GRRM on Season 3

[PatrickStormborn]

I'm still not sure if I like ASOS being split in half. A huge amount happens in ASOS, I agree ... but it works as one huge book. As others have said, there are a huge number of chapters but there isn't a lot of advancement in the first half -- particularly with Stannis, Mel and Davos, who pretty much disappear until they show up to help the Night's Watch.

Personally I would have liked a twelve episode season ending with the Purple Wedding and Sansa's escape, but I know that would have been almost impossible.

[Loras]

I'm still not sure if I like ASOS being split in half. A huge amount happens in ASOS, I agree ... but it works as one huge book. As others have said, there are a huge number of chapters but there isn't a lot of advancement in the first half -- particularly with Stannis, Mel and Davos, who pretty much disappear until they show up to help the Night's Watch.

I disagree, I think that Season 3 will be one of the more tightly plotted seasons of the show. It really will be the season of the Starks! I think that Queenscrown will occur at the end of the season, Jon has a lot to do otherwise! His arc for Season 3 would be Wildling-Jon and his arc for Season 4 would be "The wall is mine"-Jon.

If Cat's storyline after the RW is going to make the cut, then she will have to appear in the final Episode of Season 3 - this would resolve any kind of conflict with contracts etc. I also think that it is a moment of hope - I use the term hope loosely - that the bad guys will get their cummupance.

The King in the North subplot, Jon with the Wildlings, the Sack of Winterfell - will all be S3.

As for Dorne, I don't think that the subplot with crowning Myrcella will make the cut. I think that we will see the Dornish as and when we need them, such as Oberyn in King's Landing and Quentyn in Meereen. They can do the exposition about the other characters then.

I do think that the Iron Islands will be included and that Asha's role will be expanded. The King's Moot is quite important in establishing a number of important storylines - particularly tying the main plot back to Danerys.

[boojam]

Anyone know if we have to wait a year between each season?

That is just damned brutal and always puts consistent casting at risk because actors need to make a living and can often fall into new contracts.

I don't think there is anyway to avoid that. I think it takes almost 5 to 6 months of production and post production to produce 10 episodes for S2. Now D&D say they can handle only 10 episodes, and I am sure that's true... but it must be economics that dictates that. I get the impression that HBO can only venture , say, around 60 million a season, a lot of money for them to put on the line.

I can only speculate about HBO's profit, the Financial Times said , months ago, HBO had really improved their non USA - Canada distribution. I have never heard what the final take was last season, maybe only HBO knows.

(We are not even talking DVD and other related revenue.)

(World wide , in the film world, some action (heavy CFX) movies have made way more than domestic US release, even some flops in the US have made a world wide profit! John Carter which went right in the toilet here is the US , a 250 m film made 68 m domestically, has made 195 m rest of the world giving it a combined total of about 263 m now, thats going to make it break even, which actually is not good for Disney, but better than a total loss.)

I bring this up because I made the guess that world wide HBO had made enough to green light both seasons 3 and 4,but that did not happen , so I don't know.

I think back to back season production would require HBO to have either tripled or more their investment, which I don't think happened.

Actors contract conflicts can be fixed if there is enough money to buy out other commitments but I don't think GOT's pockets are that deep now.

One thing D&D say, 10 episodes is all they can do a season, but that's with the production staff they have , that is indeed large, but if HBO suddenly became Daddy Warbucks, another , say, 40 m, wisely spent, could buy one 12 episodes. I think it would mean adding more line producers and boots on the ground , good teleplay writers can be found. I just sort of doubt that , I don't know maybe D&D are afraid of loosing artistic control, tho that too can be managed.

If things cut the right way it's gonna be fun but excruciating to hold your potato year after year, this could go on for 7 more years! Some people may go mad!

Note added: People can speculate on how CoK and SoS will be adapted, but don't beat your head on the wall too much about it, a lot of structuring to be done by D&D , there sure is plenty of material , just in books 2 and 3 for seasons 3,and 4 without touching books 4 and 5, tho some major rework for 4 and 5 stands in the future.

[The Monkey]

Maybe they take some of the plot from ASOS to enrich the content of AFFC with a Dany, Jon and Tyrion storyline in a potential season 4.

To do it any other way would be madness, methinks.

[oierem]

I disagree, I think that Season 3 will be one of the more tightly plotted seasons of the show. It really will be the season of the Starks! I think that Queenscrown will occur at the end of the season, Jon has a lot to do otherwise! His arc for Season 3 would be Wildling-Jon and his arc for Season 4 would be "The wall is mine"-Jon.

