GRRM's greatest plot twist ever, (Spoilers Mate)

[Ser Creighton]

I'm confused about his legitimacy. Quaithe is from Asshai, where the "truth" is. So far she has given Daenerys good counsel and what she says has come true. With that being said she mentions a mummers dragon en route to Meereen and that Daenerys shouldn't trust him. This may suggest that he is Aegon is a Blackfyre and not a Targaryen or that he's just a liar. But what is the motivation to seat a mummers dragon on the throne instead of Daenerys who is no doubt a Targaryen plus she has three dragons. It's not like Aegon himself could have come up with the lie; Jon Connington, Varys and Illyrio would have to know. Plus his features are definitely Targaryen-esque.

Then I consider the fact that Aegon is rolling with a bunch of Blackfyre supporters. I dunno what GRRM is planning.

Varys was a mummer confirmed by Martin, the Mummers Dragon. This can imply 3 things, he is fake, he belongs to Varys, he is a tool being manipulated by Varys. However that does not mean he can't be a Targ, plenty of people to pick from. The Gold Company suggests Bittersteel more than anything though.

Although he could be Aegon, Varys saved him and had him raised, Varys wants a puppet king he can control. Prophecies got nothing to do with it. Or at least they don't have to, just cause Rhaegar thought he was the prince doesn't mean much. Rhaegar was wrong, a lot. Rhaegar though he was the Prince because on the day he thinks he was conceived he say a comet above kings landing. Rhaegar had issues, dude was seeing prophecies everywhere.

[Serdeadfall]

But wasn' t it mentioned (I think by Jaime, but might be I am mistaken) that getting throne in Seven Kingdoms by conquest is as legal as inheriting by birth? I mean if Robert got throne by conquest, then Targs do not inherit throne further even if some of them live. This way Stannis has the best claim. Of course, Aegon (real or not so real) can take it by conquest too...

Yes and in GOT Cersei told Ned that he could have taken the throne for himself during the sack of KL, and (Can't remember when) Jaime thinks about how the Lannister bannermen in the throne room, waited/expected for him to take the throne

Long time reader first post!

[Greywind84]

Ned.

Definitely. Set the tone for the rest of the series. Nobody was safe after this.

[Ice Turtle]

Lysa poisoning her husband and Bloodraven being still alive.

[Joant9922]

As Greywind84 and Jon Wolfwalker (btw great name) said, one of the best was Ned's beheading.

But the best so far, the one that makes me tear up when I think about it, the one that makes people curse GRRM and throw books accross living rooms, the one that causes everyone's blood to boil, the one that is responsible for us having the TV show GoT......we all know which one it is.....The Red Wedding.

[Theda Baratheon]

Red Wedding. Ned's Death. All the hidden or secret identities.

I feel a bit ashamed that I could not possibly care less about Aegon, like, I really really really am not interested in him AT ALL. Dunno why.

[Gauis Julius Caesar]

Red Wedding. Ned's Death. All the hidden or secret identities.

I feel a bit ashamed that I could not possibly care less about Aegon, like, I really really really am not interested in him AT ALL. Dunno why.

How was the red wedding surprising? I found it painfully obvious. To the point id dread every nee chapter because I feared it would be a pov around Robb

[Éadaoin]

How was the red wedding surprising? I found it painfully obvious. To the point id dread every nee chapter because I feared it would be a pov around Robb

I didn't see the RW coming but when I looked back at it, I realized that I should have.

[shiola]

Is this thread about Aegon or what we think the best twist is? Hahaha.

I'd say Ned's death and The Red Wedding... I had heard the name the Red Wedding in advance, and I just assumed it was Joff's wedding because the Lannister color is red and because I assumed shit would go downhill at his wedding so it would have a double meaning. So I remember reading the chapter with the Frey's and I'm like "okay whatever, whatever," and then IT HAPPENS and it was just... Ugh. I had to put down the book for a few days. It was amazing in the most soul crushing way.

And then the foreshadowing when it says Grey Wind snarled at the rain before they went inside for the feast was almost like a second plot twist because the foreshadowing is just so unbelievable, and re-reading the series has given me about a hundred more "Oh shit" moments than reading it the first time did.

I can't wait to see the fans-of-the-show-but-not-the-book's reactions to the RW in season 3. Oh god.

And I personally thought it was really cool and I didn't expect it when Danny's eggs hatched, but maybe I'm just stupid. It's not such a cool twist now because she can't control them and a dragon that can't be controlled is useless.

[Theda Baratheon]

How was the red wedding surprising? I found it painfully obvious. To the point id dread every nee chapter because I feared it would be a pov around Robb

Well, biggest plot twist. It did significantly you know, twist the plot. On a first reading, I really didn't pick up on it at all. I had inklings this wedding wasn't going to be all that swell, but wOW I did not guess that THAT would happen.

[Bluesnow]

I feel a bit ashamed that I could not possibly care less about Aegon, like, I really really really am not interested in him AT ALL. Dunno why.

Don't be ashamed =P

We have no reason to care about him... his character and personality have hardly been established at all.... We have no reason to love or hate him even.

