[BOOK SPOILERS] Nitpick without repercussion?

[Ran]

I knew off the bat that people were going to complain about the liberation scene purely on racial terms. It really is just the population they have to work with, and one has to make allowances for the production. IT would have been nice if they could have featured a dozen different ethnicities, and also featured more words for "mother" than just "mhysa", but so it goes.

[Mendoza]

I don't like the scene on a Jar Jar Binks basis, the white savior stuff be damned. I don't care if its the correct pronunciation based on what they've come up with, say it differently.

[LilJonUmber]

In a word: underwhelming. I think we all expected more heading into the 9 1/2 month hiatus.

Now, maybe they were just going out of their way to avoid "one-upping" the impact of the RW in the very next episode, but I was disappointed either way. They excluded many scenes most of us figured would be included, and handled those that were included rather poorly, for the most part.

I'm really (really) hoping this was the kind of "setup" episode that we typically get in a season opener, that we'll now be spared in S4 x 01. If that's the reason why, and they're planning on starting season 4 off with a bang with the PW in episode 1, then in hindsight, I'll feel a whole lot better about this episode.

[Dove]

Maybe I'm giving them too much credit but it seems to me like Dany's whole "white savour" thing is being played straight just to further emphasize how much she really messes up, and how her actions lead to the region's destabilization in the long run, sorta like the books. I always thought it was pretty clever how that trope or whatever, usually so cringeworthy, was so thoroughly turned on its head. (not hating on Dany mind you I enjoy her character a lot)

also yeah production limitations, i'm probably reading too much into it

[SerCalius]

Apparently it's also one of GRRMs favorite fantasy films. But this further highlights the point: they're giving nods to other fictional dragon names when they can't even mention the dragon names from the book. Pathetic.

Fully agreed. I don't think they've named Grey Wind either and it'd be nice if Stranger gets named as well.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

Maybe I'm giving them too much credit but it seems to me like Dany's whole "white savour" thing is being played straight just to further emphasize how much she really messes up, and how her actions lead to the region's destabilization in the long run, sorta like the books. I always thought it was pretty clever how that trope or whatever, usually so cringeworthy, was so thoroughly turned on its head. (not hating on Dany mind you I enjoy her character a lot)

also yeah production limitations, i'm probably reading too much into it

Their is no "White Savior" angle being played. It's just people being overly sensitive and unreasonable. You just didn't see it when you read the books.

[Lord Martin]

Garbage with a few bright spots (Arya, Ramsay and Tywin).

But what really gets me is how many times we've seen interview clips of D&D talking about how excited they were for season 3. Then how the hell did you butcher it so badly??? Especially here at the end...

I really don't know where to begin:

Dany: Ending on that weird crowd surfing scene was unforgivable. Even my fiance, a non-book reader, had no clue what was going on... didn't she already take the city? What is she doing outside? The whole freedom angle was poorly done and should have been a larger theme in Dany's story line if this was to be the culmination.

Jaime: That was his homecoming to Cersei!?!?! What an utter let down. I realize internal monologue is tough to do on a show. But Jaime's musing on Cersei in ASOS are so good and really help us understand who Jaime is and just how much his sister means to him. There was no build up to this reunion, no tension, no inner anxt... none of the things that made Arya coming to close to home so heart breaking were present here... AND now Jaime is in KL for the Purple Wedding... thats not right! This is one of several major timeline screw ups that the show is now creating.

The Greyjoys: Hey remember these guys? Probably not since they haven't been around since early episodes in season 2. Would it have been that hard to give us a little iron born back story? I mean for one, what the hell is Yara doing on the Iron Islands??? She should have been at Deepwood. And are we not getting the King's Moot and Euron and Victarion? Balon 100% should have been killed in this episode right before the Stannis scenes. Would have been a nice teaser for the fans wondering if Mel really has powers...

Speaking of Mel, Stannis and Davos... I won't re-hash everything that was said but I really dislike what they've done with all these characters.

Arya was brilliant as usual, but if that scene means we don't get Polliver and the Tickler, then again a huge error on D&D's part, that scene is so important to who Arya is.

I dunno... given how much D&D hyped this season and how much excellent source material they had to work with, this was a bit of a disappointment and is certainly not how I would have preferred to see things done.

[Dove]

Their is no "White Savior" angle being played. It's just people being overly sensitive and unreasonable. You just didn't see it when you read the books.

I'm definitely not fussed about it myself, but to be fair I don't think it's reaching too much to see racial subtext in Dany's story - book and TV.

