Val is Jon’s true Queen.

[Inquisitor Glokta]

I don't see the fascination with Val; I find her fairly one note and too... Perfect. Which is grating. I don't ship Jon with anyone, but if he had to be with someone I'd rather it was a character like Dany, who's very 3D and we know her, than Val who's uninteresting.

Ok, so the wildling woman, who rides alone into the haunted forest, where rangers in groups of 3 go missing, finds the Wildlings an convinces them somehow to trust Jon, give up children as hostages and help the crows.

So this woman is uninteresting to you???

Compared to someone like Dany, a privileged, spoiled cheerleader.

edit:

To be honest I dont care if Jon will be a king or not, what he always wanted to be was a hero. So I want him to ended up with a girl from the north or wildling because they shares the same gods, values and love the north. So Val and Jon are meant to be.

If not Val...give some time to Wylla Manderly or Lyanna Mormont grow up...and they will be the perfect choices for brides for any son of Winterfell. I hope Rickon Stark ended up with Wylla Manderly.

Wylla is actually about Jon's age. She is like 15 or something.

Lyanna Mormont would be perfect for Rickon, as they are closer in age...

Why would you ship Rickon, with a girl twice his age and have Jon wait for Lyanna Mormont to come of age? The other way aroung works perfect... Strange strange...

[Ghost's Shadow]

Mance's wife, Dalla, was cooking chicken when Jon comes into Mance's tent. Cersei is served by Harys Swyft, the knight of the yellow chicken and Pycelle, who is described as having a chicken neck. Cersei also described Kevan;s wife as chicken-legged. Chicken could be an indicator of a queen or consort.

and let the carcass [honeyed chicken] slide to the floor between his [Jon's] legs

Val is noted in Jon's POV for her honey-colored hair. Honeyed chicken sliding between his legs, get the idea? :leer:

Wanted to say that I love you posted this quote in here as I was just thinking about it a few days ago. Maybe because we had chicken or something. :P

Val isn't 20, I 'd place her as closer to Jon's age, around 16.

I don't think I'm going to agree here that she's only around 16. She could be, but I'd place her at a few years older than Jon, too. 20 would be ideal, maybe a bit too ideal still.

The reason why is Dalla and Mance. We've speculated that the girl could potentially not be real sisters but priestess sisters, so there could be an age gap, but the simplest way to read it for now is to accept them as real sisters. Val is supposed to be the more beautiful one (more beautiful than Dalla, I think), but Mance ended up with the other sister, possibly because she was the older one (Mance is not really young himself, I think). Val will probably be a few years younger, but not too many? Though you never know if there are siblings in between them, or miscarriages, etc.

Jon is 18-ish himself, so 20 is not too bad, especially not since Ygritte was a year or 3 older than him as well?

Is one of the reasons you see Val as younger because she doesn't have a 'real' partner yet (versus a pet), and no children yet either?

[Bayard]

Season 3 has ended, they didn't use Val, and even more, they've kept Ygritte alive. Most likely she will be alive for most of the 4 season, up until the battle at the Wall. I don't like it, but this could show us that Val doesn't have an important part to play later on. If she was that important, meant to become Jon's queen.... D&D would know by know, and would have started preparing for it. (maybe)

[Ghost's Shadow]

Not necessarily, I don't think. With the large cast, it seems like they will only hire people last minute.

In season 4, they might have Jon walk over to the Wildlings (after their temporary defeat) and do the Val/Dalla part. If they're going to work with babies they need to do that anyway. They might have missed Val/Jarl then, but that's not exactly much.

And now that I think of it, Dalla died giving birth to a baby, and Gilly already long has her. How's that going to work out? Unless Val's going to be raising her dead sister's infant already, that skips Dalla completely. :unsure:

[Iroh]

Why would you ship Rickon, with a girl twice his age and have Jon wait for Lyanna Mormont to come of age? The other way aroung works perfect... Strange strange...

My mistake....just got confused with the ages.

[SaltpansResident]

Eesh, Val?

I find her cold, violent, and lacking in compassion ("the dead girl") but then, so was Ygritte... so I guess she's perfect for Jon.

[Winterz]

For that, he'd have to be King and he isn't, not yet and I even have my doubts on that.

[Ghost's Shadow]

I don't think Val needs him to be a King. :P

[Winterz]

I don't think Val needs him to be a King. :P

Well technically when one says "Jon's true Queen" he's referring to the many optional Queens or maybe just the ones who will marry King Jon (which seems the more likely) ;)

And Val isn't a Queen, not really.

[~DarkHorse~]

I'll admit I'm warming up to Val- especially if she helps Jon heal. However, I wouldn't mind seeing Jon with someone less expected- a Mormont or Manderly?

I feel as if Jon/Val would turn Jon's earlier relationship with Ygritte into nothing but Wildling Lover round 1. Although, allot can happen in two books so opinions will be swayed which is why it's too early to decide what pairings are good and bad eg. Dany/Jon.

[SaltpansResident]

I feel as if Jon/Val would turn Jon's earlier relationship with Ygritte into nothing but Wildling Lover round 1.

I have a problem with this too. Though I suppose you could argue that Val has evolved a bit from the straight-up throat-slitting end of the spectrum represented by Ygritte, and she's more capable of playing the game successfully in the long term.

I think Jon will (as the character now stands) will remain celibate. I don't see him ever leaving his primary loyalty to the Wall.

EDIT TO SAY: Now if we were talking about ASHA, on the other hand...

[Le Cygne]

Val is very different from Ygritte. I see him as an author who lays a foundation and then builds from there in the last two books, rather than builds something new. I think it's either Val or nothing.

