The Wire: Continued

[mormont]

I think the difference between Chris and Marlo is that Chris is shown to have genuine emotional connections to other people. He has a sort of avuncular relationship with both Snoop and (later) Michael (that's a big part of why he freaks out and beats Michael's dad to death: some people have also read it as implying that Chris himself was abused as a child). On top of that, though we don't really see them except in one shot, we know Chris has a partner and children.

Marlo, though: even his relationship with Chris, probably his only real friend, is not particularly warm and we see that it matters less to him than his rep on the street does. He only seems to want people to fear him. There seems to be nothing to him but cruelty, ruthlessness and occasional anger. I can see how people would regard him as a bigger psycho than Chris.

[RumHam]

"Soldiers", yeah... The complete apathy shown by Chris towards murder makes him an even bigger monster in my mind. At least Marlo did what he did for a reason (albeit bullshit reasons for sure)

He did most of them for a reason, but things like having the security guard killed for standing up to him were especially despicable in my opinion. I don't remember the details, but when he's first being introduced there's a story about him that Norris or someone tells Kima and Mcnulty. I wanna say something about him killing a witness, does anyone remember?

[Consigliere]

<snip>

I agree with this. On initial viewing I found the beating that Chris doled out on Michael's dad to be unnecessarily brutal. I never considered that the brutality of the attack could have pointed to Chris being abused as a child himself (thanks for pointing that out). Despite his ruthlessness, Chris has shown that he has at least a shred of humanity. Marlo OTOH I've always considered to be cold and calculating, caring for no one but himself. I would definately consider Marlo to be more dangerous than Chris.

[Pinkie Baelish]

Chris is just as ruthless as Marlo, why do you like him?

Like I said, I don't really have a good reason. But I think it's because Chris shows a sense of big-brother protectiveness when it comes to Michael, which Marlo doesn't really show to anyone. Oh, and the

where he kills the New York drug dealer makes me laugh for some reason. And like other posters have mentioned, Chris is just the soldier - he's essentially just doing what he's told, even though he's Marlo's right hand man. As strange as it sounds, Chris' brutal murder of Bug's dad humanises him in a way I never saw happen to Marlo. It really brings out his damaged side, and showed that he's pretty much what Michael might turn out to be in a few years.

I think the problem with the Stanfield crew in general was that they were just a bit dull compared to the Barksdale crew. Avon and Stringer were clear-cut villains, but they were villains who felt real and empathetic. Marlo does feel real as well. but he's closer to the traditional ruthless sociopath druglord you see in TV shows. And even when it comes to each organization's soldiers, Barksdale had Bodie, Poot, Slim Charles etc, who all felt like very genuine characters. With the exception of Michael, Chris is the only Stanfield soldier who has any sort of substance(I could be wrong though - I'm only on episode 5x02). Snoop and Chris are chilling to watch as a pair of homicidal death machines, but overall I think they add to the lack of humanity in the Stanfield crew.

Now that's not necessarily a criticism - I feel as if Simon intentionally made Marlo and his men far more sociopathic to showcase the new breed of gangs. I just don't have the same sort of attachment that I did with the Barksdale organization.

[Black Wolf Smith]

I am going to take the oppisite approach and talk about the parrallelism of the storylines of characters of the first few ep, and the last few. In short, the last few ep balace the first and almost ever character in the last ep's has become or is becoming a character from the first ep's, often even to the point to say the very simalir lines.

Bunk + Kima = McNulty + Bunk: one of the first scenes very first ep Bunk has "picked up the phone" when it wasn't their turn and got stuck with a stone cold who-done-it, McNulty tells him how stupid he is, and that he walk away from it. In one of the last scenes of the last ep, Kima has "picked up the phone" while Bunk turns how dumb that is, and how she is on her own.

Sydor = McNulty McNulty basically starts the whole show off by going to newly appointed Judge Phelan, in the last ep Sydor has gone to Phelan and complaining about whats going on.

Carver = Daniels First ep Lt. Daniels is still trying to be true police, while getting stuck in politics, In the last ep, Carver gets promoted by leaving Commishner Daniels who didn't want to play the game, while you can already see Carver hating the politics of it all.

Kima = McNulty both trying hard to be a good parent while under going a drastically changes in their life, and trying to put together IKEA furniture, and getting pissed when they failed.

Pearlman = Judge Phelan Pearlman becomes the newly appointed judge.

Daniels = Pearlman Daniels moves to practicing lawer.

Bunk = Landsman Bunk seems to have taking the lead role of the unit.

Landsman = Rawls Landsman seems to be OIC of Homicide.

In an off beat way McNulty + Freamon = Mahon + Polk Mahon got punched and then took retirement, telling Polk to "fall down the stairs" so the could go out together. The whole last season McNulty and Freamon take a great fall trying to get Marlo, and retire together.

