R+L=J v.40

[Jon Icefyre]

Just drop everything that doesn't have a hint from the books. We don't want to write what could have happened, we are collecting what we know happened, as told by GRRM. Postulating complete scenarios that don't agree with known facts is not getting anywhere, quickly.

Amen

[GillyTarly]

There are still holes in the timeframe. Especially when Lyanna was pregnant to the time of birth. Inbetween birth of the child (Jon?) to the time of death. I'm wondering how Ned knew about the tower. I think someone sent Ned a letter about Lyanna.

[MtnLion]

corbon, were you referring to Harrenhal occurring late in the year? The year of the false spring has always conjured up a spring time break from winter to me. It could have warmed up late in the year, and clamped down to an impassable winter shortly later. I count winter as more than snow in the north, since we know it snows in the north during the "summer". I count it as snows in the south, too. It is snowing in King's Landing, right now (ADwD).

As for the betrothals they are announced at some point, and Catelyn recalls that Littlefinger challenged Brandon as soon as he heard.

[Techelles]

Just drop everything that doesn't have a hint from the books. We don't want to write what could have happened, we are collecting what we know happened, as told by GRRM. Postulating complete scenarios that don't agree with known facts is not getting anywhere, quickly.

For the love of gods, yes.

[MtnLion]

There are still holes in the timeframe. Especially when Lyanna was pregnant to the time of birth. Inbetween birth of the child (Jon?) to the time of death. I'm wondering how Ned knew about the tower. I think someone sent Ned a letter about Lyanna.

I think that he was following the Kingsguard, now. It could have been Ashara that tells Ned where her brother is, but it could also have been someone who knew where Hightower went.

[Ser Creighton]

Just drop everything that doesn't have a hint from the books. We don't want to write what could have happened, we are collecting what we know happened, as told by GRRM. Postulating complete scenarios that don't agree with known facts is not getting anywhere, quickly.

Well it didn't actually go against facts. The fact is we don't know for certain who Jon's parents are. So everything is being done with the assumption that these are his parent. Right? Plus I already dropped it.

Basically what I am doing is basic induction. Rule one when trying to solve anything. Start at the beginning. We don't have the beginning, we don't know where the they left from. If you can figure that out, you can follow the bread crumbs. I need the beginning so I can set up a time line for the birth. I have an ending, I know Wylla wet nursed him and that she was a wet nurse at starfall.

In order to speculate that Jon is RT's and LS's are his parents all other options must be eliminated. We have no actual proof that Lyanna was pregnant or had a baby. It could be Ned and Ashara for all I know. So really everything is an assumption. Now if you want to try and proof it you gotta eliminate that stuff. If it has been then I am sorry, been here a few days, have not scene 1-38 so i don't know all the details of this thread. The only way I am going to find out is to spitball. That's why I do it fast, except what makes sense and move on.

If your just going by what the books said word for word then the mother is either Wylla or the girl from the boat. The only two names in the books mentioned as his mother. So is that what you want to do?

[GillyTarly]

I think that he was following the Kingsguard, now. It could have been Ashara that tells Ned where her brother is, but it could also have been someone who knew where Hightower went.

I kinda feel bad for the guy. He watches his sister die in front of him.

By now KL would have been sacked.

[Jon Icefyre]

There are still holes in the timeframe. Especially when Lyanna was pregnant to the time of birth. Inbetween birth of the child (Jon?) to the time of death. I'm wondering how Ned knew about the tower. I think someone sent Ned a letter about Lyanna.

It is my belief that the most likely candidate for revealing to Ned Lyanna's location is Ashara Dayne

[Ser Creighton]

corbon, were you referring to Harrenhal occurring late in the year? The year of the false spring has always conjured up a spring time break from winter to me. It could have warmed up late in the year, and clamped down to an impassable winter shortly later. I count winter as more than snow in the north, since we know it snows in the north during the "summer". I count it as snows in the south, too. It is snowing in King's Landing, right now (ADwD).

As for the betrothals they are announced at some point, and Catelyn recalls that Littlefinger challenged Brandon as soon as he heard.

You can drop the weather Martin basically said the weather is magical. The Tourney at Harrenhal is actually called the Winter Tourney at Harrenhal. Basically end of the year in this world or the last 2-3 months. We know a year later or just about a year Lyanna was gone. We know the war started right after that and it lasted about a year. Jon was born at some point in midor late 283, Dany who was at Dragonstone where Stannis was headed was born a short time later in 284. If you back track the Harrenhal tourney happened in the late months. If your going by weather, good luck 10 year summers, 5 year winters.

[Techelles]

Found this today. Point of general interest, just for reference.

http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/mlarchives/faq/timeline.html

[GillyTarly]

It is my belief that the most likely candidate for revealing to Ned Lyanna's location is Ashara Dayne

Pretty much.

[SFDanny]

Found this today. Point of general interest, just for reference.

http://www.angelfire...q/timeline.html

Not a very good timeline. There is a much better one in the Citadel that's titled "What Happened When During Robert's Rebellion?"

[Techelles]

Well it didn't actually go against facts. The fact is we don't know for certain who Jon's parents are. So everything is being done with the assumption that these are his parent. Right? Plus I already dropped it.

Basically what I am doing is basic induction. Rule one when trying to solve anything. Start at the beginning. We don't have the beginning, we don't know where the they left from. If you can figure that out, you can follow the bread crumbs. I need the beginning so I can set up a time line for the birth. I have an ending, I know Wylla wet nursed him and that she was a wet nurse at starfall.

