[Book Spoilers] The Ripple Effect

[Versiroth]

Sansa is married into the family that killed her own, everyone knows that, even Jaime would know it regardless of the fact he loves his brother. He made a promise to Cat and in the books he makes a point of wanting to keep it even though she's dead. You might be right and he'll do nothing, but in the show they made a big deal of the fact he now feels compelled to keep that promise and it's important to him. If they dropped it, it would be illogical and OOC character too.

Except in the book the situation is completely different, since he never has the chance to help Sansa at all. This is a different scenario Jaime is in.

So, you think it's in character for Jaime to try and smuggle his brothers wife away from him? A brother that Jaime was willing to risk all for when he defied Cersei and also freed from jail? Jaime doing something crazy on Sansa's behalf would ruin him as a character. Heck, him sending Brienne on her quest was partly to get rid of her. You guys who think Jaime is some sort of saint need to re-read the books.

Also, no, the situations aren't completely different. His vow was to return Catelyn's girls to her. In both the book and TV show, Catelyn is dead before Jaime arrives at Kings Landing. I'm just not seeing where you guys get that protecting Sansa was part of his vow or that it would some how be in character for Jaime to betray his family on behalf of Sansa and a dead Catelyn.

We'll see what happens, but I'd be willing to bet money that very little will change from the way the book handles Jaime/Sansa and how the show does it. You guys will all complain... because that's what you do... but, there won't be some new elaborate plot involving the two all because Jaime got there a few weeks earlier than he was supposed to.

[six]

So, you think it's in character for Jaime to try and smuggle his brothers wife away from him? A brother that Jaime was willing to risk all for when he defied Cersei and also freed from jail? Jaime doing something crazy on Sansa's behalf would ruin him as a character. Heck, him sending Brienne on her quest was partly to get rid of her. You guys who think Jaime is some sort of saint need to re-read the books.

Ok, first of all don't tell to re-read the books. Your interpretation is as valid as mine, thank you.

I really don't believe Jaime is a saint. He did and can do some horrible stuff. However, his character's journey is one in which he's trying to be the knight he wishes to be. This is not even my interpretation, is something that it's the core of Jaime as a character. This doesn't make him a saint, but just a flawed human being who is trying to redeem himself and change. As I believe he takes his vows and promises seriously now, I do think it matters to him.

BIB 1: Why? I really don't see why. It's not like Tyrion wants to be married to her.

BIB 2: That's so not true. If he wanted to get rid of her he would have just let her go, why give her a quest, the sword, his money? It's not like he owed her anything at that point,he saved her arse repeatedly, he got her arrested so Loras wouldn't fight her, when she was freed nothing stopped him from just sending her away and that's it. Also, in AFFC he thinks about both Brienne and the quest and he hopes she's all right and that she'll be successful. Jaime is not a saint, but you're exaggerating.

Also, no, the situations aren't completely different. His vow was to return Catelyn's girls to her. In both the book and TV show, Catelyn is dead before Jaime arrives at Kings Landing. I'm just not seeing where you guys get that protecting Sansa was part of his vow or that it would some how be in character for Jaime to betray his family on behalf of Sansa and a dead Catelyn.

It's different because by the time he gets to KL Sansa is not around and there's nothing he can do. In the show Sansa is still in KL so he could potentially do something.

As for betraying his family, the Lannisters from now will fall apart. That's what happens in the books. When he sends Brienne to look for Sansa he's going against Cersei.

We'll see what happens, but I'd be willing to bet money that very little will change from the way the book handles Jaime/Sansa and how the show does it.

And maybe you're right, but I hope you're not.

[Isy]

Yara - think her ventures to rescue Theon give her and Ramsey/Reek some plot next season, and act to take her away from the Iron Islands and have Uncle Euron steal the throne. I really am not faffed with no Kingsmoot.

Davos - I think he will be with Stannis up till the end of S4, at which point he will go via boat to try and persuade Wyman Manderly to join Stannis' cause, while Stannis rouses the hillmen of the Northlands

Jon/ygritte - I have seen some really interesting suggestions that Ygritte could be used as a replacement to Val, not as "Wildling Queen" but for an antagonist to Jon somehow. Honestly, I think it will play out as per the books because the drama of her death is too big a note to miss. A few have also suggested that there will be no wildling attack from the South, but as this is a battle scene involving relatively few numbers I don't see why they couldn't include this AND he main attack later. I envision episode 1, Jon stirs awake from his wounds and warns the NW of the imminent attack from the south which is unexpected, then in episode 2 Jon pushes through his injuries to lead the NW in repelling this attack and the death fo Ygritte. Episode 4 we see the NW fighting over how to deal with the imminent attack from the North, with some NW accussing Jon of treachery and others supporting him, while Jon pushes for action; I could see a cliffhanger ending as a horn sounds from the wall, then another meaning Wildlings: camera pans up and over wall to show the Wildling host. Episode 5 repelling the intial attacks, then Jon being sent out to parly, and then Stannis arrives. Ep6 on to end of season the repercussions, with Ep10 Jon voted LC.

