What is the reason this series sucks in non-fantasy fans?

[OnionAhaiReborn]

sounds crazy i know, but this "book" or "series" is on another level that a normal man could not hope to create.

Does the fact that Martin has glimpsed another reality and written about it make his books less real as 'books' in our reality, thus necessitating the scare quotes? Does the same hold true for books ('books'?) written about our own reality? Should I be referring to history books not as books but as 'books'? Your words have raised more questions for me than they've answered.

[A Song of Tyrion's member]

It's strange, I think... We'll, maybe not. People either absolutely love the books or they just don't "get it", for lack of better words. I met a friend of a friend at a bar and, before getting to know the person, she told me that she didn't like the books because they were too slow, and then compared them to the fast paced fantasy books like The Hobbit (love The Hobbit, don't get me wrong) or the Harry Potter books. Needless to say, Valar Morghulis, and I never saw her again.

[Florina Laufeyson]

I think the word y'all are looking for is misogynist. God hates women, clearly. This is what I say to god.

Why didnt i see it before? My gods....A REVELATION!!

Does the fact that Martin has glimpsed another reality and written about it make his books less real as 'books' in our reality, thus necessitating the scare quotes? Does the same hold true for books ('books'?) written about our own reality? Should I be referring to history books not as books but as 'books'? Your words have raised more questions for me than they've answered.

Indeed. The worldview has been shattered.

[Dr. Pepper]

Does the fact that Martin has glimpsed another reality and written about it make his books less real as 'books' in our reality, thus necessitating the scare quotes? Does the same hold true for books ('books'?) written about our own reality? Should I be referring to history books not as books but as 'books'? Your words have raised more questions for me than they've answered.

I feel gutted. I don't know what's truth and what's not anymore. How do I know which "books" to read now? Which ones will reveal the "truth"? And what about music. Apparently the Beatles glimpsed these alternative dimensions. Why aren't these fools telling the scientists about this? I WANNA SEE A PLACE WHERE JON SNOW IS REAL!!!!!!!!

[The Mother of The Others]

Re: Beatles Remember the Bangles? Loved them.

This guy is getting funned real hard by everyone, but the basic sentiment was that Martin's fantasy world is so realistic to the point of being believable.

[The Great Walrus]

I feel gutted. I don't know what's truth and what's not anymore. How do I know which "books" to read now? Which ones will reveal the "truth"? And what about music. Apparently the Beatles glimpsed these alternative dimensions. Why aren't these fools telling the scientists about this? I WANNA SEE A PLACE WHERE JON SNOW IS REAL!!!!!!!!

Dr.P, your starting to scare me a little...

[The Sleeper]

I feel gutted. I don't know what's truth and what's not anymore. How do I know which "books" to read now? Which ones will reveal the "truth"? And what about music. Apparently the Beatles glimpsed these alternative dimensions. Why aren't these fools telling the scientists about this? I WANNA SEE A PLACE WHERE JON SNOW IS REAL!!!!!!!!

If that's the case about music I'd rather head for "Paradise City"

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

I feel like it is fantasy without so much fantasy, especially in AGOT. Dragons, warging/greenseeing don't really come until later.

[thecryptile]

Also, in regards to the OP, boobs.

This is it, in a nutshell. I personally quit reading fantasy in the mid-90s, because the genre was growing stale and predictable. Too many farm boys with mysterious origins, too many curmudgeonly wizards, magic jewels and talking animals. When I saw GoT on HBO, I recognized GRRM in the credits. I said "When did the Sandkings guy write a fantasy? I thought he was an SF writer. Maybe better check it out." Turns out, fantasy was getting good again when I abandoned it.

[Dr. Pepper]

Re: Beatles Remember the Bangles? Loved them.

This guy is getting funned real hard by everyone, but the basic sentiment was that Martin's fantasy world is so realistic to the point of being believable.

That's the basic sentiment, but not TC's basic sentiment. His basic sentiment is that there are alternate dimensions that GRRM has been privy to. He even says that no man who has never fought a battle could write about a broken man. I'm guessing he also believes that no man who's never had a vagina or even been near one can write about a woman?

[Tommens Cat]

Does the fact that Martin has glimpsed another reality and written about it make his books less real as 'books' in our reality, thus necessitating the scare quotes? Does the same hold true for books ('books'?) written about our own reality? Should I be referring to history books not as books but as 'books'? Your words have raised more questions for me than they've answered.

Ha. As I said I'm not arguing my opinion it's just that. An opinion. Is it unrealistic? Yes. Probable? No. Does it take away from the stories as a whole, or add anything to them? Not really. But, IMO (which is not worth a thought it seems) dismissing something because it's unrealistic is.... Hmmmm... Not human. It is common to reject outlandish ideas but we would be living on a flat earth still, had it not been been for humanities willingness to accept new ideas. I also believe, in a quantum universe with maybe millions of dimensions, anything is possible, even if it doesn't exist on our reality. Think a cube. You can draw it on paper but it doesn't exist on paper. Maybe 4d cube is better example. We can draw a 4d cube but it can not exist anywhere in our universe. Keyword.... Our

also, god has nothing to do with it. He(she/it) may not exist or exist in our dimension anyway.

[Tommens Cat]

That's the basic sentiment, but not TC's basic sentiment. His basic sentiment is that there are alternate dimensions that GRRM has been privy to. He even says that no man who has never fought a battle could write about a broken man. I'm guessing he also believes that no man who's never had a vagina or even been near one can write about a woman?

