Interviewing Bryan Cogman

[Spidey]

Grenn reads a mean Kraznyz?? I so want to hear that!

[Currawong]

The fact that he has been changed is not the problem for non-book readers, it is the type of character which he has been changed into and how his character is used. He's shown as little more than a power-hungry whore who, for no good reason, reveals his family's plan to some random squire. It is so obviously a device to move the plot along, but a bad one and a not very believable one.

But again your problem is not the issue of what appears on TV screens - your issue (see my bolding) is changes from the books. Power hungry? Well, I suppose Loras did arrive with Tywin Lannister at the head of the armies after Blackwater. I guess that makes him power hungry in your eyes? And so what if Loras wants a bit of casual sex? That's not inconsistent with his character in either books or show, and if you believe that it is so 'unusual' or unbelievable for a person to give away secrets after having sex, then (leaving aside any issues of RL experience of course!) you must not have been watching the plots of very many movies or TV shows. The use of casual sex as a plot device is hardly revolutionary! :D

[1234567]

Fantastic interview and it is interesting to see why changes were made. The lack of Patchface and the late introduction of the Tullys make slightly more sense.

Would have been nice to ask why they feel the need to whitewash Tyrion so much though.

[Lord Godric]

But again your problem is not the issue of what appears on TV screens - your issue (see my bolding) is changes from the books. Power hungry? Well, I suppose Loras did arrive with Tywin Lannister at the head of the armies after Blackwater. I guess that makes him power hungry in your eyes? And so what if Loras wants a bit of casual sex? That's not inconsistent with his character in either books or show, and if you believe that it is so 'unusual' or unbelievable for a person to give away secrets after having sex, then (leaving aside any issues of RL experience of course!) you must not have been watching the plots of very many movies or TV shows. The use of casual sex as a plot device is hardly revolutionary! :D

...that's sort of the point. Actually, no sort of, it IS the point. Lazy, sloppy writing.

[Currawong]

If you are going to label something as sloppy writing every time a plot device is re-used, it is a wonder you can find any movie or TV show TO watch. :D

I understand that you had issues with the Loras scenes and that is fine because that is your opinion. Myissue was your sweeping statement that 'the majority of viewers' would also have those problems and share that opinion, especially when so many of them are 'show only' viewers and have no idea about Book Loras at all.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

Great interview, the one question I wish somebody would ask Brian Cogman or any of the show runners is the complete absence of Nymeria on the show.

Why can't somebody just mention once in a while about a great she-wolf leading a large pack in the Riverlands causing havoc. Seems like something like that would be pretty easy to do and would cost nothing and would take up very little time.

[Lord Godric]

If you are going to label something as sloppy writing every time a plot device is re-used, it is a wonder you can find any movie or TV show TO watch. :D

I understand that you had issues with the Loras scenes and that is fine because that is your opinion. Myissue was your sweeping statement that 'the majority of viewers' would also have those problems and share that opinion, especially when so many of them are 'show only' viewers and have no idea about Book Loras at all.

For the record, all I meant was that the vast majority of viewers won't have Brian's reasoning, they'll only have, what I consider, a sloppy scene. I don't think you even need to be a book fan to realize that "gay man has sex with first bright eyed young boy he sees and spills secrets" is sloppy, and that is all TV viewers will have to judge. Nothing more.

[sillent]

Great interview -- Cogman is awesome

[Ser Cookie Monster]

Calidad,

It was brought up, but it'll be a topic for a later interview (yes, hoping to have another one at the end of the season, though likely briefer),

Dread Pirate,

People make too much of the black hair thing. The specific details we have are this:

1) All Baratheon-Lannister pairings lead to black-haired children.

2) All of Robert's natural children had black hair.

Together, this leaves room for Stannis to have non-blackhaired children with a non-Lannister, as there's no reason he needs the supernaturally-dominant black hair gene(s) that Robert appears to possess.

It was like that in the books, but in the show they dropped the Baratheon + Lannister = balck of hair detail, and just said that Baratheon = black of hair. So, I think it is quite a big deal.

[Dove]

Great interview, Ran. Cogman is an insightful dude, and a lot more open and less hush-hush than some of the others.

Grenn reads a mean Kraznyz?? I so want to hear that!

I know, that sounds hilarious. I'd love to be able to hear clips of Grenn reading for random characters.

[Jory]

I take some issue with the whole "Stannis the Mannis fans see him as superhuman". Not at all, man, obviously not - he has failings, obviously, and is certainly a grey character (although in my mind one more light than dark). I guess, maybe, we just don't spend enough time with Stannis - or the time we do spend with him we focus on his relationship with Melisandre, which ultimately wasn't the main part of his storyline to begin with. Unlike some people, I don't actually care what color hair the actor has. I care about maintaining character consistency. Stannis' writing has, in general, seemed inconsistent and strange in many parts. Take the whole "son" arc. We still have characters talking like Melisandre bore Stannis a son and that somehow is a big thing. It wasn't a son. It was some weird shadow demon thing, and it isn't like Stannis is about to make it his heir. Tell me you at least agree, in part, with what I'm saying here. I find it hard to believe you could find issue with Loras' and Catelyn's scenes (which I agree were bad) but not Stannis'. Maybe I'm too attached to the character, but I like him. I like characters that struggle with evil and ultimately do good, to put things in pretty black and white terms.

a) The scene where Stannis made Davos his hand last season seemed strange and out of place to me, for instance. It should come later, for many reasons.