The whole "wise white person tames the savage ways of the Other Race and shows them enlightenment" thing is old as fiction, and surprisingly common even today. When you think about it it's not too big of a stretch to associate Dany with that trope, but I think it's handled in a very clever way in the end.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

I'm definitely not fussed about it myself, but to be fair I don't think it's reaching too much to see racial subtext in Dany's story - book and TV.

The whole "wise white person tames the savage ways of the Other Race and shows them enlightenment" thing is old as fiction, and surprisingly common even today. When you think about it it's not too big of a stretch to associate Dany with that trope, but I think it's handled in a very clever way in the end.

What I meant to say, and you are correct for elaborating, is that there is no additional white savior angle being played by the show-runners that isn't inherently there in the text. In fact almost all of the Essosi in aSoIaF are stereotypically savage dickheads that so far have been actually improved upon on TV, so this whole race debate is really puzzling.

[Jamie Lannister]

I knew off the bat that people were going to complain about the liberation scene purely on racial terms. It really is just the population they have to work with, and one has to make allowances for the production. IT would have been nice if they could have featured a dozen different ethnicities, and also featured more words for "mother" than just "mhysa", but so it goes.

I'm not too fazed by that; I was far more appalled at the season's big finish being comprised of Daenerys Targaryen bodysurfing.

The best way to describe it is a w-shaped word that rhymes with Reek.

[Tyrion_the_Oneironaut]

Wow, where to begin?

The hilights of this episode were the Freys parading Robb's body around, Davos' brass balls, Arya's vengeance and Sam being less bumbling than in the books.

Apart from that, this episode demonstrates how much the show gets wrong. When a scene doesn't call for wicked lords, or blood and shit they miss the mark by a large margin.

-Tyrion glosses over the fact that Sansa called her father a disgraced liar. He figured out what really happened to Ned, would Tyrion really remain silent to his new bride and let her think so horribly of her own father?

-Cersei seems to have stopped obssessing over Margaery...

-Jojen claims the White Walkers cannot be stopped by the Night's Watch or the realm of men. Forgive my internet memery but LOLWUT????? I echo Sam's response: 'and you're going to?'. One of the underlying themes of the books is the folly of man being so nearsighted and flawed as to not see their true enemy. D&D called the Red Wedding unpreventable(it wasn't) and they're saying the White Walker invasion is unpreventable as well(it isn't)

-Shae's porn acting makes me cringe. I half expected Varys to pull a double ended dildo out. Just in case you might have forgotten for a second, she's really, really really jealous of Sansa and is a bit of a 3rd wheel.

-Danaerys...where do I even begin? She's been resting on her laurels since episode 2, and the writers haven't replaced the Arstan storyline or her fears of betrayal. Now all she has to do is fart and her dragons come dress her like a Disney princess while brown slaves fawn over her and her boy toy cleans up the mess. I'm not sure if her living on Easy Street is brilliant irony and a setup for a massive comedown next season or bad writing but I'm leaning towards the latter.

-Jon Snow knows one thing: how to whine like a bitch and say he wants to go home

-Melisandre is supposed to be wishy-washy and play everything by ear, pretending she knew everything that was going to happen. I get that. But it's way too obvious on the show. Compare her to Thoros, who has such a commanding presence. She's practically a kitty cat. Setting fire to hethens would be a good start to getting her some more respectability.

-no Coldhands or Lady Stoneheart. Nearly everyone on this site was convinced she'd be in the ep since it was titled Mother. I was convinced, especially since they kept shoving the Freys down our throats all episode. Was so looking forward to a Frey hanging & begging for mercy too...

-not even a whiff of Mance Rayder. I thought episode 10 would be the battle for the Wall. When I saw Jon still trying to get back I then thought they'd cap the episode off with the Wildling army complete with giants, shadowcats and polar bears (oh my). But nah. Could have turned that into a season-long seige that came in waves, but I guess due to budgetary constraints that probably won't happen.

[Nami]

it bothers me that Sansa is the same girl she was in the first episode of the first season

just more depressed

[lyanna_maria]

I'm really starting to get annoyed with the "whitewashing" of some characters: especially Tyrion. I feel that the character in the books was, so, so, so much "grey", and this Tyrion is just "the good guy" and has no shades. He is way too kind to everybody. And his relationships with Cersei, Shae and Sansa, the three of them, are much better than they should be.