Jamie-Brienne - said this in another thread that will work really well, with both petitioning to release Sansa, which Cersei will hate and Tywin will outright reject because Sansa is the key to the North. could see some great Brienne/Cersei and Brienne/Tyrell scenes, as well as a lot of dramatic scenes with Jamie/Cersei+Joff+tywin. Imagine once PW happens (probs Ep3) then plot will progress as books.

Roose/Tywin - Also from another thread some suggestion that if Roose attended the PW there could be some awesome Tywin/Roose scene. I also suggested that once Sansa escapes, Tywin and Roose could plot up fArya Stark as a new key to the North.

Gendry - I liked Gendry a lot in S1/S2. In s3 I wasn't so keen and would be happy not to see him until as a surprise guest star in S5 when he saves Brienne from bandits.

Martells - looking forward to seeing them on screen, and would be happy to see Arianne instead of Oberyn's paramour.

[boojam]

Not sure if this has been predicted, but there will be no assault on the wall, but an attempt to melt though it using the "biggest fire the north has ever seen". Battles are expensive and we are sympathetic to the wildlings, the fire replaces the horn as a threat to the wall itself. Mel uses her magic to reduce the flames and saves the wall. Perhaps Stannis' troops kills Ygritte in the attack, further cementing him as a villain in the eyes of the audience.

Not what I want to see, but would be cheaper than a huge army with mammoths and giants.

O man! Dave and Dan need some kind of blowout each season , I am supposing it's the usual episode 9.

Man foregoing mammoths and giants, I think after the success of Blackwater HBO will have open up the Wampum chests for VFX , that could be the highlight of the season, I should say the zinger!

[Cas Stark]

O man! Dave and Dan need some kind of blowout each season , I am supposing it's the usual episode 9.

Man foregoing mammoths and giants, I think after the success of Blackwater HBO will have open up the Wampum chests for VFX , that could be the highlight of the season, I should say the zinger!

I kind of doubt it. King's Landing was full of people the audience was vested in ...Sansa, Tyrion, Cersei, Varys, Bronn, Joff....and on the other side Stannis, Mel and Davos.

I can't imagine they would spend that much time next season building up the characters at the wall to give the battle the same epic sense.

It will be the siege of Meereen, because even though there aren't many people we're vested in there either...its Targaryen Jesus running things.

[Karmarni]

I have a feeling that Gendry will end up joining Brienne and Pod on their walkabout.

I could see this. And if that were to happen, I'd think Sansa as Alayne would wind up married to her bastard-Baratheon; the knight she always wanted and a 'blacksmith or a fat (remember King Bob's size?) innkeeper.'

The bigger issue I see with Jamie being present is that he will be at the wedding. In the book he does not believe that Tyrion did it so he helps him escape. If he is present it will be harder for him to not to believe that Tyrion is complicit in some way.

Yes, and would Jaime's reaction be to his son's death?

[WTFSalami]

My best guess, as of right now, is that the events will largely play out the same way they do in the book. We will be re-introduced to Dontos, he will offer to help Sansa escape the capitol, and she will agree. Purple Wedding happens the same as it does in the book, in the chaos Sansa slips out and then we get the Littlefinger reveal, yadda yadda.

The part that I believe will be changed, is that Jaime asks Brienne to accompany him through the Riverlands as he negotiates the surrenders of the last remaining Stark loyalists, which will give her an opportunity to ask of Sansa's whereabouts. Jaime is going to need a sparring partner, and with the actor that plays Ser Ilyn Payne sadly inflicted with terminal cancer, Brienne is the next best option. We get more Jaime/Brienne, Brienne gets to look for Sansa, and they can both come across The Brotherhood together, which will give Lady Stoneheart a justifiable reason to think that both of them broke their vows to her.

[silentwanderer]

Jon/ygritte - I have seen some really interesting suggestions that Ygritte could be used as a replacement to Val, not as "Wildling Queen" but for an antagonist to Jon somehow.

I'm just glad she made it out of this season alive.

More would be tempting fate.

The part that I believe will be changed, is that Jaime asks Brienne to accompany him through the Riverlands as he negotiates the surrenders of the last remaining Stark loyalists, which will give her an opportunity to ask of Sansa's whereabouts. Jaime is going to need a sparring partner, and with the actor that plays Ser Ilyn Payne sadly inflicted with terminal cancer, Brienne is the next best option.