Bubbles = Walon Bubbles has gotten straight, and is trying to give back, in he own small way, much like Walon was when Bubbles meet him.

While at one point Micheal and Dukie played the part of D and Wallace end the end....

Dukie = Bubbles One of the last scenes shows a lost and lonely Dukie shooting a hit.

Micheal = Omar Micheal wearing a hoodie, and carring a shotgun, shoots the kneecap off of someone he is robbing when the guy doesn't give it up quick enough, much like when we meet Omar in the 3rd ep.

Chris = Weebay Both are "family" men that are hitman to feed there kids, and keep their women happy. Last ep shows the two of them leaning against fence in prison, talking, laughing.

Stanfield = Bell and Barksdale Marlo is trying very hard to be Stringer, "the business man", but in the end, is Avon the "thug for life" who feels the need to be in it.

I got a questions. After Omar dies, at the end of the ep, the guy from the corner opens up Omar and another guys bag looks at both and then changes the tags. What was that about, anybody know?

I forgot what might be the best scene ever in movie/TV series. McNulty and Bunk go and look over the crime scene of a murder D commited. The entire, not too short scene is them looking over and saying fuck, fuck me, motherfuck, or oh fuck.

[RumHam]

I got a questions. After Omar dies, at the end of the ep, the guy from the corner opens up Omar and another guys bag looks at both and then changes the tags. What was that about, anybody know?

The name tags were wrong, so the orderly corrected them. It's about underscoring how the death of Omar, while so important to the plot and viewers, sorta goes unnoticed by most of the city. Same as when the newspaper cuts reporting his death cause they don't have space.

[Independent George]

I forgot what might be the best scene ever in movie/TV series. McNulty and Bunk go and look over the crime scene of a murder D commited. The entire, not too short scene is them looking over and saying fuck, fuck me, motherfuck, or oh fuck.

Sepinwall called that the litmus test on whether you'll like The Wire. If you're bothered by the cold-blooded profanity, or can't follow what is happening in that scene, then it's not for you. If you rolled off the couch in a fit of laughter, then you'll love the show.

[Ser Greguh]

The name tags were wrong, so the orderly corrected them. It's about underscoring how the death of Omar, while so important to the plot and viewers, sorta goes unnoticed by most of the city. Same as when the newspaper cuts reporting his death cause they don't have space.

Yup. The point that Simon was pretty overtly making there was the disconnect between the street and the rest of the world. On the street, Omar is an almost mythical figure of legendary badassness, but once he's killed, he's just another cadaver that, had it not been for the attentiveness of an orderly that realized the doughy-looking white guy's name probably wasn't "Omar Devon Little", would have gone to the freezer with the wrong name on his toe tag. The point is reinforced when Omar's death makes it into a mention in the Newsroom rundown, but is cut from the paper due to space.

[Relic]

Something interesting: I went on a date with a cop last night. He worked as a cop in West Baltimore for a few years, and he said that the Wire was very, very realistic as far as he was concerned. He said the show portrayed the crime condition and police department pretty much as they were in Baltimore. I found that to be interesting and thought I'd pass it along to those in this thread :)

Well, duh =P

That's why The Wire is the best show ever. You should read Simon's book "Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets". He spends a year with Baltimore Homicide and writes all about it.

[Independent George]

Not surprising at all given the show's lineage. As Relic mentioned, David Simon spent a year embedded with the BPD Homicide squad. His writing partner was Ed Burns, another detective who spent time working on wiretap cases with the FBI before he retired to teach middle school. One of those wire cases was against Melvin Williams - the kingpin whom Avon Barksdale was based on, and would appear on the show as the Deacon who helps Cutty out.

Jay Landsman would appear on the show as Lt. Mello (Bunny Colvin's #2), apparently not being Jay Landsman enough to play himself. One of the other homicide detectives (bald white guy) was actually a former police superintendant.

Omar was based on real-life robber Donnie Andrews, who played the big guy who died in the apartment ambush in S5 (and who in real life did indeed jump out a 5th-floor balcony to escape an ambush).

[Summah]

Something interesting: I went on a date with a cop last night. He worked as a cop in West Baltimore for a few years, and he said that the Wire was very, very realistic as far as he was concerned. He said the show portrayed the crime condition and police department pretty much as they were in Baltimore. I found that to be interesting and thought I'd pass it along to those in this thread :)

I live in Baltimore City and I find the show very realistic, though I don't have much first hand experience with the police in Baltimore or anything like that. Driving anywhere in Baltimore, you see neighborhoods just like the ones on the Wire, lots of boarded up row houses and drug dealers standing on the corners, and at least where I live, I can't really go anywhere without going through neighborhoods like that.

[Maithanet]

Omar was based on real-life robber Donnie Andrews, who played the big guy who died in the apartment ambush in S5 (and who in real life did indeed jump out a 5th-floor balcony to escape an ambush).