I won't be shocked either way because I'm not emotionally invested in him.

Jon Con on the other hand is growing on me, and considering he's the POV chapter for that party I believe the bigger aspect of any big reveal will be how it affect Jon.

As for biggest Plot Twist... I had to reread Eddard getting his head off 3 times before I would believe it was real xD

[Yukle]

Aegon is an annoying plot thread. With all of the stuff already happening and with the Iron Islands trying to get dragons in AFFC and Dany taking literally years to move between three cities, reading about Aegon was just another distraction from the main plot.

Honestly, I want him to be fake and his storyline ended in about two chapters.

ETA: If Aegon was real, he'd have been introduced in aGoT, not as an afterthought four books in.

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

Not exactly a plot twist, but when Igrette explained how the Wildings were responsible for letting lose the Others when they searching for Joroman's Horn, I wanted Jon to strangle her right then and there.

Say what now?

[jons nissa]

Not exactly a plot twist, but when Igrette explained how the Wildings were responsible for letting lose the Others when they searching for Joroman's Horn, I wanted Jon to strangle her right then and there.

wait, what? can you say more about this?

Long time reader first post!

welcome serdeadfall! happy posting.

[Grail King]

For Me: Ned's head the Pink and Red Weddings and the reveal of Lady Stoneheart, I plain stopped reading the book for a week I was so shaken after the RW and I just felt deeply chilled on the LSH reveal.

[Joant9922]

How was the red wedding surprising? I found it painfully obvious. To the point id dread every nee chapter because I feared it would be a pov around Robb

I'll have to disagree with you. You can make an argument about maybe expecting Walder Frey to try to screw Robb somehow, but not at the wedding under their roof, and not by killling everyone like that. Once Robb and his people had been welcomed inside the Twins, and once they had all eaten the Frey's "salt and wine", nobody could have foreseen the events that followed. It's not that anyone ever mistook Walder Frey or Roose Bolton for trustworthy people, but the reason the RW was so shocking within the world of the books is that murdering guests is JUST NOT DONE. No matter how vile someone is. Violating the Guest Right is seen within the books as an abomination, the lowest of the very low, and an invitation to curse yourself and your house forever, in front of any of the god(s) you follow.

Tywin Lannister himself would have never dared violate the guest right.

And you can already see the consequences within the books. Even people who are not directly against the Freys still think of the act as an abomination. Heck, even Jaime is repulsed by the Freys.

[danm_999]

I'll have to disagree with you. You can make an argument about maybe expecting Walder Frey to try to screw Robb somehow, but not at the wedding under their roof, and not by killling everyone like that. Once Robb and his people had been welcomed inside the Twins, and once they had all eaten the Frey's "salt and wine", nobody could have foreseen the events that followed. It's not that anyone ever mistook Walder Frey or Roose Bolton for trustworthy people, but the reason the RW was so shocking within the world of the books is that murdering guests is JUST NOT DONE. No matter how vile someone is. Violating the Guest Right is seen within the books as an abomination, the lowest of the very low, and an invitation to curse yourself and your house forever, in front of any of the god(s) you follow.

Tywin Lannister himself would have never dared violate the guest right.

And you can already see the consequences within the books. Even people who are not directly against the Freys still think of the act as an abomination. Heck, even Jaime is repulsed by the Freys.

I think part of the success of the Red Wedding (from a literary perspective) is how it loads all the tension into the initial encounter between Robb and the Freys. Catelyn is very nervous that they're going to attack Robb out of hand, and the bread and salt Walder Frey gives Robb ends the tension.

Then Catelyn goes and does she rather humdrum errands; she visits the Maester to have a chat about Edmure's bride, she goes to her room and gets changed, he has a chat with some of Robb's bannermen. Then in the next chapter the wedding gets underway - with typical Martin description of the food and clothing - and nothing is telegraphed to be out and out wrong until after the bedding ceremony.

Then it all hits at once; it wasn't just designed to lull Robb and his followers into a false sense of security, but to lull the readers as well.

[Bushido]

Varys is a mummer and Aegon being alive is because of Varys. Hence mummer's dragon.

Yes Quaithe's prophecies have all but usually come true but this time, this time they did not.

A clever little Imp Lion( which was mentioned in the prophecy) convinced Aegon and Griffon to go to Westros instead of seeking out Dany.

That's NOT a prophecy.

[SerStinger]

Let me just point out that not every surprising event is a "plot twist". A plot twist is when it is revealed to us that something we thought was true, was not (ie Darth Vader didn't kill Luke's father, he was his father OR Cersei didn't kill Jon Arryn, Lysa and Littlefinger did). It always implies a deception of the reader. Therefore Ned's death and Red Wedding are not plot twists.

[StarkDragon]

Let me just point out that not every surprising event is a "plot twist". A plot twist is when it is revealed to us that something we thought was true, was not (ie Darth Vader didn't kill Luke's father, he was his father OR Cersei didn't kill Jon Arryn, Lysa and Littlefinger did). It always implies a deception of the reader. Therefore Ned's death and Red Wedding are not plot twists.

That being said, I found Lysa using the tears of Lys amusing.