If Cat's storyline after the RW is going to make the cut, then she will have to appear in the final Episode of Season 3 - this would resolve any kind of conflict with contracts etc. I also think that it is a moment of hope - I use the term hope loosely - that the bad guys will get their cummupance.

The King in the North subplot, Jon with the Wildlings, the Sack of Winterfell - will all be S3.

As for Dorne, I don't think that the subplot with crowning Myrcella will make the cut. I think that we will see the Dornish as and when we need them, such as Oberyn in King's Landing and Quentyn in Meereen. They can do the exposition about the other characters then.

I think a whole season of Jon with the Wildlings is not a great act at all (I mean, it's not much for 10 episodes). At the very least, we should see the Death of Ygritte.

Why do you think the Sack of Winterfel is in S3? Almost certainly it will happen in Season 2, as it should be.

[AegonTheUnlikely]

I think a whole season of Jon with the Wildlings is not a great act at all (I mean, it's not much for 10 episodes). At the very least, we should see the Death of Ygritte.

Why do you think the Sack of Winterfel is in S3? Almost certainly it will happen in Season 2, as it should be.

They haven't cast a Ramsay, or either of the Reeds. Episode 8 this year is titled "the Prince of Winterfell" which sounds to me like Theon sneaking in during the night to wake Bran. My guess is they cut the Ramsay and the Reeds from this season; the idea of killing the miller's boys will be Theon's alone. That probably happens in episode 9. Episode 10, Cat hears and lets Jamie go with Alton Lannister (formerly known as Cleos Frey) and Brienne, to begin their own adventures on the Trident. The manner of Ramsay's betrayal isn't as important as the fact of it happening. He can show up, the added strength being what pushes Theon to accept Maester Leywin's offer to take the black. When the gates open, Ramsay betrays Ser Rodrick, puts Winterfell to the torch, and makes off with Theon to start the process of turning him into Reek. It might not work as well if we aren't previously introduced to the Ramsay as the ersatz Reek- but only just. The net result is the same. The Reeds come on WInterfell after the Bolton forces are gone, as Bran&Co. are emerging from the crypts. Osha takes Rickon, Bran goes with the Reeds and Hodor.

[David Selig]

I dont know f this has been asked before, prollyit has, but i was wondering how is HBO going o deal with the character ages, regarding Bran, Rickon, Sansa, Tommen, etc. in the books the characters only age if i am not mistaken 1 year, however, in real life they will age approximately 4-5 years until book 5. How is HBO going to deal with the fact that bran may or may not grow too fast in real life, for example. I mean it is going to look weird for Hodor to be carrying around a teenager instead of a kid. Anyone has any ideas?

Actually almost 3 years passed between AGOT and the end of ADWD. Not such a big difference, plus they've aged most characters in the TV series from the start.

[protar]

They haven't cast a Ramsay, or either of the Reeds. Episode 8 this year is titled "the Prince of Winterfell" which sounds to me like Theon sneaking in during the night to wake Bran. My guess is they cut the Ramsay and the Reeds from this season; the idea of killing the miller's boys will be Theon's alone. That probably happens in episode 9. Episode 10, Cat hears and lets Jamie go with Alton Lannister (formerly known as Cleos Frey) and Brienne, to begin their own adventures on the Trident. The manner of Ramsay's betrayal isn't as important as the fact of it happening. He can show up, the added strength being what pushes Theon to accept Maester Leywin's offer to take the black. When the gates open, Ramsay betrays Ser Rodrick, puts Winterfell to the torch, and makes off with Theon to start the process of turning him into Reek. It might not work as well if we aren't previously introduced to the Ramsay as the ersatz Reek- but only just. The net result is the same. The Reeds come on WInterfell after the Bolton forces are gone, as Bran&Co. are emerging from the crypts. Osha takes Rickon, Bran goes with the Reeds and Hodor.

I don't think it'll happen like that. I'm fairly sure that the sack will be in episode 10 of S2. I thinking E7 will involve Theon taking Winterfell, then E8 will be Bran's "escape", the killing of the miller's boy and Jaime's release. Then in E9 we have a brief scene with Theon and Luwin revealing that Bran and Rickon are still alive, and E10 is the sack of Winterfell. We don't really need Ramsay on screen, we could have Theon striking up a raven corespondance, then we just get the bolton forces coming without Ramsay. And Bran and co. can meet the Reeds on the road in like S3 E2.

[The hairy bear]

Some posters speculated that Ramsay and Roose might have been merged in one character and I can see it working. Episode 7 has Theon taking Winterfell. Since Robb is fighting in the West (or at least the west of the Riverlands), he sens Bolton to the North from Harrenhal, which is closer. By episode 10 Roose arribes there to help Rodrik, but betrays him, kills him, and burns the castle.