B) Stannis was relieved when Davos returned and spoke to him kindly - he didn't throw him in a cell, that was Axell Florent. I'm not really happy with how the show has treated their relationship in general. Stannis does things like correct Davos on his fucking grammar usage in the show, whereas in similar scenes in the books he says "I told you my lady, my onion knight tells me the truth" (along with about fifty other positive lines about Davos). Why were those lines added and actually important ones stripped away?

c) Stannis wanting to make out with Melisandre was obviously out of character. He uses her, just like she uses him. Moments of weakness are fine, weird, creepy, needy babytalk is not.

d) Stannis is too emotional in general on the show. He just is. Even the scenes where he's doing badass things like chopping people's heads off are completely out of place for the character.

[Words of Winter]

Dread Pirate,

People make too much of the black hair thing. The specific details we have are this:

1) All Baratheon-Lannister pairings lead to black-haired children.

2) All of Robert's natural children had black hair.

Together, this leaves room for Stannis to have non-blackhaired children with a non-Lannister, as there's no reason he needs the supernaturally-dominant black hair gene(s) that Robert appears to possess.

Thanks for responding.

I thought in the book of the high houses of the realm in season 1/book 1, every Baratheon going back centuries had "hair of black" not just Robert's natural children or Baratheon/Lannister parings.

Perhaps I missunderstood. It happens.

[Ran]

"Stannis the Mannis" fans is not the same thing as Stannis fans. I have seen plenty of the former who really have an overblown picture of Stannis. But certainly, there are many who are thoughtful and aware of his flaws and allow him room for human failings.

[Dragonstoned]

despite what some Stannis fans say

Cheeky fokker!

And yeah 'Stannis the Mannis' fans take the love a bit too far. Though I thought it was the show that started it as the term 'Mannis' (worst word ever) only came about after Blackwater.

[Frumpus]

The fact that he has been changed is not the problem for non-book readers, it is the type of character which he has been changed into and how his character is used. He's shown as little more than a power-hungry whore who, for no good reason, reveals his family's plan to some random squire. It is so obviously a device to move the plot along, but a bad one and a not very believable one.

It's still a more prominent role for him than in the books. I don't see show only viewers complaining.

[Dragonstoned]

It's still a more prominent role for him than in the books. I don't see show only viewers complaining.

Maybe they would complain if they had read the (arguably) superior book version of events? Or maybe they wouldn't be bothered which lots of bookreaders aren't, fairly enough. But for some, if you eat caviar every day it's difficult to return to sausages.

[Joyful Union]

The fact that he has been changed is not the problem for non-book readers, it is the type of character which he has been changed into and how his character is used. He's shown as little more than a power-hungry whore who, for no good reason, reveals his family's plan to some random squire.

Talk about judgmental. He had sex with one squire, months after his lovers death. Doesn't make him a whore.

[Khal Porno]

Maybe they would complain if they had read the (arguably) superior book version of events? Or maybe they wouldn't be bothered which lots of bookreaders aren't, fairly enough. But for some, if you eat caviar every day it's difficult to return to sausages.

First of all I don't think book Loras is superior to show Loras based on one sentence of dialogue (which I will point out was then remarked upon as a false/naive/immature sentiment by another character in the book), and second of all calling a minor character "caviar" is hyperbolic. Not to mention condescending to other book readers who don't share your lofty opinion of said character, since the implication is that we aren't sophisticated enough to understand how elegant his portrayal truly is.

[Dragonstoned]

First of all I don't think book Loras is superior to show Loras based on one sentence of dialogue (which I will point out was then remarked upon as a false/naive/immature sentiment by another character in the book), and second of all calling a minor character "caviar" is hyperbolic. Not to mention condescending to other book readers who don't share your lofty opinion of said character, since the implication is that we aren't sophisticated enough to understand how elegant his portrayal truly is.

Thanks Duke, I had hoped the caviar comment would be seen for what it is (i.e. tongue-in-cheek) but nbd. Probably worth pointing out that caviar was the books and the show sausages, I thought you would realise. And I can't be sophisticated either because caviar isn't even that nice.

Away from metaphors, do you think show Loras is superior then? I wonder if adjustments to his character have anything to do with him now being heir.

[Currawong]

Away from metaphors, do you think show Loras is superior then? I wonder if adjustments to his character have anything to do with him now being heir.

I'd say that's an important part of it, especially where he's more involved in the actual 'game of thrones'. Younger son Book Loras could afford to be 'just' the knight of the flowers who was good at knocking people off horses with a stick (I always LOL @ Olenna there) but only-son-and-heir Show Loras has to be more deeply involved in his family's machinations. And if you are the Tyrell heir, you know you are going to have to marry and have heirs for dynastic reasons: it doesn't mean that Show Loras's love for Renly was any less devoted and genuine, but it does add a subtly different aspect to his sexual affairs. It even adds a touch of sadness to the Loras/Renly love, as it puts Show Loras in the same situation as Renly himself was, being expected to/forced to marry.