Have you ever killed anyone? I haven't. I could write some words on paper but they would just be words. Let a serial killer describe his or her victims. The fear in there eyes. The warmth of the blood. The smell of their shit. Ect. And the words are a reality. No one on earth has seen the realities that the characters in these 'books' (:) I only did that to separate words from realities. An in my book about killing people is a 'book'. The killers book is reality) but it doesn't make Jamie's, or Bran's realities in these books unbelievable to have existed sometime somewhere in reality, even if it is not ours.

I thought I made myself clear, maybe I really didn't and if not in sorry for dishonoring grrm and his writing capabilities. But there are some things that no one can explain, least of all myself. I wrote the original maybe to serious. But to reject an opinion (outlandish or not) is pretty weak minded. I'm sorry you have to live in this box your parents and our ancestors have created, and are fine with it. I'm not. I'm into exploring reality to the max even if I make myself seem... Stupid? To a bunch of people who, ultimately, do not effect my life and I do not effect yours.

[butterbumps!]

You can draw a 4d cube, and it can exist in our universe, because the 4d is time

on reflection, you might have meant a 4th spatial dimension, not time the way an engineer would, so maybe nvm.

[straits]

Have you ever killed anyone? I haven't. I could write some words on paper but they would just be words. Let a serial killer describe his or her victims. The fear in there eyes. The warmth of the blood. The smell of their shit. Ect. And the words are a reality. No one on earth has seen the realities that the characters in these 'books' ( :) I only did that to separate words from realities. An in my book about killing people is a 'book'. The killers book is reality) but it doesn't make Jamie's, or Bran's realities in these books unbelievable to have existed sometime somewhere in reality, even if it is not ours.

Reality is perceived by the observer and subsequently written down. There is but one reality, though there are many perceptions of it, and in your example, the serial killer could see the events he causes unfold in one way, whereas another of his like would describe it differently.

So the words are never a reality. They're a mapping of the reality, and some 'feel' better than others.

I thought I made myself clear, maybe I really didn't and if not in sorry for dishonoring grrm and his writing capabilities. But there are some things that no one can explain, least of all myself. I wrote the original maybe to serious. But to reject an opinion (outlandish or not) is pretty weak minded. I'm sorry you have to live in this box your parents and our ancestors have created, and are fine with it. I'm not. I'm into exploring reality to the max even if I make myself seem... Stupid? To a bunch of people who, ultimately, do not effect my life and I do not effect yours.

This is not an opinion which challenges a view on the series, but the view on our reality, and what we may 'see' from other realities.

[Tommens Cat]

You can draw a 4d cube, and it exists in our universe, because the 4d is time

Show me a 4d rock. Google it. Find me a 4d cup that I can drink out of. I understand time. Is like, if there is a crack one inch wide but 1 mile down and I jump over it I jumped over 2 miles. But that's not the same really as 4d existing in our 3d universe. There may be a2d universe where little circle people can draw cubes but they can't build one

[Tommens Cat]

Reality is perceived by the observer and subsequently written down. There is but one reality, though there are many perceptions of it, and in your example, the serial killer could see the events he causes unfold in one way, whereas another of his like would describe it differently.

So the words are never a reality. They're a mapping of the reality, and some 'feel' better than others.

This is not an opinion which challenges a view on the series, but the view on our reality, and what we may 'see' from other realities.

Oh i get you. I do. But going back to the killer only the killer and victim and any witnesses may speak to the reality of the killing. And if there are no witnesses and the victim is dead there exists only one reality. We can either believe the killer or no, but that doesn't change the truth

[butterbumps!]

Show me a 4d rock. Google it. Find me a 4d cup that I can drink out of. I understand time. Is like, if there is a crack one inch wide but 1 mile down and I jump over it I jumped over 2 miles. But that's not the same really as 4d existing in our 3d universe. There may be a2d universe where little circle people can draw cubes but they can't build one

see above, I edited-- I register "4d" as time, but I realized you might be talking about spatial dimensions.

Look, I was the one envious of your alternate dimension explanation (though, I suspect what you might have been appealing to is what Dante would call his "Beatrice" or "divine inspiration") so you don't have to sell me. The things I would do with an alternate dimension...

[Tommens Cat]

I'm not saying grrm has a magic ball he peeks in. Like I said I'm sorry if I explained myself wrong (on break at work) but it's more like a Greek muse. Unexplainable. We can debate dimensions and other concepts but I'm not trying to alter your guys point of view. Dr pepper is all up in arms like I'm challenging his view of the world. I simply answered the op question and an trying to follow up to make myself more clear.

Once again, I'm sorry if I offended anyone's point of view. I'm typing on a phone at work. But why would people who hate fantasy love asoiaf. Seems simple... It isn't fantasy

[straits]

Oh i get you. I do. But going back to the killer only the killer and victim and any witnesses may speak to the reality of the killing. And if there are no witnesses and the victim is dead there exists only one reality. We can either believe the killer or no, but that doesn't change the truth

Then for all effects and purposes we can look at deaths in asoiaf as needless to witness in order to create a sense of realism. Most were viewed in public as opposed to being in a theoretical box with no one to witness.

[Tommens Cat]

see above, I edited-- I register "4d" as time, but I realized you might be talking about spatial dimensions.

Look, I was the one envious of your alternate dimension explanation (though, I suspect what you might have been appealing to is what Dante would call his "Beatrice" or "divine inspiration") so you don't have to sell me. The things I would do with an alternate dimension...

:) I appreciate your trying to reason with me on this. I don't want to start any controversy. Really