The Progressive Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Scot,I really don't have a problem with the government using the military to suppress treasonous forces looking to disenfranchise US citizens of their rights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horus Ex Machina Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Al Franken was able to get elected. I would like to see McConnell lose his seat.Just barely. It's easier to get such people elected in a wave election like 2006 or 2008 or if it's a third party candidate in a state without an automatic runoff. Unless you're in California, most states tend to view celebrity candidates, or their relatives skeptically.This was surprising! I bet that if the other woman is also an CIA employee then it might get even juicier.Assuming that you're talking about Gen. Patraeus, they've already confirmed that she was neither a member of the military nor a CIA employee, both of which (had she been in his chain of command which would have been almost certain) would have been criminal violations under the UCMJ. The primary gist of the investigation was whether or not he was compromised through her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Lev,You certianly have no problem with hypothetical US hypocrisy if it reincorporates Texas by force after a supermajorty votes to leave.Can you go into detail about the supposed hypocrisy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Undead Martyr Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Secession is a dangerous game to play, and, frankly, all it would do is require an EU type scenario for Texas-US borders and business.Are they going to have their own money? How will they get their food, water or oil? What about transportation, communications, legal standards, oil pipelines, drivers licenses... it would also be highly problematic in regards to coastal waters etc. And what about environmental protection? We can (or should) sue them if they fuck up the gulf.In short, Texas would have all the laws and standards and for all intents and purposes remain economically integrated with the US. Only it would have additional difficulties with imports-exports, fewer rights if/when the US decides to raise tariffs, and would probably be fucked over if/when the US moves away from oil. Also, they'd have to solve the immigration "problem" on their own. That fence proposal is impractical and prohibitively expensive. Perhaps they'll invade Mexico? Heh. And of course the whites would face similar concerns over losing their majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Progressive Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Well you gotta ask this question .............. what is the new country of Texas gonna do with all those millions of US citizens who still live in Texas and didn't want to split? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Well you gotta ask this question .............. what is the new country of Texas gonna do with all those millions of US citizens who still live in Texas and didn't want to split? Apparently you're ok with putting them to death, so that's one route they could go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimlessgun Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Dual citizenship for everyone!I mean, in this scenario we're assuming that post-secession Texas acts as a reasonable first world democracy, and that the lives of the people who didn't want seccession won't markedly change anyways.If Texas decided to go completely nuts and turned into a fascist dictatorship that herded all the latinos into concentration camps for mass deportation, the argument for reconquest based on protecting US citizens is easily made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Sciborg,HowMany secessions has the US endorsed over the last twenty years?Lev,There are US ex pate living all over the world. How are US citizens living in the hypothetical "Republic of Texas" problematic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Progressive Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Lev,There are US ex pate living all over the world. How are US citizens living in the hypothetical "Republic of Texas" problematic?Scot,American ex-pats living abroad are overwhelmingly due to their choice.That's not the case here.Do you think the new country of Texas would favor mass deportation or concentration camp for those who aren't willing to go along with treason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimlessgun Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Small groups of expats is not comparable to millions of people. I don't know of any foreign country whos major cities have a majority US citizen population (likely the case if Texas seceded). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trebla Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 The plot thickens with the General Petraeus resignation...http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/11/09/15056607-petraeus-biographer-paula-broadwell-under-fbi-investigation-over-access-to-his-email-law-enforcement-officials-sayThe biographer for resigning CIA Director David Petraeus is under FBI investigation for improperly trying to access his email and possibly gaining access to classified information, law enforcement officials told NBC News on Friday.Paula Broadwell is the author of Petraeus' biography, "All In." She had extensive access to Petraeus in Afghanistan and has given numerous television interviews speaking about him.Petraeus resigned Friday, citing an extramarital affair. The woman involved was not identified.The law enforcement officials said they do not believe the FBI investigation will result in any criminal charges. They also stressed that Petraeus is not under investigation.The CIA declined all comment on the case. Broadwell could not be reached for comment.Broadwell's Twitter account describes her as a national security analyst and Army veteran. A biography on her website says she is married to a radiologist and has two children, both boys. The family lives in Charlotte, N.C. The biography says she is a West Point graduate and a research associate at Harvard University's Center for Public Leadership and a doctoral candidate in the Department of War Studies at King's College London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Progressive Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Apparently you're ok with putting them to death, so that's one route they could go.Ah, I see that you've opted for concentration camp scenario for those who won't go along with treason.Not too sure that they'll go along quietly though ............ we know how Texans love their guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Do you think the new country of Texas would favor mass deportation or concentration camp for those who aren't willing to go along with treason?Or the US could just give them dual citizenship. You're getting very melodramatic over this, it's not like numerous countries haven't become independent from their previous country/empire etc in the past. It happens sometimes, like for example the US. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tormund Ukrainesbane Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Do you think the new country of Texas would favor mass deportation or concentration camp for those who aren't willing to go along with treason? I guess the South Sudanese are lucky you didn't have any input on their succession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoë Sumra Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 succession.Secession, guys. Secession.[/spelljack]What's the logic behind the suggestion of Texas using force to prevent people who wanted to remain US citizens from leaving the Lone Star Republic? It wouldn't seem to be in Texan interests to keep a lot of unhappy citizens inside.(Please no one mention Northern Ireland.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Small groups of expats is not comparable to millions of people. I don't know of any foreign country whos major cities have a majority US citizen population (likely the case if Texas seceded).Every citizen of the Republic of Ireland is still free to vote in elections in the UK because they were basically given the option to continue being a British citizen if they wanted after Irish independence. I don't see why the US couldn't do something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Progressive Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Or the US could just give them dual citizenship.What make you think that those people would willingly went along with that? In other words, why would Americans who are already living in Texas went willingly along with the imposed dual citizenship which means that they now must be subjected to the jurisdiction of another sovereign state against their will? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Lev,What happened to the 45% of Montengrans who voted to remain part of Serbia? Concentration camps? When Czechoslovakia broke up lots of concentration camps there too? Seperation does not inevitably lead to violence. However, if the US government takes the smug bloodly justified postion you seem to favor I would see violence as saddly inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ljkeane Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 What make you think that those people would willingly went along with that? In other words, why would Americans who are already living in Texas went willingly along with the imposed dual citizenship which means that they now must be subjected to the jurisdiction of another sovereign state against their will?I imagine the loyalists during the American Revolution weren't too happy with being subject to another sovereign state against their will, the same as the people against independence with any country that becomes independent. It happens. :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Progressive Posted November 9, 2012 Share Posted November 9, 2012 Seperation does not inevitably lead to violence. Unfortunately, the history of the United States is vastly different than Sudan et al and separation did led to massive bloodshed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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