In order to speculate that Jon is RT's and LS's are his parents all other options must be eliminated. We have no actual proof that Lyanna was pregnant or had a baby. It could be Ned and Ashara for all I know. So really everything is an assumption. Now if you want to try and proof it you gotta eliminate that stuff. If it has been then I am sorry, been here a few days, have not scene 1-38 so i don't know all the details of this thread. The only way I am going to find out is to spitball. That's why I do it fast, except what makes sense and move on.

If your just going by what the books said word for word then the mother is either Wylla or the girl from the boat. The only two names in the books mentioned as his mother. So is that what you want to do?

I think his point was just that while your theory might not have gone against facts, it isn't supported by any, either. So if we are both arguing from a position of not having any real facts, it's just destiny that our discussion won't be fruitful. We'll go round and round in circles forever, spinning more and more speculation, because if neither side is armed with facts, no one will ever accept that the other side's argument is conclusive.

We've all been guilty of this to some degree, I think. But it is best to build our cases around what is certain -- or at least around what is very likely, given the facts.

[Techelles]

Not a very good timeline. There is a much better one in the Citadel that's titled "What Happened When During Robert's Rebellion?"

That is certainly more detailed. Bookmarked for sure. The merit of the other is quicker reference.

[Jon Icefyre]

Not a very good timeline. There is a much better one in the Citadel that's titled "What Happened When During Robert's Rebellion?"

Good stuff

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I also think Ashara makes the most sense for who would have told him. And I think he had to be told by someone — he goes from not knowing where Lyanna is to knowing precisely where she is. The "he followed Gerold Hightower" thing doesn't quite fit for me, given that Hightower would've probably gone there long before Ned would've been in a position to follow him. Ashara is plausible as someone who both would probably have known about the Tower and who was there, and as someone who, from what we know, was at least congenial with Ned. I'm guessing that at that time she knew the Targaryen cause was lost but thought Ned at least deserved to know where to find his sister. On the other end of the spectrum, I also think she told Dayne and the other Kingsguard that Ned was coming — notice how neither party seems terribly surprised to see the other.

[Roza Ahai]

I wrote that theory, although I was only spitballing. I figure if I throw ideas out there, and then people basically prove them wrong or point out flaws then I can move on to a different idea and eliminate the stuff that doesn't work. Been here 3 days and just put up my 3rd or 4th theory. Feel free to wreck it. Just give me good reasons so I know where to adjust, drop, or change.

I appreciate your efforts! Seriously. Only one theory I've found to be amusing R+A+L=2J.

[Jon Icefyre]

I also think Ashara makes the most sense for who would have told him. And I think he had to be told by someone — he goes from not knowing where Lyanna is to knowing precisely where she is. The "he followed Gerold Hightower" thing doesn't quite fit for me, given that Hightower would've probably gone there long before Ned would've been in a position to follow him. Ashara is plausible as someone who both would probably have known about the Tower and who was there, and as someone who, from what we know, was at least congenial with Ned. I'm guessing that at that time she knew the Targaryen cause was lost but thought Ned at least deserved to know where to find his sister. On the other end of the spectrum, I also think she told Dayne and the other Kingsguard that Ned was coming — notice how neither party seems terribly surprised to see the other.

Ya I always thought that was a bit strange. That would explain why the kg didn't really have or at least show any hesitation to fight Ned, if they knew he was coming that would have given them time to decide amongst themselves(the three kg) what was going to be their course of action in dealing with Lyanna's brother aka Jon's uncle aka Ned which would have probably further strengthened their resolve to not let Ned leave with Jon.

[Winds of Winter blow cold]

Here copied this:

“Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread” (thread one)

“Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread” (thread two)

“The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon thread (Part III)” (thread three)

“The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon thread (Part IV)” (thread four)

“The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part V)” (thread five)

“The Lyanna + Rhaegar = Jon Thread (Part VI)” (thread six)

“The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon Thread Part VII” (thread seven)

“The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon thread, Part VIII” (thread eight)

“The Rhaegar + Lyanna = Jon thread, Part IX” (thread nine)

“The Rhaegar + Lyanna =Jon Thread, Part X”(thread ten)

“The R+L=J thread, part XI” (thread eleven)

“The R+L=J thread, part XII” (thread twelve)

“R+L=J Part XXIII” (thread thirteen)

“R+L=J Part XXIV” (thread fourteen)

“R+L=J XXV” (thread fifteen)

“R+L=J v.16” (thread sixteen)

“R+L=J v.17” (thread seventeen)

“R+L=J v.18” (thread eighteen)

“R+L=J v.19” (thread nineteen)

“R+L=J v.20” (thread twenty)

“R+L=J v.21” (thread twenty-one)

“R+L=J v.22” (thread twenty-two)

“R+L=J v.22a” (thread 22a)

“R+L=J v.23” (thread twenty-three)

“R+L=J v.24” (thread twenty-four)

“R+L=J v.25” (thread twenty-five)

“R+L=J v.26” (thread twenty-six)

“R+L=J v.27” (thread twenty-seven)

“R+L=J v.28” (thread twenty-eight)

“R+L=J v.29” (thread twenty-nine)

“R+L=J v.30” (thread thirty)

“R+L=J v.31” (thread thirty-one)

“R+L=J v.32” (thread thirty-two)

“R+L=J #33” (thread thirty-three)

“R+L=J v.34” (thread thirty-four)

“R+L=J v.35” (thread thirty-five)

“R+L=J v.36” (thread thirty-six)

“R+L=J v.37” (thread thirty-seven)

“R+L=J v.38” (thread thirty-eight)

“R+L=J v.39” (thread thirty-nine)

[Roza Ahai]

If Ashara informed Ned about Lyanna's location, she would think that Arthur's death is her fault. Daynes shouldn't blame Ned, in opposite way they would appreciate that he brought Moning Star to Starfall. He is not obligated to do it because he won the sword in the battle.