[Book Spoilers] Season 3 Finale?

[mystikherb]

You know, I've been thinking about it a bit more lately, and I've changed my mind (sorta) about how I feel with this season ending with UnCat. Not that I won't squeak and bang my hands together like a schoolgirl if we see her at the very end (because let's face it, it will be a bomb moment), but I'm no longer sure how I feel about it as far as translating the story for screen. The common theory on this site it seems is that the last shot will reveal Lady Stoneheart, but will show her as Thoros and the gang revive her, with the final shot being her eyes opening- I can see why this seems more likely than showing her at the hanging as it did in the epilogue as it will give her more to do than in season 4, but I'm starting to hope that's not what happens. I'm actually starting to hope that if they do end the season this way, that they actually show the final scene from ASOS and here's why:

Firstly, let's talk about what made the epilogue so effective. The obvious thing would be the whole "holy shit, she's back" thing, but when you think about it that's not what made the scene so great. For example, if the last scene had been Arya running through the woods and suddenly Catelyn came out of the trees all "I'm alive, come give mommy a hug", I would have honestly been disappointed that they brought her back. It would just take away the shock of her death. What made the end of "Storm" so great was that yes, they brought her back, but now she's a scarred, angry, ghost of a woman who's only looking to hang and kill everyone that fucked up her life. There's a reason that we didn't see her brought back in the book, and it was (at least in part) because it made her revenge that much powerful when you did see her.

Secondly, let's get into how the show would go if they end it with the "eyes opening" route. The biggest reason I see that people do not want to see UnCat this season is because they feel it will take away the power of her death. If we only see her brought back to life and nothing more, the season will obviously end with a surprise but that will most certainly take away the impact of her death. People will be like, "Well damn, didn't see that coming" and that will be the end of it. Now let's move on to season 4... If this is how they ended it, we undoubtedly get the "Frey-Hanging-Fest" in season 4, but it would not be nearly as effective as the book. "As it happens, there was a witness... She don't speak, but she remembers..." That moment where she removes her hood is (okay, I'll suck it up and admit it) likely the most shocking moment in the series for me. It is, in my humble opinion, to golden of an opportunity for good television to take away it's power by showing her as "alive and well" before any of this goes down. Then the shock will have died down by the time you actually find out she's out for revenge. The reaction will be more like "Okay, she wants to kill the Freys. Gotcha, that's understandable", while if the first time you see Cat back is to stare into the eyes of her enemies with those dead eyes as they die, the response will be more like "OOOOHHHH SHIT- Freys, you have fuuucked up now!!!"

So do I think that it would be a cool ending to season 3 to reveal Lady Stoneheart? Yes, absolutely. But, I feel like if the idea is that the only way to make it work so early is to only show her revival, I would at this point prefer the show to just wait to do it until the end of season 4. It was one of my favorite moments in the whole show, and while I'm anxious to see it and think it could work at the end of season 3, I would rather them wait to show it instead of detract from that crazy moment to show it earlier. If they did it this season, my ideal way would be to show the same scene from the epilogue at the end, with the last shot being LS watching the Frey jerked up by the noose. If the problem was that they wouldn't have material for her in season 4 to make the ending lead somewhere, they can make up some story. They don't need to show her that much, in fact that would take away from it. I liked that afterwords she wasn't a huge character anymore- in fact, I still see her as being killed off. It was the end of her POV in the story, and it is the end of the Catelyn we knew. She obviously won't stay in this "life limbo" past the end of this series, so I don't feel like it will take away from her death no matter how soon they show it. All that would be needed in season 4 would be one or two scenes with the Brotherhood that show her briefly in some eerie manor.

Anyways, that post got way longer than I intended but I'm starting to feel pretty strongly about this. I love the show, and I'll probably enjoy whatever they do anyway, though.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

I wonder if there is a chance if we see her first hanging Lannisters instead of Freys, as tv audience probably will get more the idea of her revenge in that way.

[TomBadgerlock]

...

Nice post. I agree with the sentiments that that scene would translate amazingly to TV, especially if it were at some point in S4. But I feel that after the RW they need something positive to end S4. After all, with Theon getting tortured, Robb and Cat dying, Lannister's more powerful than ever, Tyrion out of power, Jon and Ygritte potentially separated, Talisa dying pregnant/losing her husband/being taken captive, Jaime losing appendages, and so on, they need a really powerful "FUCK YEAH!" moment so to avoid viewers feeling like the show is just going to keep depressing them.

Weiss said in interviews that he wanted the season to be "horrifying and surprising in equal measure", after all.

[Tori Targaryen]

Yeah I think if they simply portrayed the epilogue as it appears in the book, it would be a very good cliffhanger for next year. Let's face it, most, if not, all TV show only people will never expect her to rise again once they see her die. It would be a great moment.