I even read that they had to make it a couple of stories less high on the show because they were worried no one would believe that Omar could survive jumping at that height.

[Black Wolf Smith]

Yup. The point that Simon was pretty overtly making there was the disconnect between the street and the rest of the world. The point is reinforced when Omar's death makes it into a mention in the Newsroom rundown, but is cut from the paper due to space.

The same point was made earlier in the season when Gus hears about Prop Joe, and none of the white guys at the paper knew who he was.

Something interesting: I went on a date with a cop last night.

As already said, it was based off true stories from the late '80's and early '90's. many from his book, H: aYitL, which was adpated into Homicide: Life on the Streets. Some stories are played out in both the wire, and H:LotS. I also highly suggest both the TV and book the Corner, based off time Simon spent on the streets with a guy name Gary (RIP) his son DeAndre (RIP)and others.

Omar was based on real-life robber Donnie Andrews, who played the big guy who died in the apartment ambush in S5 (and who in real life did indeed jump out a 5th-floor balcony to escape an ambush).

Did not not that was him. There were a lot of other Police and street people playing small roles.

[wolverine]

Sorry, I can't keep up with every Wire thread we have here. I was just offering some anecdotal first hand information that I found interesting.

I found the first hand opinion you mentioned interesting too, Mandy.

[Independent George]

Sorry, I can't keep up with every Wire thread we have here. I was just offering some anecdotal first hand information that I found interesting.

I found the first hand opinion you mentioned interesting too, Mandy.

Same here - more data is always welcome to me.

[Talleyrand]

Just got onto season 4 in my re-watch, The docks were not as bad as I remember them and I would be tempted to put them at third if i could figure which one out of the other 3 - Ziggy, Nick and Frank all come off as well rounded characters who I feel worked better by the fact that they were just in their own self-contained season.

Also does anyone else find themselves wondering how the gang war in 3 might have gone if the Barksdales had not lost most of the their muscle in 1 - I can see Chris Snoop and Marlo faring far worse if they had to go up against Bey and Bird as well.

Omar was based on real-life robber Donnie Andrews, who played the big guy who died in the apartment ambush in S5 (and who in real life did indeed jump out a 5th-floor balcony to escape an ambush).

Also Donnie Andrews is now married to the real life Fran Boyd from The Corner after David Simon introduced the 2 when researching both shows

[Black Wolf Smith]

Just got onto season 4 in my re-watch, The docks were not as bad as I remember them and I would be tempted to put them at third if i could figure which one out of the other 3 - Ziggy, Nick and Frank¹ all come off as well rounded characters who I feel worked better by the fact that they were just in their own self-contained season.

Also Donnie Andrews is now married to the real life Fran Boyd from The Corner after David Simon introduced the 2 when researching both shows²

1. All 3 actors are doing well now. Ziggy is on Low Winter Sun, Nick is Pornstash on Orange is the New Black and had a guest spot of L & O:SVU, and of coarse Frank is on True Blood.

2. Really? and word of what happened to her younger son? I know that DeAndre died (Simon wrote a really nice piece about him on his web site)

[Talleyrand]

2. Really? and word of what happened to her younger son? I know that DeAndre died (Simon wrote a really nice piece about him on his web site)

According to an article about DeAndre's death in the mail and another one about in the Independent about Andrews and his reforming. Haven't seen anything about the younger one though

[Honey Badger]

Not surprising at all given the show's lineage. As Relic mentioned, David Simon spent a year embedded with the BPD Homicide squad. His writing partner was Ed Burns, another detective who spent time working on wiretap cases with the FBI before he retired to teach middle school. One of those wire cases was against Melvin Williams - the kingpin whom Avon Barksdale was based on, and would appear on the show as the Deacon who helps Cutty out.

IIRC The Wire was started by a newspaperman (Simon) and a cop (Burns). I saw a documentary on Melvin Williams and I walked away very gray area on the guy. He seemed genuine and reliable as a person, but it was clear he busted some heads while he was drug kingpin. Plus although the IRS RICO'ed his ass, he laughs at the fact that they couldn't find all the cash. So he lives comfortably retired. Just goes to show some people in the community will view such characters as Robin Hood, or the villain depending on who you ask.

[Fat Mac]

Also does anyone else find themselves wondering how the gang war in 3 might have gone if the Barksdales had not lost most of the their muscle in 1 - I can see Chris Snoop and Marlo faring far worse if they had to go up against Bey and Bird as well.

That's an interesting thing to ponder. I would see them as restless, trying to get Marlo and his group at any cost. Avon kind of took a back seat in S3, and I wonder if Stringer would be enough to hold Wee Bey and Bird back from going after Marlo. I'm also not sure how well they would adjust to the whole co-op thing.