[Tagganaro]

Val is very different from Ygritte. I see him as an author who lays a foundation and then builds from there in the last two books, rather than builds something new. I think it's either Val or nothing.

agreed. Certainly makes more sense than him ending up with Dany as of the moment. Additionally, I don't really see Val and Ygritte as having much in common other than them both being ass-kicking women with cruel streaks. Jon's interactions with Val so far have been mostly light-hearted, and for lack of a better word, consensual. Whereas with Ygritte there was always this heavy secret in the air between Jon and Ygritte and their relationship seemed to have more drama to it.

[Iroh]

It is not so simple as going from a Wildling girl to another, Ygritte is dead...and if we think back she did a wonderful job in make Jon open his eyes about life and about himself. And what is most important about wildlings is that they don´t care if you are a bastard or who your father was...and that was something that always hurt him.

"When Jon had been very young, too young to understand what it meant to be a bastard, he used to dream that one day Winterfell might be his. Later, when he was older, he had been ashamed of those dreams. Winterfell would go to Robb and then his sons, or to Bran or Rickon should Robb die childless. And after them came Sansa and Arya. Even to dream otherwise seemed disloyal, as if he were betraying them in his heart, wishing for their deaths. I never wanted this, he thought as he stood before the blue-eyed king and the red woman. I loved Robb, loved all of them . . . I never wanted any harm to come to any of them, but it did. And now there’s only me. All he had to do was say the word, and he would be Jon Stark, and nevermore a Snow."

"I might someday hold a son of my own blood in my arms. A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb. Val would want to keep her sister’s son, but we could foster him at Winterfell, and Gilly’s boy as well. Sam would never need to tell his lie. We’d find a place for Gilly too, and Sam could come visit her once a year or so. Mance’s son and Craster’s would grow up brothers, as I once did with Robb.

He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me."

And because of Ygritte, Jon is a little more mature about romance and know more about the Wildlings so he will be a better lover for Val. And even if Jon never leave the Night Watch, she will just raise and love their child.

[Lord Damian]

Val is stunning and she has great respect from the wildings and freefolk. She would be ideal for a King in the North since the free folk/wildings are new citizens of the North.

[Fire Eater]

ASoS:

the red wanderer that septons preached was sacred to their Smith up here was called the Thief. And when the Thief was in the Moonmaid, that was a propitious time for a man to steal a woman, Ygritte insisted. “Like the night you stole me. The Thief was bright that night.”

The light of the half-moon turned Val's honey-blond hair a pale silver and left her cheeks as white as snow

"Thief," Jon said, as the bird flapped up to the lintel above the door to devour it's prize.

"Thief," the raven agreed.

I think the raven was calling Jon "Thief", like he does "king" and Val, dressed in white and what I found in this thread, is the Moonmaid. Does this foreshadow their relationship with the "Thief in the Moonmaid" if you know what I mean? ;)

[Le Cygne]

So clearly there's something there, Val is even Ghost-approved. But what about Shireen's greyscale, Val said, "You know nothing, Jon Snow."

[LordStoneheart]

Ok, so the wildling woman, who rides alone into the haunted forest, where rangers in groups of 3 go missing, finds the Wildlings an convinces them somehow to trust Jon, give up children as hostages and help the crows.

So this woman is uninteresting to you???

Compared to someone like Dany, a privileged, spoiled cheerleader.

It's all about how you spin it to fit your dialogue and make yourself feel right. For instance,

Daenerys is a partial soothsayer who knows the foundations of blood magic, the owner of three dragon, the last daughter and heir of the only dynasty to unite the seven kingdoms of Westeros; men from all over proclaim her as the most beautiful woman in the world, has crossed half the world including a desert, speaks many languages, survived many assassination attempts, and conquered three whole cities in a matter of weeks with very few losses of her own people. Not to mention, she's a dragon rider.

Val is an uneducated Wildling savage with no real grasp of proper societal customs. and advocates child-murder.

^ Is that an oversimplification of Val? Well, so is writing Dany off as a privileged, spoiled cheerleader.

Again, all about how you spin the given information.

[The Idiots Lantern]

Val is an uneducated Wildling savage with no real grasp of proper societal customs. and advocates child-murder.

^ Is that an oversimplification of Val? Well, so is writing Dany off as a privileged, spoiled cheerleader.

No kidding. Perspective is a hell of a thing.

Of course people want to see Jon with Val.... From what we've seen of Val, she's beautiful, she's tough, she's fearless, she's selfless and she's willing to kill children to support Jon's claim to power. Plus, Ghost likes her. She's an ideal queen.

Compare that to Dany. We've been right there to see Dany do things without really knowing the consequences, make huge mistakes, and she know she wants power for HERSELF, which is kind of the opposite of the noble ideal of only going to the mat to support SOMEONE ELSE. She's TRYING, and she wants to do good things for people, but she's flawed. Even her staunchest defender has to admit her personal and political failings because we've been right there to see them.

It's a matter of the person who's flaws you know too well vs. the person you barely know but who seems perfect.

We just don't know Val well enough to know what her failings are. It's easy to idealize a person before you really get to know them.

But at the moment, bar some unlikely development, the only way Val is becoming Jon's queen is if they put crowns on reanimated corpses now...

[Le Cygne]

Who would make Jon Snow marry someone? He might feel an obligation if he's king or something, but still, he could choose who he wanted. So we're talking romance, not politics. In that case there needs to be some indication of desire, or the potential for that, in the text. That's the part I want to see. I'm not seeing anything in the story indicating he'd choose Dany.