According to what I remember, Sansa never had a sincere conversation with her husband, let alone joke with him, tell him about her feelings or sharing childhood memories like they did today. Yes, I know they fixed it up with that tearful look when she found out about the RW, but still. Shae's true and powerful love for Tyrion has always bothered me; but this friendship with Sansa really pisses me off: how are they going to depict her betrayal and make it credible?

About Cersei, I just find it strange that she would share so many confidences with Tyrion. She even went to his chambers, looking for him, to share a drink with his brother. I don't know, even if they keep the atmosphere tense, I find it hard to believe.

And I was also very disappointed with Jaime and Cersei's reunion, and I wonder how will they fix this timeline mess.

[ckongo]

Ramsay would never sign a letter as "Snow."

Stannis is awful as usual. He's very trigger happy when it comes to killing people. First Gendry, then Davos (until his woman says otherwise). In the books he never actually concedes to killing Edric, although it seemed he was about to after major convincing and three deaths (so far there is 1 in the show).

The show is quite fond of spoiling things. Now we already know Stannis is going to the wall. No surprise. Same problem with Petyr freeing Sansa. Because of the issue with giving characters screen-time, we lose the mystery.

Why is Balon still alive? And now we have some new plot with Asha giving a damn about Theon and sailing off to the dreadfort. In the books she did not even know he was alive until ADWD.

Does Sansa actually enjoy being with Tyrion?

Varys believes Shae loves Tyrion? She is completely different from book Shae, but I'd assume she was just faking it. She gets way too much screen time.

Jaime should not be back before Joffrey's wedding.

[Cas Stark]

TV Shae DOES love Tyrion, otherwise she would have taken a giant bag of diamonds worth enough money for her to live on the rest of her life in style.

Balon should be alive, the audience needs to remember who he is before he gets killed, so I'm okay with that and the actor is fantastic.

The problem w/all the Stannis stuff is its underwritten so everything happens too quickly, the plot points lurch around unconvincingly. Another few minutes with that scene and it wouldn't have made Stannis seem like a puppet changing his mind within 2 seconds. Same with Mel. Give her some time to absorb the letter for crying out loud.

[Nami]

I was laughing, too. Last week, I was bummed that she didn't shoot him as he rode away, so this week, I was rolling on the floor when she shot him three times. And I was rooting for her to do it, too. And yes, Jon is my favorite character forever, but I didn't want to see Kit Harrington CRYING about his girlfriend. Geez. On rewatch, though, it didn't bother me as much. They'd both have been exhausted and upset and freaking out, and I can see the conversation going like that. Plus also arrows. I love that she kept shooting him, and obviously not wanting to kill him, because if she had wanted him to die, she would have shot the horse and then walked up to him and cut his throat. I love Ygritte.

idk why they need to spell out everything. the audience is not dumb

this scene was unnecessary to me

if she shot him while he was riding away the first time it would be enough to show what they truly are. jon a crow and ygritte a wildling, that they had feelings to each other was ALREADY showed to us in their previous scenes

it's like they have to spell out I LOVE YOU for the crowd to grasp the feelings. It's just stupid and annoys me endlessly

this scene was just for him to confess his undying LUV for her and redeem him for the last scene because he looked like a complete asshole and her the abandoned girlfriend in love.

Instead of just doing like in the original scene in the book, where it just balances everything.

Not only that but we're also gonna get now another undying love confession when she dies.

They make everything and everyone one dimensional.

[MarieAntoinette]

They could have traded the pointless Tyrion/Cersei scene for an extended Jaime / Cersei reunion. Their scene was way too short.

[lostinwesteros]

OK, here goes --

The closing scene with Dany/Yunkai slaves was lame, cheesy, and a poorly staged recycling of the story device where the camera panned up from the Fist of the First Men to show the dead horses arranged in a perfect spiral/circle shape (that one I thought was extremely well done). The whole crowd scene, the faces reaching out and chanting Mhysa was SO poorly acted, SO staged, So fake - the timing was off between facial expressions and chants/gestures . . . very poorly done which is not like D and D who I think, with relatively few exceptions, have done a very good job of scenes for the HBO series.

[Tquinn BC]

1. Butchering of Stannis

2. Arya should have stabbed that guy more

3. Dany...crowdsurfing? wtf?

4. Jaime and Cersi should have had wild, passionate reunion sex

5. No talking door, no cold hands

6. We get the Rat King instead of Summerhall

[The GreatRon]

I honestly try and tune my ASoIaF saturated brain off when I watch now. It makes it kind of enjoyable.

The timeline bothers me and too many reveals that are possibly later on book spoilers if what their showing is GRRM approved.

and Stannis...... ughhhhhhh