For the therd season he can have returned to the Riverlands and explain that when he arribed there the Ironborn had already burned it all.

[Blutrabe]

The only one I can see being an issue is, as you said, Hodor. How they'll get around that, I do not know. Perhaps they'll just have bran riding a horse or mule with his special saddle on, and Hodor will only carry him on certain occasions. It's hard to say, but I'm sure they'll think of something (I mean they kinda have to).

They can work around it by simply showing only close-up shots of Hodor and Bran.

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I think S3 will end with the RW. I can picture the very last shot of the season:

A knife to Catelyn's throat - camera pans up to her face - slitting sound - cut to black.

Jon will leave the wildlings, Arya is being taken by Sandor Clegane and Bran steps through the Black Gate (I mean, Hodor steps through... erm whatever).

Then S4 will have the battle of Castle Black and the election of the Lord Commander. Oberyn will be introduced at the beginning of S4, Joff's wedding will take place about halfway through the season and the remainder will be about Tyrion's trial.

---

Some posters speculated that Ramsay and Roose might have been merged in one character and I can see it working. Episode 7 has Theon taking Winterfell. Since Robb is fighting in the West (or at least the west of the Riverlands), he sens Bolton to the North from Harrenhal, which is closer. By episode 10 Roose arribes there to help Rodrik, but betrays him, kills him, and burns the castle.

For the therd season he can have returned to the Riverlands and explain that when he arribed there the Ironborn had already burned it all.

Yes, that could work. I don't think Roose Bolton needs to be present at the RW.

[Leuf]

Some posters speculated that Ramsay and Roose might have been merged in one character and I can see it working. Episode 7 has Theon taking Winterfell. Since Robb is fighting in the West (or at least the west of the Riverlands), he sens Bolton to the North from Harrenhal, which is closer. By episode 10 Roose arribes there to help Rodrik, but betrays him, kills him, and burns the castle.

But in the show Robb didn't divide his forces as in the book. He only sent 2000 men to hold off Tywin on a suicide mission and took everything else. So Roose isn't at Harenhall with any of his men. Unless Robb divides his forces during season 2 so he can go west, but Roose can really be anywhere at this point. He could be at Moat Cailin or the Dreadfort just as easily.

[protar]

Some posters speculated that Ramsay and Roose might have been merged in one character and I can see it working. Episode 7 has Theon taking Winterfell. Since Robb is fighting in the West (or at least the west of the Riverlands), he sens Bolton to the North from Harrenhal, which is closer. By episode 10 Roose arribes there to help Rodrik, but betrays him, kills him, and burns the castle.

For the therd season he can have returned to the Riverlands and explain that when he arribed there the Ironborn had already burned it all.

I hope that doesn't happen. I think it would ruin the dynamic of those two characters, and it would mean a lot of Roose jumping about. Would it really be so hard for them to introduce Ramsay in season 3, or even in season 5?

[boojam]

But in the show Robb didn't divide his forces as in the book. He only sent 2000 men to hold off Tywin on a suicide mission and took everything else.

I don't believe that's true, we see the start of it and the end of it, with Tyrion getting knocked down and then Tywin talking about, later Robb mentions it. The battle itself is just not on screen. Episode 9 isn't it?

[Leuf]

I don't believe that's true, we see the start of it and the end of it, with Tyrion getting knocked down and then Tywin talking about, later Robb mentions it. The battle itself is just not on screen. Episode 9 isn't it?

I was confused about it myself at first because I thought show Robb's strategy was stupid, but if you completely turn off your book knowledge and just use what is shown you see that 1) All of Robb's forces cross at the twins. 2) Tywin and Jaime are on the same side of the river 3) Robb sends 2000 men to keep Tywin occupied while the majority of his forces attack Jaime (it makes no difference if there's a separate whispering woods battle first, just that Jaime is captured and his forces defeated)

Tywin explicitly says that they only fought 2000 men and that Robb's other 18,000 must be with Robb, and Robb explicitly says that he sent 2000 men to die.

Edit: Incidently, if Roose was the commander of those 2000 men then he has a pretty good reason to turn on Robb who sent him to die.

[skins7778]

I cant see them ending season 3 with the RW, I think it will probably be in episode 9. I see 10 being Jons return to castle black and the battle with the Thenns at the base of the wall. I think the final scene of the season will be Mance's huge host just outside the wall as Jon reaches the top and see's what he's up against.

I hope there will be some mammoth/ giants too...... epic.