[thewalkindude19]

I had a very vivid image the other day of the episode opening with a silent shot of The Twins the next morning, a low mist on the ground, the burned tents and slain Northmen in the grounds. Cut to a slow tracking shot through the main hall. It's a mess; broken, oveturned tables, blood and corpses everywhere. The camera gets closer and closer to the dais, and there, in the chair, is Robb with Grey Wind's head sewn onto his body. Cut to outside, where a few Freys (perhaps Black Walder and Lame Lothar) throw Cat's naked body into the river.

Then, we see dozens of ravens flying from The Twins, which leads into the next scene; Balon receiving news at Pyke about Robb's death. This could lead into his death, and from there, the ravens could connect the scenes, much like the red comet did in the S2 premier.

Probably won't happen, but I thought it was a nice idea.

[Abyssalix]

I think Season 3 will end with Joffery's Death, the wedding was referenced too much to be left for next year, i believe the battle of castle black will be at the next season, Ygritte's death will give the season a good start , plus there are alot of stuff that didn't happen yet, Sansa leaving will be at the end of season 3, so in season 4 we will witness her arrival in the vale, this alone can take up to 4 episodes, then killing lysa at episode 7 , and Tyrion killing tywin at season 4, probably at episode 9, fleeing to essos. A lot of stuff are happening next season, so i am certain joffery will die this season.

[LordStoneheart]

Don't know when LS will appear on the show, but i have a feeling D&D will establish right away that we are not rooting for her revenge. She is a villian from the start.

Speak for yourself, Lady Stoneheart is nothing but a hero to me and always will be. The best heroes are those who seek revenge. That's why so many people reference the Inigo Montoya thing. No one accuses the Red Viper of being a villain, and he kept a grudge over one family member for fifteen years.

I am 100% rooting for her revenge.

[the_one_who_was_promised]

Personally, as it is looking increasingly likely that the PW will be shown in Season 4, I think it would be more beneficial to show Cat's resurrection at the end of Episode 9 or in Episode 10 of the current season. After Rob's death, I would have thought that it'd be necessary to show something indicative of giving the Starks some form of hope in the form of Cat being revived. Remember that many fans of the TV show will not be familiar with events in the books and I'm familiar with many viewers who have said that they were rooting for the Starks ever since Ned Stark died. Of course, we know that Lady Stonehart will not be the same Cat we used to know and appreciate, however many TV viewers may not be immediately aware of that. All that we may safely assume at this stage is that they may be eager for the demise of the Lannisters (Joffrey in particular IMO) particularly in light of Rob's death and may root for the remaining Starks (of which Bran and Rickon are thought to be dead by Cat, Arya is unlikely to be reunited with her mother anytime soon and Sansa is in a very bad way in KL), so I am sure that the producers will be aware that some succour will be needed for the viewers in the form of Cat being revived, as this may (temporarily at least) give hope that the Starks may have the last word after all.

[bobbybuilderton]

In this episode, Tyrion should be discussing the RW with Tywin and ask him if they really want people who would betray their king, break guest right, and mock Tully funeral customs as allies. Tywin should then say that the Freys will be cursed forever and get what's coming to them, so they don't have to worry about that. Then next season have people talking about a shade or demon that's hunting down Freys, eventually revealed as Catelyn. You know how stories tend to twist into legend as time passes. That'd be cool

[Arkash]

So... let us wonder how Jon's arc will finish this season...

I just reread the chapter of his return at Castle Black and many things happen in it.

He first meet Donal Noyle in the armory, where he learns the rumors that he is a turncloack.

Then he is taken to Maester Aemon and Clydas and is given first healing there while trying to explain the situation to Aemon and Donal while thinking a lot of Ygritte.

He then falls asleep (thanks Milk of the Puppy) and wakes up exhausted and weak. And there are Pyp and Grenn telling him about the Fist and the Mutiny, then Aemon telling him about Winterfell and Bran and Rickon.

And so he falls back asleep dreaming of Ygritte.

So how do we think this will be adapted ?

My take :

Return at Castle Black. He meets Maester Aemon there (are there any rumors of Peter Vaughn appearing this season ?) and is given first healing while Pyp, Grenn and Dolorous Edd come into the study and we have all the discussions in one scene before Jon falls asleep... his turncloack on the order of the Halfhand, the news of the death of the Old Bear, the disapearing of Sam, the fall of Winterfell, etc... and of course him warning them about the arrival of Mance and his gigantic army, to which Aemon might very well state that they are definitly not ready.

It could be a great ending scene if done that way. What do you think ?

[Claymore]

Based on the last being called "For the Realm", I am now doubtful that the season will end with Catelyn's resurrection (though I hope we get to see the part where Nymeria pulls her out of the river). Right now, the most likely ending seems to be the beginning of Mance's siege.

