favorite characters got whacked.

[oierem]

That's exactly what I've been thinking. It's an issue of huge scope but little advancement in each POV. Splitting book 3 exactly in half doesn't make sense to me. You could finish Arya's ASOS arc in 10 episodes, easy, but you have 15 other characters to focus on as well, so I wonder if they will slow it down to a snail's pace (ugh). If the RW happens at the end of Season 3, would she spend most of her entire time in S3 with the BwoB, then set sail in S4?

It's exactly as you say, the book is huge but the numer of chapters per character is not very different from the previous ones.

Well, I trust the producers, and I really hope that Season 3 will contain MOST of ASOS, at least for many characters, and Season 4 will mix the reminder of ASOS with AFFC/DWD.

I mean, Dany is still totally isolated from anyone else, Arya is still on the run without getting anywhere, Bran just travels north.... IMO, it would have worked much better as a 14-episode season, but....

[oierem]

Episode 8 would be a much better place for the RW, in my opinion, because it will be unexpected. In the books it works because it happens in the second act, and you don't expect anything big to happen at that point! But placing a big event in Episode 9 will be predictable by season 3, I'm afraid.

[Marv]

I also think that RW will happen earlier. It is not really a good cliffhanger making people eager to watch a potential season 4.

My personal favorite for the big bang at the end of season 3 would be Joff's wedding because it raises a lot of questions.

However, since it is too late in the book, it is unlikely that will be shown in season 3.

The nice thing ist still that the remaining books are written in a way that makes it more and more difficult to convert them directly to the screen. To many storylines and too many antagonists. Most of all, everybody's favorite character won't appear in book 4.

They will have to be more creative in the conversion of the major storyline which makes the whole thing more exciting for people knowing the books.

Maybe they take some of the plot from ASOS to enrich the content of AFFC with a Dany, Jon and Tyrion storyline in a potential season 4.