[oierem]

I don't think it'll happen like that. I'm fairly sure that the sack will be in episode 10 of S2. I thinking E7 will involve Theon taking Winterfell, then E8 will be Bran's "escape", the killing of the miller's boy and Jaime's release. Then in E9 we have a brief scene with Theon and Luwin revealing that Bran and Rickon are still alive, and E10 is the sack of Winterfell. We don't really need Ramsay on screen, we could have Theon striking up a raven corespondance, then we just get the bolton forces coming without Ramsay. And Bran and co. can meet the Reeds on the road in like S3 E2.

The Sack of Winterfel WILL happen in Episode 10 this season, because there is absolutely no reason to push it back:it works as the ending of Theon's arc his season, and you can't split it. The theory that it's being pushed back to season 3 is based only in the lack of Ramsa.

According to summaries, Theon should take Winterfel in episode 6, goes "hunting" in 7 (for bran and rickon) and is trying to hold the fort in E.8. He won't be part of ep.9 and the Sack will logically happen in Ep.10.

So, that whole story will be played this season. Plus, we will probably see the WW attacking the Night's Watch, Davos recued and arrested, Jaime and Brienne on their journey, plus Robb's love story, at the very least. So, there goes about 10% of ASOS. ;)

[Red Wedding]

I hope the RW takes place in ep 7 to be even more unexpected for non-readers but I highly doubt it.

The books are GRRM's work.

The TV show belongs to D&D.

The RW is THE scene, (not only) D&D's favourite scene but really a scene that -if done right- can make TV history. It's not GRRM's task to write this episode. It has to be D&D if they want to take the credits for the series because this scene is one of the biggest challenges and will ultimately prove whether D&D have succeeded in terms of adapting the books into a TV show.

There is just no reason why GRRM would write this episode, really.

By the way, I still hope GRRM gets a cameo in the RW, he should be one of the Lannisters or Freys.

[Padraig]

Plus, we will probably see the WW attacking the Night's Watch, Davos recued and arrested, Jaime and Brienne on their journey, plus Robb's love story, at the very least. So, there goes about 10% of ASOS. ;)

Hardly. :)

Robb's love story doesn't happen in aSoS. It happens in aCoK, we just don't see it. We might see the other incidents in season 2 but 4 chapters is far from 10% of the book. And D&D have said that they have held back some of aCoK into S3, so that might balance those few chapters.

I wouldn't rule out delaying the Sack of Winterfell into S3 also. I'm not positive either way but the summaries don't suggest anything definite. "Hunts" may not be what we think. We know something will be delayed, so you have to pick something!

Similarly, not sure about the timing of the RW. E10 or E9 with a major reworking of the sequence of events.

They can't show Jon facing Mance since that is well past half way through the book.

Would it really be so hard for them to introduce Ramsay in season 3, or even in season 5?

They can still introduce Ramsay in a later season but have Roose fulfill his role right now.

Roose has to go South to meet Jaime though.

. But yes, i'd rather Roose didn't wander around so much.

I don't agree with this idea that the climax of a season should happen around E7. A season should build up to the climax. Having it happen in E7 would defeat the purpose of a climax. E9 or E10 are the only two viable options. You might surprise somebody if it happens earlier but you could end up with a lame last 3 episodes, which is hardly how you want to end your season.

[So1ar]

I belief Rw is the season final, a great cliffhanger. The last picture will be the end of Robb. So they can make Joffrey wedding in the first four episodes of season 4

that can't be the final scene. no one is going to come back with Robb dead and Joffrey still king. think how we all felt when reading the book. pure rage. luckily we had the rest of the book to read to find out how it ends. the tv audience would be forced to wait an entire year.

[oierem]

Hardly. :)

Robb's love story doesn't happen in aSoS. It happens in aCoK, we just don't see it. We might see the other incidents in season 2 but 4 chapters is far from 10% of the book. And D&D have said that they have held back some of aCoK into S3, so that might balance those few chapters.

I don't agree with this idea that the climax of a season should happen around E7. A season should build up to the climax. Having it happen in E7 would defeat the purpose of a climax. E9 or E10 are the only two viable options. You might surprise somebody if it happens earlier but you could end up with a lame last 3 episodes, which is hardly how you want to end your season.

-The thing about the RW is that, as written in the books, it's not the climax at all. It's the event that ends the second acts and begins the third ;)

-Even though Robb's story happens in ACOK off-page, it's implications aren't discussed until ASOS, whereas in the series, they will discuss them in S2. So, the basics of his story will be covered.

Anyway, it may not be a 10% , but it's a big part of the book that does't need to be covered in Season 3!

-When they say certain book 2 events will happen in S3, I think they're referring to characters who will appear (Reeds, Tullys), not actual scenes, because I can't think of anything! (expect perhaps danny's last scene of ACOK)