[BOOK SPOILERS] Gendry and Melisandre Scene

[Ser Cookie Monster]

I'm just saying the term has been misused a thousand times on these boards. It has nothing to do with the poster's opinion on the scene. If you notice, I just spoke about the term. I did not write "what you say is bullshit", or "listen to me while I mock you for your opinion". Because DarkAndFullOfTurnips was using the term ironically. Did you notice it? The term "character assassination" has a very precise meaning, and this was the (imaginary) 10.000th time someone utterly misused it (although on purpose, this time). The fact that a poster did not like the scene is a totally different matter, which I never questioned, nor mocked. You should really lighten up, it's not like these boards are about matters of life and death. And again, I just said nearly noone is using the term for what it means.

Has the term been miss-used? Yes, many times. Has the term been mentioned in this thread? No. And yet you and the other poster decide to throw your little joke here; in one of the few threads where it has never been mentioned. DarkAndFullOfTurnips’ coment was sarcastic and ironic, but it was in respond to another poster’s opinion on why he thinks Gendry shouldn’t have screamed like that. Which leads me to believe that he is mocking the other poster, and claiming that the othe poster is calling it a “character assassination” instead of simply presenting his arguments. I’m calm, sorry if it doesn’t sound like that. But I think that instead of saying that kind of jokes, which are mocking people who have incorrectly used the term, you should explain people why you think they are miss-using the term, and why a “character assassination” hasn’t happened.

[Young Nan]

Do leeches really hurt that badly?

They don't hurt at all, they secrete an anesthetic into your skin when they latch on, anticoagulants too to make the blood come out easier.

I think he was just freaked out.

[The Mondrian Oak]

Has the term been miss-used? Yes, many times. Has the term been mentioned in this thread? No. And yet you and the other poster decide to throw your little joke here; in one of the few threads where it has never been mentioned. DarkAndFullOfTurnips’ coment was sarcastic and ironic, but it was in respond to another poster’s opinion on why he thinks Gendry shouldn’t have screamed like that. Which leads me to believe that he is mocking the other poster, and claiming that the othe poster is calling it a “character assassination” instead of simply presenting his arguments. I’m calm, sorry if it doesn’t sound like that. But I think that instead of saying that kind of jokes, which are mocking people who have incorrectly used the term, you should explain people why you think they are miss-using the term, and why a “character assassination” hasn’t happened.

Well, I didn't say it was the 10.000th time the term had been misused SPECIFICALLY in this thread. If you look at the thread list, you'll see there's one about the "continued character assassination of Stannis", when nothing of the sort happened; the poster later admitted he misused the term. What I'm saying is that since Ran first used regarding Cat's speech in episode 2, almost everyone has been using it to say "the scene did not meet my taste". The meaning of the term has been clearly explained lots of times on these boards, to prevent further misuse, yet the message has not come across. I'm no teacher to "teach" anything, nor anyone needs me to "teach" them something.

I just find it funny that many here use codified terms that now have barely any meaning. Torture porn regarding Theon, moral greyness regarding Tyrion, Mary Sue regarding Margaery, male gaze regarding nude scenes, cringeworthy regarding dialogue, character assassination regarding everyone and everything. I know, explaining things with one's one words is harder. Still, all the above mentioned terms have been repeated and misused so many times, that I find it hard to think "hey, this opinion is really well structured and reliable" when they're used.

Again, not that what I think matters even the tiniest bit. That's just what I feel when I read those words again, and again.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

Well, I didn't say it was the 10.000th time the term had been misused SPECIFICALLY in this thread.

Which is exactly why you shouldn't have mentioned it HERE.

If you look at the thread list, you'll see there's one about the "continued character assassination of Stannis", when nothing of the sort happened; the poster later admitted he misused the term.

Well, he admitted his mistake, didn't he?

What I'm saying is that since Ran first used regarding Cat's speech in episode 2, almost everyone has been using it to say "the scene did not meet my taste".

Yes, many here don't know how to use the term. But that's not true they don't use it to say "the scene did not meet my taste". They just overreact and use it to say that they think somehting was "out of character".

The meaning of the term has been clearly explained lots of times on these boards, to prevent further misuse, yet the message has not come across. I'm no teacher to "teach" anything, nor anyone needs me to "teach" them something.

You're no teacher to "teach" them, but who are you to mock them?

I just find it funny that many here use codified terms that now have barely any meaning. Torture porn regarding Theon, moral greyness regarding Tyrion, Mary Sue regarding Margaery, male gaze regarding nude scenes, cringeworthy regarding dialogue, character assassination regarding everyone and everything. I know, explaining things with one's one words is harder. Still, all the above mentioned terms have been repeated and misused so many times, that I find it hard to think "hey, this opinion is really well structured and reliable" when they're used.