[Father of Dragons]

My take :

Return at Castle Black. He meets Maester Aemon there (are there any rumors of Peter Vaughn appearing this season ?) and is given first healing while Pyp, Grenn and Dolorous Edd come into the study and we have all the discussions in one scene before Jon falls asleep... his turncloack on the order of the Halfhand, the news of the death of the Old Bear, the disapearing of Sam, the fall of Winterfell, etc... and of course him warning them about the arrival of Mance and his gigantic army, to which Aemon might very well state that they are definitly not ready.

It could be a great ending scene if done that way. What do you think ?

I've not seen anywhere that Aemon returns. Pyp, I'm sure, does. It may be that he arrives at Castle Black and Pyp shouts to everyone that Jon's back. No Thorne or Slynt, but several men could run out the gate and surround him for being a turncloak. He could then even shout that the wildling are attacking. That would be a good cliffhanger for his story, IMO

[Father of Dragons]

I had a very vivid image the other day of the episode opening with a silent shot of The Twins the next morning, a low mist on the ground, the burned tents and slain Northmen in the grounds. Cut to a slow tracking shot through the main hall. It's a mess; broken, oveturned tables, blood and corpses everywhere. The camera gets closer and closer to the dais, and there, in the chair, is Robb with Grey Wind's head sewn onto his body. Cut to outside, where a few Freys (perhaps Black Walder and Lame Lothar) throw Cat's naked body into the river.

With the orchestral version of "The Rains of Castamere" playing in the background

[six]

Nice post. I agree with the sentiments that that scene would translate amazingly to TV, especially if it were at some point in S4. But I feel that after the RW they need something positive to end S4. After all, with Theon getting tortured, Robb and Cat dying, Lannister's more powerful than ever, Tyrion out of power, Jon and Ygritte potentially separated, Talisa dying pregnant/losing her husband/being taken captive, Jaime losing appendages, and so on, they need a really powerful "FUCK YEAH!" moment so to avoid viewers feeling like the show is just going to keep depressing them.

Did the other two season end on a positive note? I don't quite remember much positive, tbqh. With the exception of Dany, she always ends the season bringing something new in.

Speak for yourself, Lady Stoneheart is nothing but a hero to me and always will be. The best heroes are those who seek revenge. That's why so many people reference the Inigo Montoya thing. No one accuses the Red Viper of being a villain, and he kept a grudge over one family member for fifteen years.

I am 100% rooting for her revenge.

Except in her revenge she's also killing people who have done nothing to her, but she wants to kill them anyway because they serve someone who wronged her. She's very much on the verge of being a villain, especially after the deal with Brienne who has done nothing but try to keep her promise to Cat, and has nearly died several times in the process.

[TomBadgerlock]

Did the other two season end on a positive note? I don't quite remember much positive, tbqh. With the exception of Dany, she always ends the season bringing something new in.

No, not really. But the RW is just that bad that I hope they can contrast it with something more positive.

[The Lord of Cinder]

No, not really. But the RW is just that bad that I hope they can contrast it with something more positive.

MHYSA, MHYSA, MHYSA!

Could be, but the fact there is a track on the soundtack after the "Mhysa" track makes me believe we'll have another scene after that one.

[Dysun]

MHYSA, MHYSA, MHYSA!

Could be, but the fact there is a track on the soundtack after the "Mhysa" track makes me believe we'll have another scene after that one.

For the Realm really makes me think of Jon, but a cliffhanger battle ender would be terribly disappointing after The fist of the first men last year. They cannot skip the castle black or wall battles (if they aren't merged)

[Titan]

Despite the track listing, I still think the UnCat reveal will be the final shot of the season. They've just set up too much this season to avoid it... They haven't built up the resurrection and character of Beric without giving him a final scene where he can "make it up to Arya". (Remember, the show does not do flashbacks)

And I don't agree with someone (I forget who) that argued that the UnCat reveal this season should be exactly like the book reveal (hanging Freys). That would be ridiculous given the timeline.

[mystikherb]

Despite the track listing, I still think the UnCat reveal will be the final shot of the season. They've just set up too much this season to avoid it... They haven't built up the resurrection and character of Beric without giving him a final scene where he can "make it up to Arya". (Remember, the show does not do flashbacks)

And I don't agree with someone (I forget who) that argued that the UnCat reveal this season should be exactly like the book reveal (hanging Freys). That would be ridiculous given the timeline.

That'd be me. And it would be easy enough to change the timeline for it. It'd be infinitely better than the resurrection scene. That would (in my opinion) ruin just about everything about her coming back.

[Fychan]

That would be WAY too soon for Lady Stoneheart to appear, she's only been dead for one episode. It would be a cool finale, but I don't think it's going to happen.

Agree I think the Lady Stoneheart reveal at Frey hanging would be a great start to season 4.