It never really made sense to separate them if they were only going to go the same way.

Perhaps the show could fix that so the characters could make their journey together.

[Newstar]

I could see this. And if that were to happen, I'd think Sansa as Alayne would wind up married to her bastard-Baratheon; the knight she always wanted and a 'blacksmith or a fat (remember King Bob's size?) innkeeper.'

It was "fat-faced innkeep," GRRM's sly allusion to Hot Pie, just as "burly blacksmith" was GRRM's sly allusion to Gendry. If you think this passage foreshadows Sansa/Gendry, I'd say it equally foreshadows Sansa/Hot Pie. Ha! A pairing for the ages.

[Frey-A-La-Mode]

My best guess, as of right now, is that the events will largely play out the same way they do in the book. We will be re-introduced to Dontos, he will offer to help Sansa escape the capitol, and she will agree. Purple Wedding happens the same as it does in the book, in the chaos Sansa slips out and then we get the Littlefinger reveal, yadda yadda.

The part that I believe will be changed, is that Jaime asks Brienne to accompany him through the Riverlands as he negotiates the surrenders of the last remaining Stark loyalists, which will give her an opportunity to ask of Sansa's whereabouts. Jaime is going to need a sparring partner, and with the actor that plays Ser Ilyn Payne sadly inflicted with terminal cancer, Brienne is the next best option. We get more Jaime/Brienne, Brienne gets to look for Sansa, and they can both come across The Brotherhood together, which will give Lady Stoneheart a justifiable reason to think that both of them broke their vows to her.

That's really sad about Wilko Johnson (Illyn Payne actor), I wonder if they'll try to replace him or just write his character out? Most likely the latter, as he's not that pivotal going forward. Margaret John (Old Nan actress) died between Seasons 1 and 2 and they just didn't include her in Season 2, out of respect. I would not complain if we got more Jaime Brienne scenes in upcoming seasons. Their chemistry is gold.

[7V3N]

Why do they need a kings moot at all? Honestly, the Iron Islands subplot kind of sucked in the books. I can't imagine non-book readers will enjoy time being wasted on it. I really do hope they scrap it. The show is already convoluted enough with the arcs they're currently running and they'll need to add in Dorne eventually.

The kingsmoot was a plot tool to set up Euron as the leader of the ironborn. It gave us some culture, but nothing for plot except set-up. Instead, if we get Yara doing her Theon-mission she will be long gone, on the wrong end of the continent. She will have no way of making it back to oppose Euron. Victarion is new, and likely to be less fleshed out as a character, so we will probably not see him oppose Euron. There aren't any other candidates for considering. Aeron's role could be cut down, since his problem is that Euron is godless.

Instead, they make his arrival through dialog on Yara's ship, hearing that Balon fell to his death, and the next day Euron arrived. This is all dependent on if they want to make Euron a big character. He could be a big one if they wanted to really expand his role. They could have him arrive and sit on the SSC, and when somebody raises a word, he shows the hall his dragon horn and promises to conquer Westeros by taking control of Dany's dragons. It would not be hard to fit in there. The real important part is showing that it is no coincidence that he arrived right after Balon's death, and that he is unopposed as ruler by the end of his introduction or, if they choose to include it, the moot.

[7V3N]

I'm just glad she made it out of this season alive.

More would be tempting fate.

It never really made sense to separate them if they were only going to go the same way.

Perhaps the show could fix that so the characters could make their journey together.

Their roles demanded it. Jaime had to serve as Lord Commander of the Kingsguard, Brienne had to find Sansa.

[7V3N]

My best guess, as of right now, is that the events will largely play out the same way they do in the book. We will be re-introduced to Dontos, he will offer to help Sansa escape the capitol, and she will agree. Purple Wedding happens the same as it does in the book, in the chaos Sansa slips out and then we get the Littlefinger reveal, yadda yadda.

The part that I believe will be changed, is that Jaime asks Brienne to accompany him through the Riverlands as he negotiates the surrenders of the last remaining Stark loyalists, which will give her an opportunity to ask of Sansa's whereabouts. Jaime is going to need a sparring partner, and with the actor that plays Ser Ilyn Payne sadly inflicted with terminal cancer, Brienne is the next best option. We get more Jaime/Brienne, Brienne gets to look for Sansa, and they can both come across The Brotherhood together, which will give Lady Stoneheart a justifiable reason to think that both of them broke their vows to her.

It could play out that way, but given how they went with Dontos in season 2--the actor was unhappy because they cut all but one of his scenes--and have made Littlefinger more direct as Sansa's saviour, I think they will keep that how it is--Sansa knowing Littlefinger is the one who will take her away.