Maybe they started using those terms because at this point some changes are really really bad. Many many people use those terms incorrectly, I won't deny it. But some people actually use them correctly, and not everybody uses them.

Again, not that what I think matters even the tiniest bit. That's just what I feel when I read those words again, and again.

I just feel that some people are mocking other posters when I read those jokes again, and again.

[The Mondrian Oak]

You're no teacher to "teach" them, but who are you to mock them?

I just feel that some people are mocking other posters when I read those jokes again, and again.

Mocking? Come on. I made a light remark, you didn't find it funny, that's it. Mocking is an entirely different thing. I've never said to anyone "what are you, backwards?" or "everything you say is bullshit", at least not in this forum. Stop it here, please. Let's get back to the general discussion.

[Ser Cookie Monster]

Mocking? Come on. I made a light remark, you didn't find it funny, that's it.

You're right, I didn't find it funny, but that's not it. It wasn't a light remark, nor the right place to do it, it was a very bad joke.

Mocking is an entirely different thing.

Mock. Isn't that what you and the other poster were doing?

I've never said to anyone "what are you, backwards?" or "everything you say is bullshit", at least not in this forum.

That's not mocking, that's being completely offensive, wihich you haven't done.

Stop it here, please.

I'll drop it here just because you're asking nicely.

Let's get back to the general discussion.

As long as you don't bring your bad jokes back to the discussion.

[Onion Seaworth]

I can't stand this... like 80 % crying over a sex scene.

Magic is more potent with sex, alchemy, blood etc. This is common folklore.

Bitching about mel...

talking about pointless nudity...

Was the nudity in the books always justified aswell?

In my opinion there is more ''pointless'' nudity in the books...

Gendry begging for mercy, well... There can be over 100 scenarios in his head right there.

Being leeched untill death might have been one of them. Stop complaining over every detail.

[Master Forel's Fro]

I can't stand this... like 80 % crying over a sex scene.

Magic is more potent with sex, alchemy, blood etc. This is common folklore.

Bitching about mel...

talking about pointless nudity...

Was the nudity in the books always justified aswell?

In my opinion there is more ''pointless'' nudity in the books...

Gendry begging for mercy, well... There can be over 100 scenarios in his head right there.

Being leeched untill death might have been one of them. Stop complaining over every detail.

I think the issue is 1000 pages compared to 10 episode, the book sex:story ratio balances out whereas they have limited time and budget for the show and they are WASTING it on TOO many UNNECESSARY to the story sex scenes

[Khal Porno]

I thought this entire scene was excellent, and definitely one of the better sex scenes in the series.

[Khal Porno]

I think the issue is 1000 pages compared to 10 episode, the book sex:story ratio balances out whereas they have limited time and budget for the show and they are WASTING it on TOO many UNNECESSARY to the story sex scenes

They also have too much unnecessary humor. They are spending too much time on jokes that they could better use to make Tyrion look like an evil douche bag like he is in the books, or having the Hound talk about his depressing backstory or Arya being a stone-cold killer. There's too much heavy-handed drama to be included for them to be wasting time with levity.

[Versiroth]

I'm just glad they got the leech scene in. Nudity never bothers me, so over all, not a bad scene.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

In my opinion there is more ''pointless'' nudity in the books...

Agree. Cersei's walk is just a excuse to have her naked and describe her aging body. Idem for the mirysh swamp and Dany and her handmaid/Daario and her dresses with only one boob.

[silentwanderer]

I can't stand this... like 80 % crying over a sex scene.

Magic is more potent with sex, alchemy, blood etc. This is common folklore.

Bitching about mel...

talking about pointless nudity...

Was the nudity in the books always justified aswell?

In my opinion there is more ''pointless'' nudity in the books...

Gendry begging for mercy, well... There can be over 100 scenarios in his head right there.

Being leeched untill death might have been one of them. Stop complaining over every detail.

I could understand the uproar if we were all tweens sneaking to watch a nude scene the first time, but I assume we are old enough to understand the difference between an actual sex scene and the leeches Melisandre used to perform the spell.

Edric Strom was supposed to be burned to death after they leeched him, so he might have gone though the exact same thing offscreen.

Not to mention, the sacrifice is still a very real possibility if the leeches pan out.

I'm more concerned about "death by fire is the purest death" when it comes to Gendry.

