Lianne Stark Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Forgive me if this is being discussed elsewhere and I missed it, but did anyone else feel that the scene between Tywin/Tyrion pretty much confirmed that Tyrion is not Tywin's real son?-----------------------------------The Scene:Tyrion: When have you ever done something that wasn't in your interest, but solely for the benefit of the family?Tywin: The day that you were born! I wanted to carry you into the sea and let the waves wash you away. Instead, I let you live and I brought you up as my son.[DRAMATIC PAUSE]Because you're a Lannister!![WALKS OFF]------------------------------------Another meaning of 'as' is 'like'. Therefore: I brought you up like my son.I've read theories on here about Tyrion's parentage but I've not really given them much notice. However, I really felt in this scene that Tywin's choice of words and the way the scene was delivered, certainly implied Tyrion isn't Tywin's son. But as Joanna gave birth to him, it still makes him a Lannister.What does everyone else think? Apologies again if this has been discussed elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woel Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 No...... this is a ridiculous theory which is based solely on conjecture. "I brought you up as my son" is just used to contrast to "I didn't leave you in the sea as a monster baby". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMJ Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 No. If Tyrion were not truly Lannister blood, knowing Tywin, Tywin would not have raised Tyrion as a Lannister. To me, it confirms that in fact Tyrion is Tywin's son. The highlighted line from Tywin more emphasizes Tywin's disgust with Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted June 10, 2013 Share Posted June 10, 2013 Nope. Tyrion is a Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mammothsbane Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Forgive me if this is being discussed elsewhere and I missed it, but did anyone else feel that the scene between Tywin/Tyrion pretty much confirmed that Tyrion is not Tywin's real son?-----------------------------------The Scene:Tyrion: When have you ever done something that wasn't in your interest, but solely for the benefit of the family?Tywin: The day that you were born! I wanted to carry you into the sea and let the waves wash you away. Instead, I let you live and I brought you up as my son.[DRAMATIC PAUSE]Because you're a Lannister!![WALKS OFF]------------------------------------Another meaning of 'as' is 'like'. Therefore: I brought you up like my son.I've read theories on here about Tyrion's parentage but I've not really given them much notice. However, I really felt in this scene that Tywin's choice of words and the way the scene was delivered, certainly implied Tyrion isn't Tywin's son. But as Joanna gave birth to him, it still makes him a Lannister.What does everyone else think? Apologies again if this has been discussed elsewhere.I thought literally exactly the opposite. I thought this solidified the point that Tyrion is Tywin's son, and supported my counter-argument to the theory that if there was even the slightest bit of doubt of Tyrion's parentage, Tywin would have killed him. He knew Tyrion was his son, therefore he couldn't kill him. He is a Lannister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montey14 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Tyrion is is son.....confirmed by the red viper when he tells tyrion of his visit to casterly rock after his mother had died giving him birth.....I think HBO just wants to make it more dramatic for when tyrion has to do the deed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stag Country Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 If there is a potential secret Targ in the Lannister line it's Jaime and Cersei, not Tyrion. Tyrion is the one that is the most like Tywin.....and that's what pisses him off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frey-A-La-Mode Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 The whole thing with the Mad King raping Joanna Lannister and thus conceiving Tyrion... It is entirely possible it happened and Joanna never told Tywin about it. Because if she had, he might have gone to war with Aerys or killed him, and that would have started a war. So maybe she just kept her silence for the good of the realm. Anyway, it's hard to take things from the show as confirmations of theories or future events from the books, because at this point they diverge on a lot of things, so they show doesn't have to be canon for hte books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkDogg Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 First off, really good scene of a really good episode.Tyrion somehow not being Tywin' real son would be more shocking to me than the Red Wedding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonstar Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I agree with OP. I'm not a subscriber to the Secret Targ (other than Hot Pie), so have never given it a thought. However, the phrasing was *just* odd enough that I couldn't shake it off. The context was when had Tywin ever put others' desires in front of his. And this was basically Twins response. It basically sounded like if Tywin had his own way, he'd have let Tyrion die, but because he put someone he loved ahead of him for once (Johanna) he raised her son