[mcbrigno]

IN REGARDS TO JAIME AND BRIENNE...

I actually think it will play out very close to how it does in the books.

-Jaime/Brienne arrive and learn about the deaths of Robb and Catelyn, whereas in the books they heard about it at an inn during their travel.

-Loras sees Brienne, attempts to kill her for the "murder of Renly", Jaime stops him, Loras demands that she be arrested, and Jaime sees that she is.

Thus, Brienne likely in prison until the PW has happened and can't do anything about Sansa until Joffrey is dead and Sansa is gone.

In the meantime, we'll likely get some new interesting and character developing different scenes with Jaime, Cersei, Tyrion, Tywin, and Loras. This will likely start to show Jaime's changing feelings towards Cersei, his return to command of the Kingsguard, and his appointment of Loras to the Kingsguard (which he will do to save Cersei from the marriage).

We will have to wait and see what Jaime may or may not do in regards to trying to free Sansa himself in the meantime, but I expect the PW to happen in the early to middle of the season (which gives enough time to introduce Mace Tyrell and Oberyn Martell). Sansa may not trust Jaime or may decide she has nowhere left to go. I expect Margaery will play some part in this as well. Regardless, Jaime may (perhaps with Margaery's help) come up with an additional plan to try and free Sansa himself but by the time he is able to execute it, she will have gone after the wedding. Thus, he will release Brienne (with Loras realizing it was Stannis after questioning her) and send her off to find Sansa.

Thus, it will likely still be very accurate to the book in the grand scheme of things.

[Prince of Dragonstone]

I actually like the changes in Gendry's storyline and particularly like that it frees him up for the producers to do whatever they'd like with his character. I know GRRM is a main consultant with the overall storyline so if they have his approval then it must be okay since I'm sure they'll eventually sync Show!Gendry up with whatever GRRM is planning for Book!Gendry's future.

[7V3N]

I actually like the changes in Gendry's storyline and particularly like that it frees him up for the producers to do whatever they'd like with his character. I know GRRM is a main consultant with the overall storyline so if they have his approval then it must be okay since I'm sure they'll eventually sync Show!Gendry up with whatever GRRM is planning for Book!Gendry's future.

Consultant does not necessarily mean he approved everything. It just means that, from time to time, (almost exclusively when asked) GRRM will tell D&D certain things about the story or characters so that they can better interpret (or whatever) the book into the TV series. GRRM's approval is not at all required.

[Springs09]

Either way it pans out, we will get to see more Westeros Wormhole travelling with Yara apparently sailing to the Dreadfort and then likely sailing back to Deepwood Motte in season 5.

I really don't like what they've been doing lately, and that's neglecting the good story to make up storylines and scenes to give actors more screen time. So many good story developments or character developments could have been used instead of pointless scenes just to give Tyrion, Theon, Littlefinger, Margaery, Melisandre, Cersei etc more time on screen.

[7V3N]

Either way it pans out, we will get to see more Westeros Wormhole travelling with Yara apparently sailing to the Dreadfort and then likely sailing back to Deepwood Motte in season 5.

I really don't like what they've been doing lately, and that's neglecting the good story to make up storylines and scenes to give actors more screen time. So many good story developments or character developments could have been used instead of pointless scenes just to give Tyrion, Theon, Littlefinger, Margaery, Melisandre, Cersei etc more time on screen.

In some ways I agree, but then I love those extra scenes with Roose Bolton, Tywin Lannister, and the Queen of Thorns, for example. I think they can do it, so long as it serves the plot and the actor(s) can pull it off.

[Springs09]

I was looking forward to season 4 as well, since I thought it would revolve around only a few storylines since some have ended:

- Tyrion's trial (Tyrion, Jaime, Cersei, Tywin)

- Sansa/Littlefinger in the Vale

- Jon/Sam at the wall against the wildlings

- Arya/The Hound

- Daenerys in Meereen

- Bran travelling north

Now it seems they are going to add several more so they can jam in a billion scenes per ep again. Honestly why do they feel the need they need to pack in so many characters into each episode? It makes it feel like each character gets about 3 minutes development and nothing overall happens in the episode. Now in season 4 we might get this:

- Stannis' great journey to the wall

- Davos asking men to fight for Stannis

- More Theon at the Dreadfort while Yara tries to rescue him

- Gendry in King's Landing

[WTFSalami]

Why do people keep saying that Loras is going to accuse Brienne of Renly's murder and try to fight her?

Does nobody remember when he specifically said that he doesn't think Brienne did it? How stupid would that be of the writers to forget that?