[ChromeWeasel]

They don't hurt at all, they secrete an anesthetic into your skin when they latch on, anticoagulants too to make the blood come out easier.

I think he was just freaked out.

My take on this was that you don't know where the leeching is going to end. I wouldnt be worried about a simple leeching, especially in the times where this was considered a health treatment. But I'd be damned nervous after getting tied up, with two lords walking in to watch a demonstration of a witch's powers, where I appear to be the demonstration.

[Maizel]

Van Houten is an absolute beauty, I'm not complaining about a few seconds of nudity.

[Buzzard16]

My take on this scene is Mel still has every intention of sacrificing Gendry at a later date. This was as she said clearly," He didn't believe in the power of kings blood, he wanted a demonstration." Speaking of Davos. The leeching is the demonstration and fulfills a necessary part of her plan. The seduction was to lull him into a false sense of security so she could strap him down and have the time needed to leech him. He freaks out because he doesn't have any idea where this is going or how it will end since she seems to take all of this with a cavalier attitude. And with this done, he will think the worst is over, again falling into a false sense of security. With no real harm done, and with Stannis and Davos there taking this all in stride, Gendry will feel like they have used him for their purposes. Only the real plan is to sacrifice him.

[Khal Pono]

My take on this scene is Mel still has every intention of sacrificing Gendry at a later date. This was as she said clearly," He didn't believe in the power of kings blood, he wanted a demonstration." Speaking of Davos. The leeching is the demonstration and fulfills a necessary part of her plan. The seduction was to lull him into a false sense of security so she could strap him down and have the time needed to leech him. He freaks out because he doesn't have any idea where this is going or how it will end since she seems to take all of this with a cavalier attitude. And with this done, he will think the worst is over, again falling into a false sense of security. With no real harm done, and with Stannis and Davos there taking this all in stride, Gendry will feel like they have used him for their purposes. Only the real plan is to sacrifice him.

The sacrifice is still up for negotiation. Melisandre wants to kill him and indeed had convinced Stannis that sacrifice was the way to go.

Davos (the angel on Stannis's shoulder) convinced Stannis that sacrificing an innocent person is wrong.

So as a comprimise--and as a display of her power--Melisandre (reluctantly?) agreed to go with the leeches approach. Then, after the 3 kings Stannis curses through blood magic actually DIE, the implication will be... if his even a little of his blood has this much power, think what wonders we can accomplish if we spill *all* of his blood.

I think that Melisandre was probably planning on fucking Gendry either way (whether they sacrificed him or meerely leeched him), because she is a sex-fiend and because virile, lust-filled Kingsblood is more potent.

[jugdesh258]

BOOK SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If these leeches are meant to be the demise of the king counterparts, then wouldn't Jon be extreamly pissed when he finds out that she had a hand in Roberts end?

As for Gendry, I think she still plans on burning him, once the leeches have run their course if you know what I mean. It will be at this point that Davos will smuggle him away and tell Stannis to go North. Just my humble opinion. As for the nudity, look its how it is and if you are surprised or upset by it at this point, get over it. I am sure there is something PBS you can watch.

I think it is just the timing that messes things up. Not going to look it up but I think the leech scene is late on the show with Rob already doomed on his way to the wedding. I don't think he had accepted his fate before the leech scene in the book. Really though if someone is cursed then it does not matter the way of it.

It is not as if anyone is ever sure the Leech ever worked or is coincidence after the fact so Tywin, frey and Bolton all get the blame.

Leeches was demonstration and is not same or in replacement of burining. Mel wants to burn Gendry because she thinks it will somehow bring the Stone Dragon to life.....although most think it is a prophecy misready as yoda might say

[Lady Arwen]

Well maybe the placement of the leeches needs to be in special places, so in order to draw a good amount of blood from his lil gendry she needed him to be full mast.

:agree:

[Mammothsbane]

BOOK SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If these leeches are meant to be the demise of the king counterparts, then wouldn't Jon be extreamly pissed when he finds out that she had a hand in Roberts end?

As for Gendry, I think she still plans on burning him, once the leeches have run their course if you know what I mean. It will be at this point that Davos will smuggle him away and tell Stannis to go North. Just my humble opinion. As for the nudity, look its how it is and if you are surprised or upset by it at this point, get over it. I am sure there is something PBS you can watch.

Not really. Stannis says the leeches didn't really do anything anyway. He makes a remark that the Red Wedding "seemed like Walder Frey's handywork" or something like that.

And Mel, IMO foresaw the deaths and then did the leeches to make it look like she had a hand in it.. but I don't think she really did.