in her memory. At least let me say that the acting was so great that I "heard" all of the above in the few seconds worth of Dramatic Pause Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nami Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Tyrion is a Lannister (please the Targ theory is just ridiculous), it's just that Tywin can't accept the fact that a little "monster" like Tyrion came from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost Cat Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I thought this was one of the most achingly beautiful scenes of the whole series. Both Charles Dance and Peter Dinklage are excellent actors and told the viewers volumes in those negative spaces (as Dragonstar above so aptly phrased it). Twyin has never forgiven Tyrion for killing his wife. That he was a dwarf was just insult to injury. This is how I always read it in the books, and that's still how it came across to me in this scene. The unsullied need to know why Tywin is so hard on his youngest son. This told it beautifully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
voodooqueen126 Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Tywin's argument made no sense. Group orientated cultures have a much greater incentive to practice infanticide, especially when it comes to disabled infants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lostinwesteros Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 Not for me. I have no doubt that Tyrion is Tywin's son. It's just that Tywin wanted to either 'let the sea take him' or disown him in some way, but he didn't, he brought Tyrion up as the son that he is rather than getting rid of him or giving him another [false, concocted] identity, etc. Makes me really itch for the kill Tywin scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newstar Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I agree with the other posters. I think Tywin meant "I brought you up as my son" as opposed to getting rid of him through some non-murder method: pawning him off on a distant relative, shipping him off to some or other location under a fake identity, or similar. There were other ways of "disappearing" Tyrion that didn't involve murder, but Tywin raised Tyrion as his son instead.Agreed that it was a fantastic scene, though. A+++.Someone on Tumblr pointed out that Tyrion mentioned casually to Jon way back when that if he hadn't been born noble, he might have been left to die, blissfully unaware that the same thing almost happened to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aerys Blackfyre Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I agree with the other posters, and I'd like to add: what's the point in Tyrion not beeing a Lannister? I can see the point in Jon not being Ned's, but Tyrion not being Tywin's, it would just ruin the story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kernest Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I agree with the other posters, and I'd like to add: what's the point in Tyrion not beeing a Lannister? I can see the point in Jon not being Ned's, but Tyrion not being Tywin's, it would just ruin the storyIt's because people want the three heads of the dragon and they're desperately looking for clues/proof from things like what Tyrion looks like and what he dreams of and so forth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Fox Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I don't know if Tyrion being the third dragon/Targaryen would be incredibly cheesy or incredibly awesome in a high fantasy kind of way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallion That Mounts Texas Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 I knew that particular line in their discourse would fuel the fire of this ridiculous theory. For the last time....Tyrion is Tywin's son and no one else's.1. Abortion is readily available in the Seven Kingdoms in the form of moon tea. Lady Johanna would have taken it immediately to avoid a child of rape.2. Aerys was always in the company of his King's Guard. They keep the king's secrets from others, but not from each other. Barristan would have said something.3. There is no way Tywin would have left his wife without guards and servants. No way Aerys could have pulled it off without someone knowing.4. It was said that Tywin may have ruled the Seven Kingdom's, but at home he was ruled by his lady wife. Any woman capable of keeping Tywin's confidences was no mental weakling. No way she would have kept quiet.5. Tywin consistently uses the phrase "my son." He tells Tyrion that he is sending him to rule in King's Landing instead of Kevan or some bigger man, because Tyrion is his son. He tells Tyrion that the newly forged Valyrian Steel sword (Oathkeeper) is for his son (Jaime). When Tyrion shoots Tywin, he tells Tyrion that he is not his son. People use this phrasing all the time to disown disappointing children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stallion That Mounts Texas Posted June 11, 2013 Share Posted June 11, 2013 It's because people want the three heads of the dragon and they're desperately looking for clues/proof from things like what Tyrion looks like and what he dreams of and so forth...The sad part is that GRRM has consistently said that the third head need not be a Targaryen (meaning he almost certainly is not a Targaryen). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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